Dark Night of the Soul

[Spotless]

Dark Night of the Soul

 

An agonizing and liberating experience when one has come to the absolute limit of wilfulness with regard to a situation or situations.  When no part of the tools one has used in the past is applicable. It is where the bag of tricks are at a dead end and one is confronted with non-doing. 

One is presented with a debasing of all positions, past views and exercised contrivances.

A feeling of *nowhere to go* at a depth that depletes all grasping to mere folly but without complete release from the trappings of axiety about ones perceived predicament - though even the perception of that predicament is in question.

A poisition from which one does not seek help from others for answers - where *answers* are not sought.

A state where from one comes to put one foot in front of another and one walks in grace with wilfulness suspended - one step at a time in the present

as a child.

[oak]

Do you think true initiation is possible without this? Is there any learning at all without going through this process?

 

Thanks for the topic Spotless.

[Spotless]

5 hours ago, oak said:

Do you think true initiation is possible without this? Is there any learning at all without going through this process?

 

Thanks for the topic Spotless.

Absolutely - and it is also problematic:

 

In time it can become your story - it can bring you close to Awakening and has so many elements of awakening but it does not generally come with the clean release of grasping but rather a sort of fenced-in no-out aspect - a bit like being surrounded by a bunch of police telling you to drop everything and put up your hands - their are no good options - not even to speak - zip - put the hands up and drop everything - get on your knees then lie face down. 

 

And like the above example - you are not really asked to give up your person hood - that group of “I’s” you consider YOU - but it is temporarily stopped in its tracks and you do not have willfulness as an option - in other words you cant talk the police out of the order - suicide or dead compliance are the options.

 

In the case of the Dark Night of the Soul - you are surrounded by complete futility - the options are the same.

 

And for a time - you are in the present - with a haunting bleak tiredness.

You do not even resort to planning - futures are of no interest - your previous story seems like fantasy in ashes. You may turn to drink - you may turn to religion - you may sleep endlessly and not answer the phone and contemplate suicide - you may work and do what you must while carrying yourself as walking leadened dead weight with each step asking why? But with no interest even in asking or entertaining the question - no interest in sorting it out - there is nothing to sort out.

 

AND then we come to the crux in the road.

 

We begin to walk upright - like the first few days outside after a really bad bout of the flu - we are in a delicate physical state and in this case a very delicate overall state. We are planning nothing - we put one foot in front of the other and if need be we just stand and breath and perhaps then sit down or lie down fine with having had even a moment with some semblance of a part of us being slightly above water.

 

This goes on for a time and then the crux - outside expectation comes to us and inside impulses of expectation begin to arise - but we are also experiencing SELF - we are IN SELF and their is something familiar and wonderful about it - an awareness of breath and Being that we are not doing but that we ARE - a part long covered over and sidetracked in those very noises of futures and pasts and hardened dead positions that we have just put under our feet.     But.............

 

The sirens start calling ever so faintly - you need to get back on the horse - put your hands back on the reins - you can’t sit on the fence - living in a van down by the river is not a nice option.

 

At this point most simply begin to pick up pieces and familiar habituations begin to re-emerge. Some things may be off limits entirely for awhile and others not so much - it is a slow “recovery”. It is slow for many easily imagined reasons but particularly because whole pieces of the former life are of no interest and are no longer of value. Futures and Pasts both have taken a considerable jump back in terms of planning or prioritizing or wearing as a badge.

And we are once again abandoning Present / Self and it becomes soon enough again - “our story”.

 

Awakening is often frought with the same sirens - it generally does not come with a haunting bleakness - but it is often extremely disorienting. In much the same way whole portions of personhood (often felt as all of personhood) have dropped away - so much so that you also do not answer the phone - but not because you are ten feet under - you simply have nothing what so ever to say. And the sirens are your friends and family that know you are fine but - NOT FINE - and you have no explaination even if you wanted to explain - and at the same time you are uncommonly overwhelmed with immense Gratitude towards nothing and everything.

 

Got to go - tough writing all of this on an iphone - 

 

 

 

Edited November 9, 2018 by Spotless

[oak]

3 hours ago, Spotless said:

Got to go - tough writing all of this on an iphone - 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for your answer and patience. There is plenty in it.

[Zork]

@Spotless

Do you think it is possible to enter this state by chance without pursuing enlightenment?

Can it happen to an average Joe whose only outside symptom would be an onset of depression?

[Spotless]

5 hours ago, Zork said:

@Spotless

Do you think it is possible to enter this state by chance without pursuing enlightenment?

Can it happen to an average Joe whose only outside symptom would be an onset of depression?

People come and go from Self frequently - and they sometimes Awaken for no apparent reason whether having symptoms of depression or joy. 

However - it (Awakening) does happen much more frequently

in moments when a person suspends judgement and in some sense disengages from their positions.

 

If your question was with regard to entering what is referred to as Dark Night of the Soul without pursuing Enlightenment - and whose only outside symptom was the onset of depression - It’s “onset” has no general correlation with seeking Enlightenment and outwardly a person could appear nearly fine to most people’s perceptive abilities.

 

The Dark Night of the Soul is not a “state” one enters as much as a train wreck or falling out of a plane without a parachute. It is not depression with thoughts of suicide.

 

It is a confrontation of your person-hoods wilfulness. 

Edited November 10, 2018 by Spotless

[Spotless]

The entire discussion of Dark Night of the Soull can be turned into a discussion of various levels of depression. What was put forth above is something different and more defined as a confrontation of ones willfulness and in that an abrupt debasing of ones personal story(s).

 

In “classic depression” personal stories grow, positions lock and the voices are often given free rein or sometimes only a few very repetitious negative loops. (It can be hopeless and it can be hard to want to wake up or answer the phone as well.)

 

It is nearly the opposite with Dark Night of the Soul - though some that are interested in this theme have included nearly everything in a sort of group “problem solving” heart themed inquiry “teaching” and it sells very well.

 

In DNOTS personal stories turn to ashes,  positions have no grasp and locking up on anything is functionally impossible - even the mind loops stop - though for a time the mind may loop on the completeness of the situation - such as the man might say “what the ? Whaaaaaaaat the ?????? Whaaaaat the f..............?” As he begins his free fall from the plane.

 

 

[liminal_luke]

Thanks for this Spotless.  I`m interested in the relationship between depression and dark-night awakening.  Perhaps the only thing depression has in common with the dark night of the soul is that it feels bad?  I get that depression is often position-heavy and awakening about the letting go of positions.  Still, I can`t help but wondering if there could be an unexpected spiritual upside to depression: can the no-way-out hopelessness of depression be used (for lack of a better word) as a kind of crowbar to put oneself in a place where awakening is more likely?

[Spotless]

8 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

Thanks for this Spotless.  I`m interested in the relationship between depression and dark-night awakening.  Perhaps the only thing depression has in common with the dark night of the soul is that it feels bad?  I get that depression is often position-heavy and awakening about the letting go of positions.  Still, I can`t help but wondering if there could be an unexpected spiritual upside to depression: can the no-way-out hopelessness of depression be used (for lack of a better word) as a kind of crowbar to put oneself in a place where awakening is more likely?

Awakening is generally not about the “letting go” of positions but rather the falling away of position (also called grasping). 

 

In a sense we are all experiencing depression as we feel distance to some un-pin-able essence.

 

Self / Divine Essence / Grace / Love / God - we are these - they are the same. We glue into frequencies that come and go (karma) and comprise them to be our “I”s which we take to be who and what we are - but this “we” that comprises our personhood

and our proud stories and our ordeals and bruises and open wounds fall short in the appraisal of who we are and what “it’s” all about.

 

A great portion of what “it’s” all about is Spontaneous Creativity and so “it” is not all dreary and may be nearly void of drearyness. 

 

The component of depression is the suffering that ceases with Awakening. It is investment in pasts and futures - beliefs - concepts.

 

All belief is vested in pasts and futures. And the wilfulness of our investment in them is constantly grated over the Present which we willfully and in automation and habituation walk over the jewel of Self.

 

Depression - doubt - redress -  these are symptoms of the “pasts futures” dilemma - and yes they can be helpful in this lost and found we are in the process of discovering.

 

Great joy makes the lows feel like a mockery. Yet many of our highs are as automated as any experience. It is a peculiarity of our species and this play to value automated suffering over automated “fun”.

 

The Dark Night of the Soul as it has been referred to and defined in these writings could easily be named The Harsh Brilliant Light from which all of the “you”s that comprise your personhood cannot hide, run from, or tape over.

 

Other definitions may easily turn into a hug fest - victimhood and self improvement. 

 

IN The Dark Night of the Soul one does not want comfort - one wants nothing. It is a settled space. Sudden silence in a patina of drought and incredible weight. One is abruptly faced with nothingness.

 

It can be like finding oneself falling into a bottomless pit - for a time one is IN the “pit” aspect. After a time it may occur to one that “bottomless” means essentially that one is floating and is not about to be a splat.

 

At some point one may reconsider the entire assumption of “pit” in relation to having no position, no grasping. 

 

Instead of picking up the “pieces” 

of residual 

selfhood/personhood/position/automation - one may abide in Self and come to Be.

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2018 by Spotless

[Zork]

So if i understand correctly, the dark night of the soul is a transitionary period or side-effect on the way to awakening?

Is it mandatory or an indication of something going wrong?

[Patrick Brown]

I see it as going to the end-of-mind, or exhausting mind, and being on the verge of sacrificing self but something keeps you here, selflessness!

 

It has been said in Tibetan Buddhism that psychosis is a prerequisite for enlightenment although I'm unsure about this statement. I've had several 'Dark Nights of the Soul' and I've never returned just for myself. All I can say is that it's a process that seems to lessen the self with each iteration and I would like to say that it get easier although, in my experience, it's different each time.  Perhaps it does get easier as something is slowly revealed/unfolded which has nothing to do with mind as words loose their meaning. I think it's a bit like being a young child, that's the best I can describe it. 

 

Good luck brave warriors. 

[Zen Pig]

ahhh. dark night of the soul.  yes. I have a story about my personal experience, but If I tell folks at an improper time, it will rune the surprise.  Not saying that I have accomplished anything, or have transcended, or awakened or have become enlightened,  because for one thing have no clue what any of that means, but sometimes, it is important to let someone work it out for themselves.  

hence the old time admonition, "just keep sitting"........ When I did tai chi, folks, including myself would come up and ask of my teacher, questions about internal power, chi, and other esoteric things.  His answer was always. "Just keep doing Tai Chi"......... nof' said.

[rene]

@Spotless

 

Hello old friend (-:

 

For me - DNOTS has come as a sideways step from bottomless  depression. Not like a rescue ladder - but rather the lateral move taken without intent or even the desire to do so: the crumb trail followed when nothing of old Self remains...including any connection to the situation that got me there in the first place.

 

Hope that made sense; sometimes I cant tell, just like I never know where the crumb trail will lead; only that breathing is easier...and where could I go that would not be okay? lol

 

Nice thread (-:

Edited November 12, 2018 by rene
typo

[Spotless]

On 11/11/2018 at 1:30 AM, Zork said:

So if i understand correctly, the dark night of the soul is a transitionary period or side-effect on the way to awakening?

Is it mandatory or an indication of something going wrong?

It is what it is - it is not necessary and not specifically a side effect of “seeking”.

Some may experience it, some may not.

It could be the side effect of having stage 4 cancer.

 

[Spotless]

Patrick Brown:

 

”I see it as going to the end-of-mind, or exhausting mind, and being on the verge of sacrificing self but something keeps you here, selflessness!”

 

Response - Spotless:

 

This view is more along the line of heavy depression - but the use of the word Mind leaves a very wide berth for interpretation.

The key aspect put forth above is in relation to Wilfulness specifically - you can’t run (not a mind function) and you have no yankable option of energetically grabbing and twisting your way out (not a mind aspect) and crying and feeling sorry for yourself is also not an option (not a mind aspect) and the mental options were the first to be written off the list - and often having nothing to do with mental exhaustion.

 

A group of physical cops surrounding you with guns drawn leaves no mental or physical or emotional way out - zip. All impetus to momentum is dead before starting.

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by Spotless

[Spotless]

Rene:

 

“For me - DNOTS has come as a sideways step from bottomless  depression. Not like a rescue ladder - but rather the lateral move taken without intent or even the desire to do so: the crumb trail followed when nothing of old Self remains...including any connection to the situation that got me there in the first place.”

 

Yes!   No rehash - nothing

[Patrick Brown]

8 hours ago, Spotless said:

This view is more along the line of heavy depression - but the use of the word Mind leaves a very wide berth for interpretation.

 

I think all emotions are heightened, and cycle/change very faster, when the egos very existence is put on the line it's like a child protesting. At a deeper level it's a bit like a replicant  (Blade Runner) having to come to terms with the fact that it wasn't born and all those childhood memories are not theirs! I suppose it's somewhat reductionist as the layers of personality are what's stripped away at the DNOTS. We might more correctly call it The Dark Night of the Ego!

 

Of course the ego isn't destroy but simply understood better for what it is. There is a relationship to Jung's theory of individuation although I don't pretend to understand it.

 

Quote

According to Jungian psychology, individuation (German: Individuation) is a process of psychological integration. "In general, it is the process by which individual beings are formed and differentiated [from other human beings]; in particular, it is the development of the psychological individual as a being distinct from the general, collective psychology."^[8]

 

Individuation is a process of transformation whereby the personal and collective unconscious are brought into consciousness (e.g., by means of dreams, active imagination, or free association) to be assimilated into the whole personality. It is a completely natural process necessary for the integration of the psyche.^[9] Individuation has a holistic healingeffect on the person, both mentally and physically.^[9]

 

In addition to Jung's theory of complexes, his theory of the individuation process forms conceptions of an unconscious filled with mythic images, a non-sexual libido, the general types of extraversion and introversion, the compensatory and prospective functions of dreams, and the synthetic and constructive approaches to fantasy formation and utilization.^[10]

 

"The symbols of the individuation process . . . mark its stages like milestones, prominent among them for Jungians being the shadow, the wise old man . . . and lastly the anima in man and the animus in woman."^[11] Thus, "There is often a movement from dealing with the persona at the start . . . to the ego at the second stage, to the shadow as the third stage, to the anima or animus, to the Self as the final stage. Some would interpose the Wise Old Man and the Wise Old Woman as spiritual archetypes coming before the final step of the Self."^[12]

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individuation#Carl_Jung

 

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Patrick Brown

[Spotless]

10 hours ago, Patrick Brown said:

I think all emotions are heightened, and cycle/change very faster, when the egos very existence is put on the line it's like a child protesting.

In the Dark Night of the Soul as defined here it is quite the opposite of the above quote - their is no protesting - no cycling - the “speed” is that of dead stop. The ego in basically any form of definition of it is withdrawn from - it is not held at bay - it is not being contemplated - it is nothing.

Personhood is withdrawn from - it is like suicide was committed but with no planning and no intention of committing the act - and their is no remorse or rehashing or investigation - it is with a great heaviness that one takes each breath and moves about. 

Everything feels somewhat newish - even going to the bathroom or placing your hand on a cup of coffee.

The mind by any definition is nearly at an utter and complete stop.

 

In some ways - all breath is sipped in by the heart as one proceeds very much alone in a deafening silence.

 

[Spotless]

For some high anxiety and prolonged hardship are saddled up with the notion of Dark Night of the Soul.

 

It may also be a deep suicidal voice and a sense of general dissatisfaction with life that drags anchor and weighs upon one that is associated with Dark Night of the Soul.

 

In the definition of Dark Night of the Soul put forth here it is much more tangible and typically quite abrupt and blunt. It is simply too easy to extend the definition to include nearly every quiver in the heart.

 

When a person finds out they have cancer it can be a whole range of anxieties - but when you reach stage 4 and it’s everywhere - in many cases - your life stops - personhood is put on hold - each day is in the moment. 

 

When a sizable portion of lifes work comes to an end in bankruptcy and ruin - it can be a stop point in interaction with life and family and everything familiar.

 

Catastrophic consequences can leave one with a spouse or child or entire family dead - there is no retrieval in such a case - it is not possible to put oneself in such a persons shoes.

 

The sudden and unexpected loss of a long time job - an unexpected announcement of a spouse leaving / divorcing - loss of a home and no money or youth to work with left. 

 

There are quite a number of events that can separate one from ones personhood - disconnect the drive train - remove one from all familiar inertia’s - from inertia.

 

Full stop mode - but not resembling a conscious choice - an abrupt shift to Present with a sort of black patina and dead weight attached.

 

The most key feature - all wilfulness

comes to a stop.

 

——-

 

This is about Wilfulness 

 

——-

 

Awakening is Wilfulness dropped - all grasping is Wilfulness.

 

All personhood is Wilfulness etched in habituation and fortifications of position and belief held in pasts and futures.

 

Many who experience Awakening come to a stop moment in which they drop Wilfulness within to a critical mass and - in an instant - are Awakened.

 

For many that have Awakened - it has come about in Dark Night of the Soul.

 

For many that have Awakened - they find themselves in a state resembling Dark Night of the Soul:

It does not have the black patina and the weight is like helium - but past and futures and habituations are gone (at least for a time).  

 

Personhood is missing.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by Spotless

[SoverMan]

I am new to this conversation. Yet my heart and mind grasps the thoughts behind the words like someone dying of thirst. No therapy, or book seems to express the feeling of the experience I've been in the last few years as well as contained in this thread. I've often wondered if it wasn't a dark night of the soul but true depression. I see now it's, for me, depression. Yet conventional wisdom aka traditional therapy held no relief or understanding. I've shunned drugs completely. I am...I do want to figure a way thru all of this. I don't know or can recall ever really enjoying this life. Sure there have been moments of distraction where i was young and caught up in life as young people tend to be. Love, sex, the 80s, etc. Now at 55, life holds no...umm...I don't know the right word. I guess there is no sense of going forward with any kind of passion or interest. I long to be absorbed in SOMETHING. To wake up with something to look forward to. I appreciate any insight into any of this. 

[ilumairen]

On 11/25/2018 at 2:03 PM, SoverMan said:

I am new to this conversation. Yet my heart and mind grasps the thoughts behind the words like someone dying of thirst. No therapy, or book seems to express the feeling of the experience I've been in the last few years as well as contained in this thread. I've often wondered if it wasn't a dark night of the soul but true depression. I see now it's, for me, depression. Yet conventional wisdom aka traditional therapy held no relief or understanding. I've shunned drugs completely. I am...I do want to figure a way thru all of this. I don't know or can recall ever really enjoying this life. Sure there have been moments of distraction where i was young and caught up in life as young people tend to be. Love, sex, the 80s, etc. Now at 55, life holds no...umm...I don't know the right word. I guess there is no sense of going forward with any kind of passion or interest. I long to be absorbed in SOMETHING. To wake up with something to look forward to. I appreciate any insight into any of this. 

 

While this may sound very odd at first, make 'friends with' the breeze.

 

[rideforever]

Practice death, every night ... give up, let go, let go of everything.
Letting go is matched with wakening up to something new inside.
It can be terrifying of letting go ... into the unknown.
Later when more into the unknown ... it is terrifying to find oneself again in the known (mind).
Make a home in the unknown.
No longer need to be loved by anyone.
No longer need to be in the known.
It is as painful as giving birth.
Best to intersperse with some good comedies and if possible a sort of regularised outer life.   Don't tell anyone just chop wood carry water, keep pretending everything is the same, and die every night secretly.  That's the best way.
If you derail your outer life then the pain is unnecessary, likewise if you don't watch Inspector Clousseau every night you will be suffering excessively.
Like in the winter the Sun disappears for 3 days.
Are you worried it won't come out again ?
Perhaps the next second won't cone out again either.
Who cares.
You can only be ultimately what you are, so if you are, or if you are not .... it's a bit later now isn't it.
Ah ha ha ha.

 

 

[Rishi Das]

On 11/25/2018 at 11:03 AM, SoverMan said:

...I long to be absorbed in SOMETHING...

 

Great insight, @SoverMan. One thought that comes to mind: let go and be absorbed by the longing itself. 

Be open to wherever that river of longing takes you. Let it move you, let it shake you, let it change and transform you. 

[Spotless]

On 11/25/2018 at 11:03 AM, SoverMan said:

Yet conventional wisdom aka traditional therapy held no relief or understanding. I've shunned drugs completely. I am...I do want to figure a way thru all of this. I don't know or can recall ever really enjoying this life.

 

What ever your practice - practice can and will help you to arrive at a peace that simply one day takes place in this regard.

 

i do not know what the mechanisms are precisely - I constantly thought of suicide for many decades - even after my son and wife and all.

 

What you explain was always with me - though those that knew me often thought that was the last thing on my mind.

 

Not long before I Awoke - it simply fell away - 

 

I was meditating a considerable amount - but I had meditated even more in earlier times.

 

I had just started Qi Gong - it is incredible at breaking up held patterns both physical as well as all throughout the subtle bodies.

 

(It is incredible post Awakening for breaking up residual patterns)

 

As much as the allure of suicide was tempting I was quite clear in the futility of that as some out - it is more like stepping from one jail into a far more confined space.

 

Rideforever mentioned comedy - laughing - and for me - taking a drive, comedy, movies, a message - it is important to be with some form of relief and play. Even if the “play” is something pretty mundane by most standards.

 

Fasting was a great help many times in my life and perhaps this would be of help to you as well. It is like a big recalibration to ones natural essence and departure from current trends and crossroads.

 

The isolation is in otherness - but even Unity Consciousness does not necessarily remove this malady.

 

One can BE in everything and the sense of aloneness may still abide - possibly even more as time goes on because regardless of what you know/see/feel you are even less able to share it with the general associations in your life (particularly if you have aversion to overt religious behavior and rainbows and unicorns).

 

A great deal is in willfulness.

 

In this itching willfulness - the urge to Do - is isolating. It would appear not to be isolating - but it solidifies Me-ness in its triggering ever so subtly.

 

Look at your story and let it go.

 

(it is in the story that the lie has taken form - the lie that Self cannot simply Be but must somehow be a reward. That cowardice is your problem - or lack of fortitude.)

 

 

Pasts and Futures are the gut of the illusion and only trance takes you past the driving pain of loss of Self.

 

Ultimately whenever the frequencies of trance subside we long for something better or more meaningful. Sleep - waking sleep is everyday life among the sleeping masses.

 

The addiction to our favorite trances

is the illusion.

 

Laughter and sudden beauty are among the best ways to see Present in Presence. NOW has no longing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2018 by Spotless

[SoverMan]

To each one of you who took a moment to share and insight with me, I thank you from my soul. It was so hard to openly share something that I find to be so scary and so real to me at this time in my life. And each share touched on a unique way of looking at this time with new eyes. I know from your responses you've been there...been...here. This makes all the difference. 
You know I've walked the so called spiritual path for over 30 years. For most of that time it became the 'in thing' to do. It became hip to read self help books and then that lead to more esoteric practices, and gurus, and beautiful women, and experiences, and then on to the next book, teacher, and or experience. And why not, I was young, I really hadn't been hurt, hadn't been scarred, hadn't seen death up close. I just knew that life as I was raised was missing something. I just knew the people who damaged me weren't as smart as I was or could be. I was a rebel. I even moved to a big city to become a yoga teacher. I did so called healings on the side. I was part of the happening scene. Then...something shifted. All of a sudden it all felt empty, and dead. I no longer could do yoga or take a class. Everyone felt like they were lying. It all became about making money and a brand and on and on and on. Then my marriage ended, Dad died, went bankrupt, got sick, had a nervous breakdown, my mother became ill and needed care and I Was the one with no family so it felt right to be there for her. I didn't realize coming home would allow me to face all the stuff I ran away from my whole life! I felt helpless to it. I was the metaphysical guy who thought we was above it all. Only to see I am no different. smh...such a cliche huh? Without all the fluff all I am left with is my real fears. Poverty, Death, Loneliness, etc. Things I thought being spiritual would somehow save me from. My naivete crushed me. 

Reading your shares gives me some deeper perspectives on this. Leastwise I don't feel so alone. 

I did find a qigong practice but I've not fully committed myself too it as yet. I've dabbled somewhat but not consistent. But more importantly just embracing it all is a worthy challenge. 
 

I thank you.