A Science of Wu Wei?

[Marblehead]

And, of course, as always, buyer beware.

 

[OldDog]

I think you really have to understand something of what Slingerland is all about. In interview, he has talked about the arc of his career and where he is sees it going. He is open about the fact that much of his recent work has revolved around comparative religion. In documenting various religious ideas and practices, he is searching for common themes and parallels in a very broad sense.

 

What I heard him say was that there is one theme his group has identified that is best described by the daoist concept of wu wei. So, he has appropriated ... probably by virtue of his academic training ... the term wu wei to describe this theme, which in his eyes is more universal than exclusively daoist. No doubt, daoists might take issue with that. 

 

I, too, initially felt he was a little bit of a new-agee opportunist. But it turns out, that was not completely of his making. Again in interview, he speaks of having disagreement with his publisher over how his book was presented to the public and demonstrated believable regret over that. So, it seems the interest of the publisher to make money prevailed over his academic preference. Unfortunately, once having been accused if being a new age opportunist ... justly or not ... the label stuck.

 

Such is what happens with name calling ... the reasoned discussion is forgotten and the name sticks. We should resist the urge to cast labels and speak in terms of absolute meaning and exclusivism.

 

Just a humble opinion.

 

[Taoist Texts]

Now ye olde gentlemen and ladies, whoever can be bothered with a little experiment

to go to this page

https://chinesepod.com/tools/pronunciation/section/5

and click this button

Does the resulting sound as duh to you?

 

 

 

[wandelaar]

To add: much of Slingerland's scholarly articles are free:  https://eslingerland.arts.ubc.ca/articles-chapters/

 

Further he has free video's to watch:  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcWbHnccEXLe9v9JDu6XUbQ

 

And large parts of his popular book Trying Not to Try can be read for free on Google Books:  https://books.google.nl/books?id=sTG0AAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover

 

So the idea that the guy is a crook and is only in it for the money is simply unfounded. You can see for yourself whether or not you like his approach, and if you don't than just don't buy his books.

 

Further Taoist Texts simply fails to see that the Chuang tzu is a literary and philosophical work. That the writer(s) didn't use the characters 无为 in the stories of the cook and the woodcarver doesn't prove that the phenomenon of wu wei is not described. But let me stop - you can't win from somebody who doesn't get it.

 

Edited November 12, 2018 by wandelaar

[wandelaar]

Yet another interesting article on flow and wu wei:

 

https://biblio.ugent.be/publication/677491/file/6819079

[Taoist Texts]

1 hour ago, wandelaar said:

That the writer(s) didn't use the characters 无为 in the stories of the cook and the woodcarver doesn't prove that the phenomenon of wu wei is not described.  

what would you accept as a proof?

[Stosh]

6 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

1. take a Chinese word wu-wei, declare that it means whatever you want it to mean

2. take a story from Zhuang-zi where Zhuang-zi does not say the story is about wu-wei, declare that you know better than Zhuang-zi what the Zhuang-zi story is about and the story is actually about wu-wei (despite there is no wu-wei in it)

3. sell books and lectures on wu-wei, PROFIT!

 

What can one say? A nice job if you can get it.

(Chuckling) I get it that you regard it that way, but thats only because you have put faith in a bunch of folks who have it all bunged up. 

The sentiments of Chuang are just those of a man, not a god, not a necromancer of secret esoteric arts. How do I know that? ... well for one thing thats all fanciful yarn spinning, that has happened in all cultures. 

Recognizing that he has no magic powers, just like we do not , means the man is expressing what he believes makes for a virtuous life. He believed he had found the common thread which was the basis for virtue, either as an individual or as a member of an established tradition. Whatever he discussed , no matter which scale  of social interplay or context, the theme is still the same, and whether you call it wu wei or dao or the way of heaven ..is moot. 

imo.

[Rocky Lionmouth]

Hmmm. I never knew flow was supposed to be exhausting, but then again i have ADD so i fall into hyperfocus quite naturally and shed most of the unnecessary crap and be at one with the task.

Thats what i call flow. Work for six hours straight, break for food and some air, then put four more hours in, without experiencing a comedown or mood saings or whatever. Effortless.

What has been discussed as flow previously is what i call ”doubling down to haul ass” and i avoid doing it because its only needed when you REALLY need to get a job done within a certain time frame or to a certain point without following intuition, energy or body. Eight hours non-stop is doable but it requires active cognitive focus to stay with it and its hard work. That will leave me spent for two days after.

 

Sure i do get grumpy if interrupted while in my effortless flow, it takes a lot of energy to stop, reassemble a social persona that is functional and verbal to say ”sure, i’ll have a cup if you’re making coffee, thanks”. Hearing the input is effortless, but interacting by any socially acceptable standards is a major reroute because the offer of coffee is so trivial and subjective that it just sucks.

Most of us with ADHD/ADD can do the effortless flow thing like its nothing, some of us can haul ass but it requires training.

Now you’re telling me what others call flow is substantially different on energetic levels? I’ve been wu-weiing for as long as i can remember in that case... who would have thunk?

 

I should be in the write-books-and-give-talks business, i could do honest stuff even. Too bad you’d have to be neurologically dysfunctional to truly appreciate and use the stuff but that could be my ”esoteric” stuff.

 

”How do you reach such a state Guru Rocky?”

”Well you need to actually be born and live in the right conditions to develop a mental disorder that pisses off you parents, teachers, bosses, partners and it would help if your parents turn out to have the same neurocognitive dysfunction too. Just make sure you dont try to fit in and play the game everyone else is trying to win, you’ll probably kill yourself if you get caught in that.”

”What?”

”Be reborn one last time as a fairly resilient ADHD child and then you can reach liberation or maybe your kids can, whatever. Lets go look at cats without trying to make sense of it now, you’re too cognitively coherent already.”

 

I’m gonna be SO rich!

Edited November 14, 2018 by Rocky Lionmouth

[wandelaar]

That's another thing to explore: how do flow and ADHD relate to each other.

 

Edited November 14, 2018 by wandelaar

[wandelaar]

https://medium.com/present-tense/finding-the-flow-why-hyperfocus-is-not-the-superpower-of-adhd-and-flow-is-something-we-should-b43b1ec5d4fa

 

https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-ways-I-can-trigger-my-ADHD-state-of-flow

 

https://www.thecut.com/2016/07/when-adult-adhd-looks-something-like-flow.html

 

Looks like research on the possible relation between flow and ADHD is only just starting.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

I am sorry to be so long getting back to this, but in looking for online references for the subjects of the following post, li and qi, I did some extra research and came up with some fascinating quotes from Zhuangzi about li, including its use in the story the Butcher which has been cited in relation to “flow”. I have decided to post the following as an introduction and then will post a discussion of these quotes from Zhuangzi to show how the concept of li is used in the book attributed to him, and possibly by the “great man” himself.

 

One of the disagreements that has arisen here is one of whether Wuwei is the same as “flow”. I don't think that they are the same and will argue this in terms of what I have l have already proposed, that of modeling Wuwei using Aristotle's four causes which will show a clear line of demarcation between Wuwei and “flow”. This will be further examined by references quotes from both the Dao De Jing and the Zhuangzi, but first I need to do what I mentioned before of taking a few characters from out quotes and examining them in more detail, in the process I will introduce two of Aristotle's Four Causes, matter and form. In Greek matter is called hyle and form, morphe, this leads to one of the fundamental characteristics of Aristotle's theory, Hylomorphism. The two characters which I will cull from what we have quoted so far are:

 

理, lǐ which roughly corresponds to Aristotle's Formal Cause

 

and

 

氣, qì which roughly corresponds to Aristotle's Material Cause

 

While just about everyone here is familiar with Qi, very few know much about Li, which, depending on context can have meanings like:

 

Quote

texture / grain (of wood) / inner essence / intrinsic order / reason / logic / truth / science / natural science (esp. physics) / to manage / to pay attention to / to run (affairs) / to handle / to put in order / to tidy up (MDBG online Chinese/English dictionary)

 

The common usages of qi as energy or bio-energy are at best a small part of the meanings of qi, again depending on context, which can include accepted two and three character combinations with qi, that are part of traditional usage. The following should give some idea of the range:

 

Quote

gas / air / smell / weather / to make angry / to annoy / to get angry / vital energy / qi (MDBG online Chinese/English dictionary)

 

For our purposes the tradition usage that is most useful is that of a general “substance” which is a basic constituent of all manifest things, and thus is similar to Aristotle's concept of matter. The combination of li as “intrinsic order” and qi as an underlying substance which is ordered by li, has a rough equivalence to Aristotle's form and matter combination as the basis of “physical” objects.

 

A modern author commenting on this use of qi as “hyle/matter” had this to say:

 

Quote

To the early Chinese naturalists this term seemed to bear some resemblance to what we now call “matter-energy” . . . (Peng Yoke Ho, Li, Qi and Shu An Introduction to Science and Civilization in China, p. 3)

 

Which is accurate but then follows it up with a comparison to “pneuma” which is in a sense misleading and reinforces the tendency to think of qi solely as some sort of bio-energy when in fact it is as much at the root of the electrical phenomena running the devices upon which I am typing this and on which people are reading it, as it does the electrical phenomena taking place between my brain and fingers as I type this and the electrical phenomena happening between the eyes and brain of the reader.

 

So, the reader can look forward to some interesting quotes from Zhuanzi about li in my next post.

 

ZYD

 

 

 

Edit: Minor edit for clarity about Wuwei and "flow" in the second paragraph.

[wandelaar]

Thank you! I just bought Peng Yoke Ho's Li, Qi and Shu: An Introduction to Science and Civilization in China a few weeks ago. I look forward to your next post.

[KuroShiro]

5 hours ago, Zhongyongdaoist said:

Which is accurate but then follows it up with a comparison to “pneuma” which is in a sense misleading

 

Are you saying Pneuma is not the same as Qi, Prana?

 

[Zhongyongdaoist]

20 hours ago, KuroShiro said:

On 11/15/2018 at 9:18 AM, Zhongyongdaoist said:

Which is accurate but then follows it up with a comparison to “pneuma” which is in a sense misleading

 

Are you saying Pneuma is not the same as Qi, Prana?

 

No, I am saying that Pneuma is not the same thing as "matter-energy", and to my knowledge has never had a usage like hyle, one meaning of which is "wood", as the universal substance that is differentiated by morphe/forms.  On the other hand qi has had just such a usage when used in the context of li.

 

Look up pneumatics and pneumatology and then come back here and tell us all what pneuma is.

 

In each of these words "pneuma" means very different things, in pneumatics it is ordinary air as the subject of a branch of engineering that produces such things as pneumatic drills, and in the other it is the Holy Spirit in Christian Theology, and in neither of these is pneuma the same as qi and prana.  The same is true of qi which is why I said:

 

On 11/15/2018 at 9:18 AM, Zhongyongdaoist said:

The common usages of qi as energy or bio-energy are at best a small part of the meanings of qi, again depending on context, which can include accepted two and three character combinations with qi, that are part of traditional usage. The following should give some idea of the range:

 

Quote

gas / air / smell / weather / to make angry / to annoy / to get angry / vital energy / qi (MDBG online Chinese/English dictionary)

(emphasis added, ZYD)

 

The meaning of the character 氣, qì, will vary depending on context.  Used to make up a word such as qigong which has a rough equivalence to pranayama, then the "vital energy" meaning above is meant, and then qi refers to something similar to prana, pneuma and spirit interpreted as vital energy, however used within a discussion of 理, lǐ  and 氣, qì, as elements of a cosmology, then to equate it with pneuma in the sense of vital energy is misleading, its Greek equivalent would be hyle, or "matter" in the Aristotelian sense of the fundamental substance which in combination with li as form/morphe results in the world visible to, and experienced by sense including the phenomena which we ordinarily describe as "matter" and "energy", but which are complementary manifestations of an underlying "matter-energy" as primordial substance.  In this cosmological sense qi combined with the right li, would give rise to the aspects of "physical" energy which I mentioned as being the electrical activity of the neurons involved in typing this and mixed with another li would give rise to "vital energy" experienced in qigong, but qi in this cosmological sense is not reducible to "vital energy", which is why said that the discussion was misleading.  I will be explaining all of this in more detail as I continue in these posts.

 

ZYD

[KuroShiro]

16 hours ago, Zhongyongdaoist said:

 

No, I am saying that Pneuma is not the same thing as "matter-energy", and to my knowledge has never had a usage like hyle, one meaning of which is "wood", as the universal substance that is differentiated by morphe/forms.  On the other hand qi has had just such a usage when used in the context of li.

 

Look up pneumatics and pneumatology and then come back here and tell us all what pneuma is.

 

In each of these words "pneuma" means very different things, in pneumatics it is ordinary air as the subject of a branch of engineering that produces such things as pneumatic drills, and in the other it is the Holy Spirit in Christian Theology, and in neither of these is pneuma the same as qi and prana.  The same is true of qi which is why I said:

 

 

The meaning of the character 氣, qì, will vary depending on context.  Used to make up a word such as qigong which has a rough equivalence to pranayama, then the "vital energy" meaning above is meant, and then qi refers to something similar to prana, pneuma and spirit interpreted as vital energy, however used within a discussion of 理, lǐ  and 氣, qì, as elements of a cosmology, then to equate it with pneuma in the sense of vital energy is misleading, its Greek equivalent would be hyle, or "matter" in the Aristotelian sense of the fundamental substance which in combination with li as form/morphe results in the world visible to, and experienced by sense including the phenomena which we ordinarily describe as "matter" and "energy", but which are complementary manifestations of an underlying "matter-energy" as primordial substance.  In this cosmological sense qi combined with the right li, would give rise to the aspects of "physical" energy which I mentioned as being the electrical activity of the neurons involved in typing this and mixed with another li would give rise to "vital energy" experienced in qigong, but qi in this cosmological sense is not reducible to "vital energy", which is why said that the discussion was misleading.  I will be explaining all of this in more detail as I continue in these posts.

 

ZYD

 

Thank you.

 

I've just seen this from a Xingyiquan site:

Qi is the life essence, or energy, that enlivens all things. The concept of qi is found throughout Chinese traditional arts, ranging from medicine and acupuncture to gong fu and feng shui. Qi is divided into two types: cosmic qi and human qi. Cosmic qi encompasses air, movement, gas, weather, and force, while human qi implies breath, manner, and energy. The two types of cannot be clearly separated; in fact human qi is strongly influenced by cosmic qi.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

On 11/17/2018 at 3:55 AM, KuroShiro said:

Thank you.

 

You're welcome.

 

Now let's look at the story of the Butcher:
 

Quote

 

2	養生主:	庖丁為文惠君解牛，手之所觸，肩之所倚，足之所履，膝之所踦，砉然嚮然，奏刀騞然，莫不中音。合於《桑林》之舞，乃中《經首》之會。文惠君曰：「譆！善哉！技蓋至此乎？」庖丁釋刀對曰：「臣之所好者道也，進乎技矣。始臣之解牛之時，所見无非牛者。三年之後，未嘗見全牛也。方今之時，臣以神遇，而不以目視，官知止而神欲行。依乎天理，批大郤，導大窾，因其固然。技經肯綮之未嘗，而況大軱乎！良庖歲更刀，割也；族庖月更刀，折也。今臣之刀十九年矣，所解數千牛矣，而刀刃若新發於硎。彼節者有間，而刀刃者无厚，以无厚入有間，恢恢乎其於遊刃必有餘地矣，是以十九年而刀刃若新發於硎。雖然，每至於族，吾見其難為，怵然為戒，視為止，行為遲。動刀甚微，謋然已解，如土委地。提刀而立，為之四顧，為之躊躇滿志，善刀而藏之。」文惠君曰：「善哉！吾聞庖丁之言，得養生焉。」
	Nourishing the Lord of...:	His cook was cutting up an ox for the ruler Wen Hui. Whenever he applied his hand, leaned forward with his shoulder, planted his foot, and employed the pressure of his knee, in the audible ripping off of the skin, and slicing operation of the knife, the sounds were all in regular cadence. Movements and sounds proceeded as in the dance of 'the Mulberry Forest' and the blended notes of the King Shou.' The ruler said, 'Ah! Admirable! That your art should have become so perfect!' (Having finished his operation), the cook laid down his knife, and replied to the remark, 'What your servant loves is the method of the Dao, something in advance of any art. When I first began to cut up an ox, I saw nothing but the (entire) carcase. After three years I ceased to see it as a whole. Now I deal with it in a spirit-like manner, and do not look at it with my eyes. The use of my senses is discarded, and my spirit acts as it wills. Observing the natural lines, (my knife) slips through the great crevices and slides through the great cavities, taking advantage of the facilities thus presented. My art avoids the membranous ligatures, and much more the great bones. A good cook changes his knife every year; (it may have been injured) in cutting - an ordinary cook changes his every month - (it may have been) broken. Now my knife has been in use for nineteen years; it has cut up several thousand oxen, and yet its edge is as sharp as if it had newly come from the whetstone. There are the interstices of the joints, and the edge of the knife has no (appreciable) thickness; when that which is so thin enters where the interstice is, how easily it moves along! The blade has more than room enough. Nevertheless, whenever I come to a complicated joint, and see that there will be some difficulty, I proceed anxiously and with caution, not allowing my eyes to wander from the place, and moving my hand slowly. Then by a very slight movement of the knife, the part is quickly separated, and drops like (a clod of) earth to the ground. Then standing up with the knife in my hand, I look all round, and in a leisurely manner, with an air of satisfaction, wipe it clean, and put it in its sheath.' The ruler Wen Hui said, 'Excellent! I have heard the words of my cook, and learned from them the nourishment of (our) life.'

 

The important characters here are 神, shén, referred to above as "my spirit" and the combination 天理, tiānlǐ, rendered as "the natural lines", it is a combination that occurs many times in the Zhuangzi, probably enough to be considered a technical term, rendering tian as heaven and li inherent order we have an interesting combination in which indicates the idea that the inherent order derives from "heaven".  Taken altogether it would seem to indicate that the "method of the Dao" involves discarding the senses and using the perceptual powers of the personal shen in order to perceive the "lines" of a pattern originating in heaven.

 

Now let's look at another quote, this one will make the relation between the li and the physical body as perceived by the senses clearer:

 

Quote

8	天地:	泰初有無，無有無名，一之所起，有一而未形。物得以生，謂之德；未形者有分，且然無間，謂之命；留動而生物，物成生理，謂之形；形體保神，各有儀則，謂之性。性修反德，德至同於初。同乃虛，虛乃大。合喙鳴，喙鳴合，與天地為合。其合緡緡，若愚若昏，是謂玄德，同乎大順。
	Heaven and Earth:	In the Grand Beginning (of all things) there was nothing in all the vacancy of space; there was nothing that could be named. It was in this state that there arose the first existence - the first existence, but still without bodily shape. From this things could then be produced, (receiving) what we call their proper character. That which had no bodily shape was divided; and then without intermission there was what we call the process of conferring. (The two processes) continuing in operation, things were produced. As things were completed, there were produced the distinguishing lines of each, which we call the bodily shape. That shape was the body preserving in it the spirit, and each had its peculiar manifestation, which we call its Nature. When the Nature has been cultivated, it returns to its proper character; and when that has been fully reached, there is the same condition as at the Beginning. That sameness is pure vacancy, and the vacancy is great. It is like the closing of the beak and silencing the singing (of a bird). That closing and silencing is like the union of heaven and earth (at the beginning). The union, effected, as it is, might seem to indicate stupidity or darkness, but it is what we call the 'mysterious quality' (existing at the beginning); it is the same as the Grand Submission (to the Natural Course)

.

Here we want to look at another character and its meaning, 形, xíng, appearance, look, as well as another combination, 

生理, shēnglǐ, with shēng, life, living, lifetime; birth combined with li and which in modern dictionaries is translated as physiology.  This last is extremely important and would indicate li or morphe, principle/form which is the source of a unified function of cosmic and human qi in the coordination of the body's harnessing of such cosmic functions as the electrical phenomena of the neurons in the brain and nervous system and the "spiritual" function of human qi and ultimately possibly the potentials of qigong and related practices.

 

These are relatively long quotes so I am going to post this as it is and follow with a final quote and some commentary on all three, though I find the above quotes very suggestive and hope others find them interesting.

 

ZYD

 

 

 

Edit: Changed spacing in first quote to remove blank space in it to make the whole post more compact.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

With the following quote I will draw my beginning discussion of li as formal causes to a close so I can move on to how this relates to non action and flow, and why they are different:
 

Quote

2	刻意:	故曰：夫恬惔寂寞，虛無無為，此天地之平而道德之質也。
	Ingrained Ideas:	Hence it is said, 'Placidity, indifference, silence, quietude, absolute vacancy, and non-action: these are the qualities which maintain the level of heaven and earth and are the substance of the Dao and its characteristics.'
		故曰：聖人休，休焉則平易矣，平易則恬惔矣。平易恬惔，則憂患不能入，邪氣不能襲，故其德全而神不虧。
		In accordance with this it is said, 'The sage is entirely restful, and so (his mind) is evenly balanced and at ease. This even balance and ease appears in his placidity and indifference. In this state of even balance and ease, of placidity and indifference, anxieties and evils do not find access to him, no depraving influence can take him by surprise; his virtue is complete, and his spirit continues unimpaired.'
		故曰：聖人之生也天行，其死也物化；靜而與陰同德，動而與陽同波；不為福先，不為禍始；感而後應，迫而後動，不得已而後起。去知與故，循天之理，故無天災，無物累，無人非，無鬼責。其生若浮，其死若休；不思慮，不豫謀；光矣而不耀，信矣而不期；其寢不夢，其覺無憂；其神純粹，其魂不罷。虛無恬惔，乃合天德。
		Therefore it is (also) said, 'The life of the sage is (like) the action of Heaven; and his death is the transformation common to (all) things. In his stillness his virtue is the same as that of the Yin, and in movement his diffusiveness is like that of the Yang. He does not take the initiative in producing either happiness or calamity. He responds to the influence acting on him, and moves as he feels the pressure. He rises to act only when he is obliged to do so. He discards wisdom and the memories of the past; he follows the lines of his Heaven (-given nature); and therefore he suffers no calamity from Heaven, no involvement from things, no blame from men, and no reproof from the spirits of the dead. His life seems to float along; his death seems to be a resting. He does not indulge any anxious doubts; he does not lay plans beforehand. His light is without display; his good faith is without previous arrangement. His sleep is untroubled by dreams; his waking is followed by no sorrows. His spirit is guileless and pure; his soul is not subject to weariness. Vacant and without self-assertion, placid and indifferent, he agrees with the virtue of Heaven.'

 

Aside from the use of li as "Heaven (-given nature)", the very title of this chapter, 刻意, rendered as "Ingrained Ideas" has some connection with li and a meaning I mentioned previously as "grain", like grain in wood, though in one of he online resources on it, it was mentioned as the grain in jade which allowed one to to carve the jade according to its inherent structure, just as the butcher carved up the ox according to it "ingrained" structure, and thus accomplished it effortlessly according to the "method of the Dao".  So to look a little closer at it:

 

刻意, kèyì

 

刻, kè, carve, engrave

意, yì, thought, idea, opinion; think

 

What interests me about this is its possible connection to the notion of innate ideas and there relevance to epistemology.  On a more esoteric level, the notion of a "heaven" given nature echoes ideas in Neiye, passages in the Confucian Mencius and ideas in the Zhongyong ("Doctrine of the Mean").  Whether these echoes are significant or not remains to be seen.

 

Finally I will finish this part of my discussion with this:

 

 

Quote

5. Correlative Cosmology

Xuanxue was important for establishing much of the metaphysical vocabulary used in later Chinese philosophy. One of the most important terms is li 理, which in its original use was a verb for laying out borders according to the contours of the land, or for carving jade according to its own patterns. Both Wang Bi and Guo Xiang use li as a technical term—for Wang Bi li refers to the patterns of coherence represented by the hexagrams of the Yi Jing, while for Guo Xiang li refers to patterns of differentiation that spontaneously arise in the world (Ziporyn 2014: 137–84). Li was later used by Chinese Buddhists to refer to emptiness and by Neo-Confucians to refer to patterns of coherence. The latter will be discussed further below.  (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Metaphysics in Chinese Philosophy, Emphasis added, and link to Wikipedia article on Xuanxue for a quick overview, ZYD)

 

I find this interesting because the YiJing is a formal system, basically a set of symbols that are linked in complex, but more or less well formed system of logical relationships.  Seeing the hexagrams as li and thus as formal causes active in the universe gives a useful way to think about the traditional uses of the Yijing in divination, meditation and ritual.

 

ZYD

[Zhongyongdaoist]

While looking for online sources with which to illustrate my points here I came upon this abstract of an article called, "The Classical Daoist Concept of LI 理 (Pattern) and Early Chinese Cosmology".

 

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This study traces the origins and development of the concept of Li 理 (Pattern) in early Chinese Cosmology, locating its foundation in the root metaphor derived from the natural lines or veins along which a block of jade can be split by a skilled artisan. From this relatively concrete image, li comes to eventually represent in Daoist cosmology the more abstract quality of the natural patterns or structures within the universe along which all phenomena move and interact with one another without the interference of human beings. After examining how early Confucian works emphasize the more abstract and derivative qualities of order and structure, we see that the likely Yangist authors in the Lüshi chunqiu return to the original metaphor of veins in jade but, instead, apply this to the veins through which the qi circulates through the human body.

We then see how this metaphor is expanded beyond the human body in the classical Daoist texts to come to represent the natural guidelines both within all phenomena and those that guide their movements within the cosmos. Within phenomena these include such varied things as the structures for the generation and expression of emotions within human beings as well as the natural lines along which the butcher's chopper passes in order to cleave oxen. In Daoist inner cultivation literature it is these patterns with which sages accord so that their spontaneous actions are completely in harmony with the greater forces of the cosmos. Only after long practice of the apophatic contemplative methods that include concentrating on one breathing and emptying out the normal contents of consciousness can the sage be able to accomplish this goal of “taking no action yet leaving nothing undone.” Thus the concept of li as these natural guidelines comes to serve as an explanation for why this classical Daoist dictum is effective in the world.

Finally, the Huainanzi contains the most sophisticated and sustained usages of the concept of li as the natural patterns and guidelines in the cosmos arguing that complying with them is the key to a genuinely contented life.

 

Because of its references to two important early works the Huainanzi, with which at least some Dao Bums will have familiarity and the earlier but no less important Lüshi chunqiu, a less well known work unless you have done fair amount of study in late Warring States and early Imperial Chinese philosophy, I decided to tract it down so that I could read it.  I finally did and it turns out to have some very important things to contribute to this topic, and I had to think about how and where to discuss them.  I have decided that it is best to finish my discussion of Aristotle's Four causes and how they can be used to model and differentiate between "nonaction" and "being in the flow".  We have already met two of these causes the formal and material in the analogies that exist between li and qi and form and matter in the Aristotelian sense of matter and not the usual modern sense of matter which is derived from the Seventeenth Century revival of Epicurean cosmology and its adaptation by such thinkers as Rene Descartes, and Issac Newton and John Locke, each of whom contributed, albeit unwittingly to the materialism that was formulated in the late Eighteenth Century and became the standard Western cultural meme of the Nineteenth and most of the Twentieth Centuries.

 

So in my next post I will introduce the third of the four causes the "efficient" cause, which does not mean efficient in the sense that the related "efficiency" would indicate, but the "making" cause like the third definition given at Dictionary.com, "producing an effect, as a cause; causative", and to the examination of Aristotle's notions of Potentiality and Acutality, differentiate between foresters and lumberjacks and see how this relates the difference between butchers and sages, and thus between flow and nonaction.

 

It will be fun, really it will.

 

ZYD

[Zhongyongdaoist]

As an example of potential and its actualization or realization would be a synonym for actualization, but actualization is the philosophic technical term, little acorns and mighty Oaks are often used, I'm going to go ahead and do the same thing.  An acorn is the seminal manifestation of the li, morphe or form of "Oakiness", it has the potential to become an oak three and nothing but an oak tree, it cannot become a banana tree, or an apple tree much less a dappled horse, it can only be an oak.  In order to become a full grown oak making little acorns of its own and acorn needs good soil, adequate water and sufficient sunlight, lacking these it might not achieve the state of being a mighty oak producing other little acorns which as the actualization or realization of its of its potential is also its "end" or "telos".  This "end" is also one of Aristotle's four causes, called the final cause in English, but it should be our final subject and not distract us too much now.

 

Now there are things that might prevent and acorn from actualizing its potential, this may be easier if we examine another tree species, the orange tree.  I am switching to orange for a variety of reasons, one of which is that an awfully long time ago I was reading a book on alchemy and it described the common metals as metals that had not reached their full potential in becoming gold, and that alchemy should be viewed as being an art/science that helped natural substances that had been impeded by environmental factors from reaching their full potential by becoming gold.  Now in alchemy gold was the full realization of the potential of metals because it was "incorruptible", it didn't rust or decay, it was basically an "immortal" metal and alchemy "worked" because it helped nature to achieve its end as far as metals went.  It then went on to use the examples of orange trees of these environmental features that would prevent something from actualizing its full potential, it also explains, in case you have ever wondered why orangeries, usually small out buildings on large properties used for entertaining and a get away, are called orangeries, just in case you have ever wondered.  What this alchemical work said was that in warm climates such as sunny Spain orange trees thrived which meant that they actualized their full potential, they were able to produce seeds and continue to manifest "orangeness" in the world, but take them to the chillier climate of Britain and while they would grow and reach a certain level of development the cold climate prevent them from fruiting and producing seeds, and they needed the extra help of a greenhouse in order to reach their full potential.  Since oranges were really popular those dedicated to growing oranges, naturally became called orangeries.

 

Now there is a lot implied in what I have said above and it is very important to understanding the rational for both internal alchemy practices as well as laboratory alchemy, but that is outside of, but definitely related to, our topic here, which is the difference between wuwei, nonaction, and "flow".  So I will return to that.

 

In my previous post I mentioned foresters and lumberjacks and I will use them to bring this into focus.  Foresters and lumberjacks look at Oak trees in totally different ways, a forester is concerned about an oak being healthy and growing to reach its full potential and contributing to the overall well being of the forest.  A lumberjack looks at an oak as the raw material for his real interest, lumber, which oddly enough is why he's called a lumberjack.  The forester is concerned about how well the oak manifests its oakiness, he is concerned about the li of oak, and seeks to encourage that oakiness to manifest as much as possible.  The lumberjack is basically out to end the oak as an oak tree and "Make" it into an oak log, a lumberjack is the efficient cause of the making of oak trees into oak logs.  He may become a "daoist" lumberjack by following the li of oak trees as he cuts them down and fashions them into log, just as the "daoist" butcher follows the li of oxen while he cuts them up, but neither of them really cares about either the oak or ox and its "realization", but only whether it is a good oak for lumber or a fine ox for a feast.

 

Now what the sage is concerned about it the li of humanity and that human beings reach their full potential, he is not out to make them into something that he can use or sell, he is out to make them themselves, how that is accomplished and its difference from the making of the efficient cause is the difference between wuwei and flow and to further examine that we will bring us back to where we started with our quotes from the Neiye and the notion of the "unmoved mover", but first we will look at some of my favorite quotes from the Dao De Jing which will be my next post.

 

ZYD

[Zhongyongdaoist]

The first two are a couple of my favorite quotes, the type of thing that I really resonated with when I started reading the Dao De Jing over 50 years ago:

 

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17	道德經:	太上，下知有之；其次，親而譽之；其次，畏之；其次，侮之。信不足，焉有不信焉。悠兮，其貴言。功成事遂，百姓皆謂我自然。
	Dao De Jing:	(The unadulterated influence) In the highest antiquity, (the people) did not know that there were (their rulers). In the next age they loved them and praised them. In the next they feared them; in the next they despised them. Thus it was that when faith (in the Dao) was deficient (in the rulers) a want of faith in them ensued (in the people). How irresolute did those (earliest rulers) appear, showing (by their reticence) the importance which they set upon their words! Their work was done and their undertakings were successful, while the people all said, 'We are as we are, of ourselves!'

 

What is important here is the appearance of 自然, zìrán, with meanings such as, nature / natural / naturally, with a strong suggestion implied by 'We are as we are, of ourselves!', that "nature" as in human nature, the type of "nature" that would be implied by li as formal cause, that the work of the rulers of the "highest antiquity"  were concerned with the actualization/realization of potential and not with making the "people" into something as an efficient cause would, by acting on them directly and obviously as opposed to doing something which was behind the scenes, or otherwise not an obvious action which helped them to realize their "self-nature".

 

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2	道德經:	天下皆知美之為美，斯惡已。皆知善之為善，斯不善已。故有無相生，難易相成，長短相較，高下相傾，音聲相和，前後相隨。是以聖人處無為之事，行不言之教；萬物作焉而不辭，生而不有。為而不恃，功成而弗居。夫唯弗居，是以不去。
	Dao De Jing:	(The nourishment of the person) All in the world know the beauty of the beautiful, and in doing this they have (the idea of) what ugliness is; they all know the skill of the skilful, and in doing this they have (the idea of) what the want of skill is. So it is that existence and non-existence give birth the one to (the idea of) the other; that difficulty and ease produce the one (the idea of) the other; that length and shortness fashion out the one the figure of the other; that (the ideas of) height and lowness arise from the contrast of the one with the other; that the musical notes and tones become harmonious through the relation of one with another; and that being before and behind give the idea of one following another. Therefore the sage manages affairs without doing anything, and conveys his instructions without the use of speech. All things spring up, and there is not one which declines to show itself; they grow, and there is no claim made for their ownership; they go through their processes, and there is no expectation (of a reward for the results). The work is accomplished, and there is no resting in it (as an achievement). The work is done, but how no one can see; 'Tis this that makes the power not cease to be.

 

Unless someone wants to claim that the section in bold is such a bad translation as to be completely misleading, and then I hope to back that up with a cogent argument, the text seems to be quite clear and the "work" of the sage is done in a way that no one cane see.

 

Finally, this quote which came up when I did a search on the occurrences of ziran in the DDJ:
 

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64	道德經:	其安易持，其未兆易謀。其脆易泮，其微易散。為之於未有，治之於未亂。合抱之木，生於毫末；九層之臺，起於累土；千里之行，始於足下。為者敗之，執者失之。是以聖人無為故無敗；無執故無失。民之從事，常於幾成而敗之。慎終如始，則無敗事，是以聖人欲不欲，不貴難得之貨；學不學，復衆人之所過，以輔萬物之自然，而不敢為。
	Dao De Jing:	(Guarding the minute) That which is at rest is easily kept hold of; before a thing has given indications of its presence, it is easy to take measures against it; that which is brittle is easily broken; that which is very small is easily dispersed. Action should be taken before a thing has made its appearance; order should be secured before disorder has begun. The tree which fills the arms grew from the tiniest sprout; the tower of nine storeys rose from a (small) heap of earth; the journey of a thousand li commenced with a single step. He who acts (with an ulterior purpose) does harm; he who takes hold of a thing (in the same way) loses his hold. The sage does not act (so), and therefore does no harm; he does not lay hold (so), and therefore does not lose his bold. (But) people in their conduct of affairs are constantly ruining them when they are on the eve of success. If they were careful at the end, as (they should be) at the beginning, they would not so ruin them. Therefore the sage desires what (other men) do not desire, and does not prize things difficult to get; he learns what (other men) do not learn, and turns back to what the multitude of men have passed by. Thus he helps the natural development of all things, and does not dare to act (with an ulterior purpose of his own).

 

 

Thus he helps the natural development of all things

 

辅, fǔ, to assist / to complement / auxiliary

 

自然, zìrán, nature / natural / naturally

 

and does not dare to act

 

而不敢為

 

而, ér, and / as well as / and so / but (not) / yet (not)

 

不, bù, (negative prefix) / not / no

 

敢, gǎn, to dare, venture; bold, brave

 

為wéi, do, handle, govern, act; be

 

In the above two things are clear, the way of the sage is to assist things by the realization/actualization of the potential of ziran, and most importantly that the sage "does not dare to act", where act is wei, and wei is clearly distinguished from the preferred form of "assistance" fu, so based on this one might almost say that fu, not wei, is more accurate then wei not wei.

 

The parenthetical comment "(with an ulterior purpose of his own)", is the translators suggested interpretation, and has no more authority than the reader cars to give it.

 

So the implication is that the actions of butchers and lumberjacks and by implication anyone who may use the "li" or inherent pattern of something as part of their "making" process, which may be a Daoist method, is at least as far as the Dao De Jing is concerned not the way the Sage works through wuwei, and probably not even the type of work which the Sage undertakes through wuwei.  Light may be shed on the matter by a look at the Neiye, so I will return to it in my next post.

 

Oh, in case you are wondering ziran appears in he Dao De Jing five times.

 

ZYD

 

[wandelaar]

@ Zhongyongdaoist

 

There is a problem with this interpretation of wu wei in that it presupposes a situation where all creatures can realise their potential without apparent conflicts of interest.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

23 hours ago, wandelaar said:

@ Zhongyongdaoist

 

There is a problem with this interpretation of wu wei in that it presupposes a situation where all creatures can realise their potential without apparent conflicts of interest.

 

The problem is probably not with this interpretation of wuwei, but with the underlying cosmological assumptions of ancient China in which there existed a lost Golden Age under the "rulership nonrulership" of the ancient Sage Kings.  A return to rule by Daoist sages using wuwei would mean a return to the conditions of this time and an end to all strife by the harmonizing influence of the Dao.  The fact that moderns would dismiss such "magical" thinking doesn't make it any more appropriate to assume reductionist notions are useful for understanding what the author intended.  I don't see much point in discussing the matter further at this time, as it would lead far afield into matters early Chinese cosmology etc., with which I don't care to deal right now.

 

ZYD

[Eric Woon]

The great thing about science is that it learns from its mistakes. But where is the mistake? If you do not know where the mistake come from, how are you going to learn?

Classical Chinese (DDJ is 2500 years old) is very difficult to understand, far worse than Shakespeare's English. Wuwei, 无为 though is seen as two Chinese characters, it is not. The second character 为，actually is an abbreviation for the Chinese proverb, 为所欲为。That means, it is a five characters instead. Which means, not whimsical, or abstain from whims and fancies.

 

At chapter 57 and 64, the word 欲 too is an abbreviation for the same Chinese proverb  为所欲为。The two full phrase are:

Chapter 57: 我无为而民自化。Therefore, a wise leader always says, “I choose to abide by the principle of wuwei, and by leaving it solely up to the people who on their own free will and through their own interactions shall cultivate their own customs or social norms.

Chapter 64：是以圣人欲不欲。 Obviously, a judicious leader loves wuwei, that is, always restrains from wanting to carry out whimsical ideas.

 

The rest of the book, where there is the phrase wuwei, you can re-interpret it as either not whimsical, or abstain from whims and fancies, Happy learning. 

[wandelaar]

@ Zhongyongdaoist

 

What I am after in this topic is a scientific understanding of wu wei. That is a way of approaching things and a form of acting that is somewhat similar to flow but with a Taoist twist to it. It could be that - as you say - ancient texts like the Tao Te Ching presuppose that absolutely everything will turn out fine if the ruler would just avoid interfering with the Tao. But I don't believe in such fairy tales as an actual possibility, there will always be conflicts of interest and difficult choices to be made both for a ruler and for the common people. You may call that reductionism if you like. But to me being called a (New Age) holist would be much more upsetting.

[wandelaar]

8 hours ago, Eric Woon said:

The great thing about science is that it learns from its mistakes. But where is the mistake? If you do not know where the mistake come from, how are you going to learn?

Classical Chinese (DDJ is 2500 years old) is very difficult to understand, far worse than Shakespeare's English. Wuwei, 无为 though is seen as two Chinese characters, it is not. The second character 为，actually is an abbreviation for the Chinese proverb, 为所欲为。That means, it is a five characters instead. Which means, not whimsical, or abstain from whims and fancies.

 

At chapter 57 and 64, the word 欲 too is an abbreviation for the same Chinese proverb  为所欲为。The two full phrase are:

Chapter 57: 我无为而民自化。Therefore, a wise leader always says, “I choose to abide by the principle of wuwei, and by leaving it solely up to the people who on their own free will and through their own interactions shall cultivate their own customs or social norms.

Chapter 64：是以圣人欲不欲。 Obviously, a judicious leader loves wuwei, that is, always restrains from wanting to carry out whimsical ideas.

 

The rest of the book, where there is the phrase wuwei, you can re-interpret it as either not whimsical, or abstain from whims and fancies, Happy learning. 

 

Do you have a source for that?