The Brexit Thread

[Apech]

1 minute ago, Patrick Brown said:

 

It's the same old story of mud slinging with the politicians! As for the current draft most people are beginning to understand that the negotiations needed to be done by people that want to leave as well as having the appropriate negotiating skills needed. We're getting a picture of Theresa May constantly sticking her nose in and derailing the process. If the EU don't want to play ball then we should just move to WTO rules and get out ASAP. 

 

The test will be if the EU will allow, and are willing, to renegotiate aspects of the current deal. I think May and the EU we're deluded in the first place to think that nobody would notice that this current draft deal simply means remaining but with us having even less control! 

     

 

 

I think May's 'deal' reflects what she really wants which is a half in /half out compromise - which probably makes re-entry more possible.  And people from both sides blame her for this.  But how come, after the referendum and Cameron resigning none of these snivelling shits actually put themselves forward as leader?  Cos they are cowards who can only back stab.  So I agree with Paddy Ashdown on this.  We are being let down by a whole political class - and while I don't like May at least she was man enough to give it a go.

[Chang]

3 hours ago, Apech said:

 

 

I think May's 'deal' reflects what she really wants which is a half in /half out compromise - which probably makes re-entry more possible.  And people from both sides blame her for this.  But how come, after the referendum and Cameron resigning none of these snivelling shits actually put themselves forward as leader?  Cos they are cowards who can only back stab.  So I agree with Paddy Ashdown on this.  We are being let down by a whole political class - and while I don't like May at least she was man enough to give it a go.

 

You are quite right in that Prime Drip May is a half in, half out, shake it all about and do the hokey cokey politician. I am sad to hear that you should agree with Paddy Ashdown (a member of the political class he sees fit to criticize) on anything though and we should be eternally grateful that the Liberals are not handling the Brexit negotiations.

 

The sad fact is that the negotiations have been handled by those who would rather not upset the Cultural Marxist status quo. Far easier to remain within the evil empire of the E.U. than to step outside it. We are governed by moral eunuchs and whilst Brexit should have been a great opportunity it has been made into a great mess. I can see no hope of anyone with a backbone taking on the job of sorting the mess out, so all we can do is sit back and laugh and cry as this poor pantomime unfolds before us.

[rideforever]

I was thinking today in the shower .... you know the "deal" is not that bad, it's not like ... we have given them Wayne Roonery or anything.

 

So what's wrong with the deal .... alright everything is wrong with it ... but there is so little in the deal that it's not so much.

 

The EU are just as ludicrous as our politicians caught in a crossfire of their own tremors of fear, all the problems in Europe, the US Trump, Russia and so on .... and if Hilary runs it's not going to end up any time soon.

 

Juncker but one brown and one blue shoe on this week for work, and he's probably hitting the sauce quite hard.   Inside the leeches are aware of their own inner meaninglessness.

 

Why did they play hardball with us ?   Well they didn't really, they can't do anything, so they just sit there and say the same mantra in the hope that everyone will go away, and at the same time May just says yes okay to everything.   It's a bit like Paxo vs Michael Howard if anyone remembers.   Paxo asked the same question 14 times because in his ear the editor was saying that the next segment is not ready so buy some time Jeremy .... and during the 14 times Michael Howard managed to dice himself up.

 

So don't feel threatened.

 

May probably sees her as a sacrificial lamb, and that's just fine with everyone including herself, so maybe it's a blinder, never know.   All depends on what happens next.

 

Of course in an honest world of people who have backbones things would be quite different but .... you gotta disco with whatever creatures you find on the dancefloor, and zombie snakes dance in a certain slithery kind of way.   No hard feelings.

 

And at the same time China is unrolling it's new Silk Road investment plan, connecting itself with so many parts of the world.   And they think they are hip.   Well okay, soon they will be on the other side of the arc of society, and declining into indulgence and fatigue like the West.   Ha, don't think it won't happen, it will.

 

 

 

[Patrick Brown]

I think the 48 letters are in but someones has been told to put May's dethroning on hold. probably in the hope that some will withdraw their letters. 

 

I've got to have an operation a week from today so I may sloop off this thread as it's going to be the same old 'Never Ending Story' as far as Brexit is concerned. Fingers crossed we get out but at the end of the day we are an island so at least we'll always have that! 

 

 

[Miffymog]

Well, I've just had a thought. Those that wanted to set up a leadership challenge did think they had the numbers, but in the end some decided to hold back.

 

All that happens now is they wait until the deal gets voted down in the house of commons in December.

 

That is the next 'good' opportunity to remove TM and put in a more Brexit leaning leader - my prediction

Edited November 19, 2018 by Miffymog

[Apech]

57 minutes ago, Miffymog said:

Well, I've just had a thought. Those that wanted to set up a leadership challenge did think they had the numbers, but in the end some decided to hold back.

 

All that happens now is they wait until the deal gets voted down in the house of commons in December.

 

That is the next 'good' opportunity to remove TM and put in a more Brexit leaning leader - my prediction

 

See ... snivelling cowards.

[Miffymog]

Yes and no.

 

Waiting until they actually know how the commons vote goes is not taking decisive action now. But, depending on how it goes, after then she could well be in a weaker position ...

 

What does she do when it, most likely, gets voted down?

 

The EU have already said we can just remain in the transmission period indefinitely, and that's her threat to the Brexiters.

But to the remainers, she threatens a hard Brexit.

 

Right, I think she'll last until the vote, lose, and then a leadership challenge will happen!

[Patrick Brown]

Miffymog makes a good point, but! I have a strong feeling that Graham Brady has been told to lie and stop May being booted for whatever reasons. Yes the draft will not be voted through and it will make May look like an even bigger idiot but the renegades may also end up looking bad for wasting time as the clock is ticking!

 

Even though I don't like Boris he's does seem to have formulated a plan and maybe he's grown some balls and has decided to go for the leadership? As farage keeps saying anybody that believes in Brexit could do the job!  

 

 

Edited November 19, 2018 by Patrick Brown
doesn't should have said does!! Changed now

[Chang]

32 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said:

Miffymog makes a good point, but! I have a strong feeling that Graham Brady has been told to lie and stop May being booted for whatever reasons. Yes the draft will not be voted through and it will make May look like an even bigger idiot but the renegades may also end up looking bad for wasting time as the clock is ticking!

 

Even though I don't like Boris he's does seem to have formulated a plan and maybe he's grown some balls and has decided to go for the leadership? As farage keeps saying anybody that believes in Brexit could do the job!  

 

 

 

It is true that had we the people in positions of authority who believed in Brexit then things would be very different. Unfortunately those in favour of remaining within the European Union hold great power within parliament, the media and big business. We must also remember that the most vocal elements of society (empty vessels make the most noise) also tend towards remaining within the European dictatorship.

 

It is all a most unholy dithering mess and over it all hangs the spectre of a second referendum (E.U. supporters love repeated referendums until they get the result they want). Corbyn has already postulated the prospect of a second referendum at a future date.

 

Summing up the whole business one can only come to the conclusion that Bill and Ben the Flower Pot Men could do a better job of running the country.

[rideforever]

I could not think of a more competent and perfect fit for the job than David Davis with Raab at #2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFNgDHBJn-E

[Patrick Brown]

Farage live in 15:

 

 

[Miffymog]

"Jacob Rees-Mogg admits Tory rebels' plot to unseat Theresa May HAS stalled amid bitter Brexiteer splits over whether PM should be ousted before vote on her EU deal" - Daily Mail

 

Yep, it now goes a little quieter until the vote ...

 

 

[Apech]

1 hour ago, Miffymog said:

"Jacob Rees-Mogg admits Tory rebels' plot to unseat Theresa May HAS stalled amid bitter Brexiteer splits over whether PM should be ousted before vote on her EU deal" - Daily Mail

 

Yep, it now goes a little quieter until the vote ...

 

 

 

They can't even stage a proper coup

[Chang]

27 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

They can't even stage a proper coup

 

Yes it is all rather pathetic. The Brexiteers are now bringing up the spectre of May leading the party into the next election in the hope of stirring their colleagues into action. Obviously the thought of the lacklustre May fighting another election against the charismatic Obi-Wan Corbyn is the stuff of nightmares, especially for the those Tories in marginal seats.

 

The hope of most of the Tory Herdlings was that May would get Brexit sorted and then could be ousted in time for a General Election. That was always a forlorn hope and is now only the stuff of dreams.

[Apech]

1 minute ago, Chang said:

 

Yes it is all rather pathetic. The Brexiteers are now bringing up the spectre of May leading the party into the next election in the hope of stirring their colleagues into action. Obviously the thought of the lacklustre May fighting another election against the charismatic Obi-Wan Corbyn is the stuff of nightmares, especially for the those Tories in marginal seats.

 

The hope of most of the Tory Herdlings was that May would get Brexit sorted and then could be ousted in time for a General Election. That was always a forlorn hope and is now only the stuff of dreams.

 

I have the growing feeling that May is going survive this - especially as there doesn't seem to be a main contender (unless its Rees-Mog himself).  But we shall see.

[Miffymog]

32 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

They can't even stage a proper coup

 

And this is their greatest weakness, and May's greatest advantage, they all have different ideas as to what to do. Will Dominic Raab's plan for an orderly Brexit, with a sensible transition period (rather than cliff edge) be the way forwards?

 

 

[Apech]

Just now, Miffymog said:

 

And this is their greatest weakness, and May's greatest advantage, they all have different ideas as to what to do. Will Dominic Raab's plan for an orderly Brexit, with a sensible transition period (rather than cliff edge) be the way forwards?

 

 

 

There's a lot to be said for orderly transitions - and instinctively I like the 'do nothing' or at least as little as possible in times of instability.   We've boxed ourselves into a corner where even a second referendum and a Remain vote would be socially destabilising.  A hard Brexit is very uncertain in outcome.  So maybe a compromise is ok for the short/ middle term.  

[Patrick Brown]

Looks as if we're going to have to wait for it to be voted down before we get round two! Pity as I do think we're wasting time but I can see why some are waiting. I still think May will be pushed or forced out somewhere along the line as she's is trying to please everybody and that's simply not possible. Of course some suspect May's a complete lackey of the EU but I really do wonder if Boris isn't the real problem as he's just so undecided it's bizarre! 

 

Anyway it is a frenzy and it does show a lack of decisiveness and leadership from the tories so they're knackered for years to come. The draft is unravelling day-by-day and isn't even the issue anymore as nobody thinks it has any chance of being voted through. The truth will out and pretty soon I feel!  

[Patrick Brown]

 

Quote

The EU and UK have agreed a draft agreement on their future relationship, paving the way for a Brexit deal to be finalised this weekend.

The political declaration - outlining how trade, security and other issues will work - has been "agreed in principle", the European Council says.

London and Brussels have already agreed the draft terms of the UK's exit from the EU on 29 March 2019.

Theresa May will make a statement to MPs later on Thursday.

European Council President Donald Tusk said in a tweet: "I have just sent to EU27 a draft Political Declaration on the Future Relationship between EU and UK. The Commission President has informed me that it has been agreed at negotiators' level and agreed in principle at political level, subject to the endorsement of the leaders."

If the withdrawal agreement and the political declaration are signed off at an EU summit on Sunday, the prime minister will then turn her attention to getting the deal through the UK Parliament, where there is not thought to currently be a majority in favour of it.

It follows a meeting in Brussels on Wednesday evening between Mrs May and European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker.

Downing Street has repeatedly made clear that agreement is needed on the future framework in order to press ahead with the legally-binding withdrawal agreement.

The BBC's Brussels reporter Adam Fleming said, from a first reading of the draft document that has just been published, it contained "something for everyone" but there was "lots" in it that would need to be negotiated.

Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46300247

[Patrick Brown]

OK I just posted the above but already contradictory reports are coming through that the deal hasn't been finalised!! 

 

Of course it still needs to be voted through in parliament so there's a way to go and of course it won't get voted through anyway so it's all rather pointless! Merkel is still insisting that a no deal exist would be disastrous for the UK but this seems to be part of a concerted effort by the pro EU propaganda machine. 

[Miffymog]

For some time the media have been stating that the deal wont get through the Commons.

 

But recently they have also started adding that the House of Commons would never allow for a hard Brexit either.

 

This lead us towards, somehow,  not even leaving at all. Whether this path would include another general election or another referendum I don't know.

 

But just staying in the EU, for me, is just as likely as a hard Brexit, if not more so.

[Miffymog]

Mini Brexit update - after weeks of saying May's deal with the EU will definitely be voted down in the House of Commons in December, I've just heard the first media outlet say that she may be able to 'squeeze' it through.

 

If she can persuade enough people on both parties that any thing else would be chaos - ranging from leadership challenges, general elections to new referendums - who knows, may be we will end up being stuck with what she got ...

[rideforever]

"The withdrawal agreement is legally-binding - the political declaration is not."

 

This is beyond a joke.   PM May has spent all these months apologizing to the tune of 40 thousand million pounds and we are supposed to pay this in the Divorce agreement.
And the EU says .... don't worry after that it's gonna be all roses.
F********* you is the answer.

[Patrick Brown]

It does look as if we're not going to be allowed to leave! So there'll be no 'real' Brexit! Theresa May is, and I'm being nice here, SCUM! 

 

[rideforever]

Well .... I think this is really not very good.   And funnily enough TM's sort Christiany kissy kissy approach has failed so badly (madly) that I think it will really drive people away from that kind of Christian interpretation.
But just reading today ... can Article 50 be unilaterally withdrawn ? 
Maybe, maybe not.
So there could be trouble ahead if the ECJ says no.  Maybe they will say yes.
I honestly can't see unless the Commons are insane to proceed with burning 40 Bn sterling ... and a reverse course may not be possible.
Having an instant WTO Brexit is a possibility, but it will be wobbly.
What is coming up ... is the payment of £ 40,000,000,000 ... for nothing.
And I think the papers are going to notice the upcoming payment and I think the British people are not going to be happy, because mad they might be but they won't like that at all.
All that money with no future relationship ?
I can't see it happening.
But who knows.
Anyway humans are completely mad.