dawei Posted November 2, 2018 David Hinton 2002 68 A noble official is never warlike, and a noble warrior is never angered. A noble conqueror never faces an enemy, and a noble leader stays below the people he wields. This is called the Integrity of peacefulness, the power of wielding the people, the fullest extent of our ancient accord with heaven. Dwight Goddard 1919 68 He who excels as a soldier is the one who is not warlike; he who fights the best fight is not wrathful; he who best conquers an enemy is not quarrelsome; he who best employs people is obedient himself. This is the virtue of not-quarreling, this is the secret of bringing out other men's ability, this is complying with Heaven. Since of old it is considered the greatest virtue (teh). Bradford Hatcher 2005 68 The student skilled at action is not aggressive The one skilled at combat is not angry The one at besting opponents does not participate The one skilled at employing others behaves as their subordinate This may be styled the “virtue of not contending” It may be styled “applying another’s power” It may be styled “siding with heaven,” The consummation of antiquity Wing-Tsit Chan 1963 68 A skillful leader of troops is not oppressive with his military strength. A skilful fighter does not become angry. A skilful conqueror does not compete with people. One who is skilful in using men puts himself below them. This is called the virtue of non-competing. This is called the strength to use men. This is called matching Heaven, the highest principle of old. Gu Zhengku 1993 68 He who is good at being a commander Does not display his bravery; He who is good at fighting Does not burst into anger; He who is good at defeating his enemy Does not brace himself to engage in a tough battle; He who is good at employing men Humbles himself before them; This is called the virtue of non-contention; This is called making use of others' strength; This is called conformability to the Tao of heaven. Ch'u Ta-Kao 1904 68 The best soldier is not soldierly; The best fighter is not ferocious; The best conqueror does not take part in war; The best employer of men keeps himself below them. This is called the virtue of not contending; This is the ability of using men; This is called the supremacy of consorting with heaven. Flowing Hands 1987 68 A good soldier is never violent. A good fighter is always calm. A good winner is never boastful. A good employer treats his staff like treasures. This is known as having insight into the ways of man. Having insight, is knowing how to deal with people. Such people reflect the ways of Heaven. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawei Posted November 9, 2018 ok, another one without comment.. here we go ! First line as noble offical, soldier, leader, he who, but we're not here to debate the exact word, as the meaning is the point. Upon re-reading a few times, this is a gem of a chapter ! Seems mostly about non-contention... but it could mean contention against our own mind or way too. It is a set of juxtapositions which feels a bit of Sunzi's art of war at times. On 11/2/2018 at 5:54 PM, dawei said: Gu Zhengku 1993 68 This is called making use of others' strength; This is called conformability to the Tao of heaven. Flowing Hands 1987 68 This is known as having insight into the ways of man. Having insight, is knowing how to deal with people. Such people reflect the ways of Heaven. This seems an interesting comparing: Making use of other's strength vs having insight into the ways of man. The former seeks seeks an understand of others, how we can use, employ or otherwise engage their ability. THis is a coach idea. The latter is an inner know of the ways of man in order to deal with people. So it is not a conformity but a reflection of the ways of Heaven that makes sense.. maybe of Dao is better. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted November 9, 2018 Yes, associating this chapter with The Art Of War is valid, I think. I don't recall having done that myself but it seems to be valid in my mind. And I would agree, it centers on the concept of non-contention and non-aggressiveness. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted November 9, 2018 Very interesting chapter, as to me this one is very clever and multi leveled. I think it is important to look at where the chapter leads. In each case it describes something like how the chapter is about the virtue of non-contending (or striving) and how it is useful to deal with other people (better connect with them). At a more energetic level, if you think about fighting, one realizes that fight exists (or is translated that way) in the mind. And when ones reaches the higher level ( or 3 treasures from the earlier chapter), you start to more deep connection to your environment and others around you. Often your mind will translate that new “incoming” energy as some sort of attack, rather than a natural flow. Hence, one should follow the steps as described in the chapter... 1) dont go violent or think of it as an attack 2) keep your mind calm and quiet and let things flow. 3) dont go ego crazy (boastful) with your new connections to others. 4) treat all of these new connections as the treasures they are, and learn to be the “valley” that can support the broader network. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rara Posted June 30, 2020 On 02/11/2018 at 9:54 PM, dawei said: One who is skilful in using men puts himself below them. There have been similar lines to this elsewhere in the book. I still wonder whether this means to just not be dictating when in a position of power, or if it means to not even go for a position of power and to be a positive force behind the scenes. Maybe both, depending on the situation you're in? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawei Posted July 3, 2020 On 6/30/2020 at 7:31 AM, Rara said: There have been similar lines to this elsewhere in the book. I still wonder whether this means to just not be dictating when in a position of power, or if it means to not even go for a position of power and to be a positive force behind the scenes. Maybe both, depending on the situation you're in? Energetically, follow the flow of energy. Humanly, follow the flow of humanness. Earthly, follow the flow of earth. Heaven,ly follow the flow of heaven. Spiritually, follow the flow of the spirit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sketch Posted November 15, 2020 Verse Sixty Eight The Military is not a worthwhile occupation for An educated person. Anger is not a worthwhile occupation For a warrior. Violence is not the worthwhile method For attaining victory over ones enemies. A person who can treat other people properly Is occupying the low place, and that tells us that they will avoid violence. That’s the way to treat other people. This is called Following the ancient compass - true North. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
