The Brexit Thread

[rideforever]

On 27/11/2018 at 12:35 PM, Miffymog said:

Can the EU courts get a definite answer back in time

 

What a f*****ing mess.
It's almost funny.
Corbyn's (Labour) problem is that many of his lower class traditional base wanted to leave, but the rest of their voters are the victim class who want to remain.... also for any leader to say no to the referendum would look bad.
May is bloody desperate, I think she will "look like a pro" (it's what she does) .... but that that is not going to be enough in my opinion, people are sick of her.   That's my guess.   But I suppose she is trying to convince the MPs who are voting on the 11th, in parliament on the deal.   Whatever she says to the camera, the MPs are the audience.
Corbyn .... he has a political job to do, to embarrass the Conservatives, to not embarrass the electorate, and not say anything provocative.
Which is difficult and also completely stupid as jobs go.
And he is not going to ask her any tough questions .... that is the joke of this debate, Corbyn vs May.
He is the only person in the country who won't ask her any difficult questions .... because frankly he prefers that she deals with the mess, the last thing he wants is to be in charge of this juggernaut.   So just a little embarrassment is all that he needs do, and May will happily bend over and take one for him as it suits her needs to.
It would be important to see if the TV format allows anyone else will ask questions.
This is the problem with lying, the lies just build up.
It all started when Merkel (soulless victim globalist) invited millions of foreigners to enter the EU illegally by just landing on a boat on the shore with no papers or process, and then live in the gutter across Europe.
( by the way this is required because of a failing economy and the need to replace the population )
My god, wtf is this.  Organised criminal activity by the EU.   
But nobody puts that point on TV, because the first rule of being on TV is to be a victim and want to heeellllllllllp everybody.
First agree to be a cowardly ignorant unintelligent see nothing victim .... only then do you get interviewed for the TV.
Hmmm.
As for the EU .... they are just waiting to be put out of their misery, probably the consumption of late night whisky amongst those alikes has shot through the roof.  (by shares imo)
It's all just one lie after another.
Or ... the world of the ego, torturing everyone.
One thing is for sure, is everybody hates everybody else now !!!!
That much has been accomplished !!!!
Remember the days when the British were so in love with Europe (before the EU) ...
 

 

Edited November 29, 2018 by rideforever

[Patrick Brown]

41 minutes ago, Stosh said:

Well yeah, article 50 makes it really pretty simple on your part, but one doesn't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The point of negotiating at all is that y'all want it to be least difficult and painful. All the countries you trade with are partners , in a way , they are mutually benefited by the trade , and so the EU should recognize that not letting go on pleasant terms is a problem for their remaining member states as well. 

The less nightmare the better. For us, the NAFTA was a dumb deal , but for yall a FTA may actually be the best thing , because of the number and varied sizes of the participants economies. Y'all want to keep your national identities and currencies and protect somewhat different cultures , so theres a limit to how 'federalized' an arrangement is acceptable. 

If the EU does crumble , that too presents problems , and it would be good to have an acceptable alternative already established. 

 

What you say is fair enough but the UK's government has had two years to bash out an amicable deal and have failed which perhaps has more to do with the EU. We voted to leave and we should and if that means the country has financial difficulties most people are prepared for that. 

 

I think whatever happens we will continue to trade with the EU but on our own terms as we will also be trading with the rest of the world so the EU will have to give us a good deal or we will simply trade elsewhere it's not complicated. Most people realise there will be a few bumps in the road when we actually leave and those that's don't are living in a fantasy world. 

 

The vast majority of people can see what's been going on which is Theresa May is doing the bidding of the EU and a group of buSINess people to keep us in the EU. Theresa May is a traitor as she is not carrying out the wishes of the British people and as such she is a marked women and she won't be forgotten for her traitorous acts.    

[Patrick Brown]

21 minutes ago, rideforever said:

One thing is for sure, is everybody hates everybody else now !!!!

 

I don't think that's true excepting the smaller poor countries of the EU who may be a bit resentful of us leaving. Most Europeans know what's going on and are probably jealous of us and hoping they can also escape the EU!  

[Apech]

49 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said:

 

I don't think that's true excepting the smaller poor countries of the EU who may be a bit resentful of us leaving. Most Europeans know what's going on and are probably jealous of us and hoping they can also escape the EU!  

 

 

Depends which country of course - but most Europeans are just bemused by Brexit and happy to stay in the EU, they are used to the European style of doing things.

[rideforever]

Okay, maybe it's just me that hates everything now !!!

 

Thing is that trade with new countries like Oz / India is a lot about courage confidence and vision, but TM's cowardice has done a lot to harm the global image of Britain ... really it's quite hard to understand the fear and negativity some Brits have about their country when it has a good profile overseas for many reasons.

 

Anyway, after I wrote that last post I had a strong fear trembling inside me .... and seen "spiritually" (actually) Brexit is a particular strain of the fear-disease infecting a large amount of people ... whilst what we should be doing is pouring out blessings on all life and on ourselves.

[rideforever]

Looks like TM is selecting Sunday 9th to do the TV thing .... leaving only 1 day before the vote.
Which is clever it leaves little time to realise that everything she says is completely meaningless.
And it puts more pressure on Corbyn because if he derails her on the 9th and the vote is lost on the 11th then the Tories can blame it on Corbyn.
However if for instance the TV thing was this weekend, then we would have a good week for the whole world and his dog to pull her apart and Corbyn would escape direct responsibility.
What she wants to do is kick everyone up the backside just before the firing squad .... an ancient British tradition before "going over the top" just to make sure no intelligence is used by anyone whilst walking to their doom !!!!
Will the yanks save us again ?

 

.
 

Edited November 29, 2018 by rideforever

[Chang]

1 hour ago, Apech said:

 

 

Depends which country of course - but most Europeans are just bemused by Brexit and happy to stay in the EU, they are used to the European style of doing things.

 

In other words thay are simply like sheep, hapless, ill fated and doomed.

[rideforever]

Man receives only that which he gives. The Game of Life is a game of boomerangs. Man's
thoughts, deeds and words, return to him sooner or later, with astounding accuracy. This is
the law of Karma, which is Sanskrit for "Comeback." "Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he
also reap."

 

"Bless your enemy, and you rob him of his ammunition." His arrows will be transmuted into
blessings.
 

"Keep thy heart (or imagination) with all diligence, for out of it are the issues of life." (Prov.
4:23.) This means that what man images, sooner or later externalizes in his affairs. I know of
a man who feared a certain disease. It was a very rare disease and difficult to get, but he
pictured it continually and read about it until it manifested in his body, and he died, the
victim of distorted imagination.

Florence Scovel Shinn

 

Hmm ..... I take it as a test 

 

 

 

[Chang]

50 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Looks like TM is selecting Sunday 9th to do the TV thing .... leaving only 1 day before the vote.
Which is clever it leaves little time to realise that everything she says is completely meaningless.
And it puts more pressure on Corbyn because if he derails her on the 9th and the vote is lost on the 11th then the Tories can blame it on Corbyn.
However if for instance the TV thing was this weekend, then we would have a good week for the whole world and his dog to pull her apart and Corbyn would escape direct responsibility.
What she wants to do is kick everyone up the backside just before the firing squad .... an ancient British tradition before "going over the top" just to make sure no intelligence is used by anyone whilst walking to their doom !!!!
Will the yanks save us again ?

 

.
 

 

A debate between Corbyn and Prime Drip May will serve neither party as both sides are firmly entrenched in their views.

 

Whilst May is the more capable debater and will soon have Corbyn tied up as regards the politics of brexit, Corbyn is the more emotive of the two and large elements of society will empathise with the horrible old Marxist.

 

Much talk from various angles in the Remainer Camp of another referendum on the grounds that the people must be allowed to decide. This was only to be expected as it is a common E.U. tactic to continue letting the people decide on a matter until they decide to do what the movers and shakers of the E.U. tyrany want. At the same time that well known servant of the global elite - Mark Carney - is spreading doom and gloom as though the end of the world is nigh.

 

All in all a damned fine mess which is getting messier by the hour.

[rideforever]

Bof ... it'll turn out like the MillenniumComputerBug

[Stosh]

3 hours ago, Patrick Brown said:

 

What you say is fair enough but the UK's government has had two years to bash out an amicable deal and have failed which perhaps has more to do with the EU. We voted to leave and we should and if that means the country has financial difficulties most people are prepared for that. 

 

I think whatever happens we will continue to trade with the EU but on our own terms as we will also be trading with the rest of the world so the EU will have to give us a good deal or we will simply trade elsewhere it's not complicated. Most people realize there will be a few bumps in the road when we actually leave and those that's don't are living in a fantasy world. 

 

The vast majority of people can see what's been going on which is Theresa May is doing the bidding of the EU and a group of business people to keep us in the EU. Theresa May is a traitor as she is not carrying out the wishes of the British people and as such she is a marked women and she won't be forgotten for her traitorous acts.    

Ok, but in voting to leave,  you put a pressure on your negotiators to make it happen, which puts them in a weak bargaining position. but  You can still leave the EU , and honor the brexit directive because ,a free trade area , as its described to me, returns independence ( re: currency ,economic, and social decision making )  to the UK,  but allows a more amicable trade situation- than by simply reverting-operating by WTO standards, where there is no preferential trade status at all ( to begin with).  

I read,, that TM wasn't all that keen on Brexit to begin with , and knowing that .. one might expect weak support from that direction. Getting a good handle on where Brits CAN agree , going forward ,, is the first wisest step. to visualize the true goal -can be more helpful than just endorsing or bashing individuals or parties. ( which I already understand to be juicy good fun ,, BUt ... )

 

 

Edited November 29, 2018 by Stosh

[rideforever]

46 minutes ago, Stosh said:

Ok, but in voting to leave,

Yes very reasonable, but the deal that tm has organised is not what you might imagine.  It is not a free trade deal.   We give 40bn quid - sort of paying in advance.   And then later on the EU will decide if they want a trade deal   But .... we have paid then cash.   So they can give us a bad deal and we'll be forced to take it.
Not only that but in the deal northern ireland the sovereignty over it is partially given to the eu, I shit you not.   It means that unless the eu wants to change Northern Ireland soveriegnty we can lose Norther Ireland.
It's beyond ridiculours.
We actually get nothing at all.
So basically if this deal went through then if we want a trade deal with then, when we negotiate, then hold against us 40 bn pounds and northern ireland.
What kind of a deal you gonna get when losing part of terriotory and all your money is at stake ?
You gonna get nothing.
We might even lose Gibraltar, be forced to accept fishing in our waters (whocares) and who knows what else.
We will be unable to refuse.
The alternative is simple.
Just leave.
Connect with the USA/AUS/NZ/CA.
And then lets see if German cars wish to be sold in the UK.
I have a feeling that tm might be somewhat suicidal and may be subconsciously organising a really bad deal so that end up remaining in the eu .... which would make me laugh.   But legally it is not known if we can just pull out now - that's in the ECJ courts right now.

Edited November 29, 2018 by rideforever

[Apech]

2 hours ago, Chang said:

 

In other words thay are simply like sheep, hapless, ill fated and doomed.

 

They are Europeans in a way that the British have never been.  This may go back to being more at the heart of the Roman empire and its governing principles - and though most of Britain was for a period part of this we were always more peripheral and have never in our history viewed a unified Europe as being a general good - in fact we saw it as threat and opposed any attempts to bring it into being (Napoleon, Hitler et al).  Just a thought

 

[Stosh]

18 hours ago, rideforever said:

Yes very reasonable, but the deal that tm has organised is not what you might imagine.  It is not a free trade deal.   We give 40bn quid - sort of paying in advance.   And then later on the EU will decide if they want a trade deal   But .... we have paid then cash.   So they can give us a bad deal and we'll be forced to take it.
Not only that but in the deal northern ireland the sovereignty over it is partially given to the eu, I shit you not.   It means that unless the eu wants to change Northern Ireland soveriegnty we can lose Norther Ireland.
It's beyond ridiculours.
We actually get nothing at all.
So basically if this deal went through then if we want a trade deal with then, when we negotiate, then hold against us 40 bn pounds and northern ireland.
What kind of a deal you gonna get when losing part of terriotory and all your money is at stake ?
You gonna get nothing.
We might even lose Gibraltar, be forced to accept fishing in our waters (whocares) and who knows what else.
We will be unable to refuse.
The alternative is simple.
Just leave.
Connect with the USA/AUS/NZ/CA.
And then lets see if German cars wish to be sold in the UK.
I have a feeling that tm might be somewhat suicidal and may be subconsciously organising a really bad deal so that end up remaining in the eu .... which would make me laugh.   But legally it is not known if we can just pull out now - that's in the ECJ courts right now.

Wow, I didn't know it was so screwed up already ! But...

 

Have I got this right? Ireland is no longer a British dominion ,but  y'all have an informal  agreement about citizens going back and forth. Y'all are not part of the Schengen Common travel area , as it is. 
 Gibraltar and the Channel tunnel will not be an EU/EEA land area after Brexit.
Its claimed that Ireland will be hit hardest if there is a no-agreement resolution to Brexit because they will lose automatic access to the single market ? huh
Why would they lose access to the single market if UK opts out , if they are an independent republic ? UK wouldn't be losing any part of the dominion , or Gibraltar.
I'm losing some clarity on what exactly would majorly change other than-  jurisdiction of EU courts , a temporary change in trade agreements - and 6 billion in dues. ??

 

 

Is there a keyword that can point me to where or when the said 'cash payment' was made to EU? I'm thinking none of that has been done as of yet , and the fishing rights are still under negotiation , so its just another chip, y'all can choose not to throw away that either. 

I'm thinking Dec 11 parliament decides whether they like the agreement , I think its a half-hearted Brexit , but if y'all decide not to accept this deal , then you just prepare for a hard departure in march ? which leaves you without debts or loss , but no special trade status with EU. No? 

 

So it seems that instead of handing over 37-60 billion pounds to EU for a trade deal , you pay for the increases in tariffs to your own people , until you Do have better trade deals. 

Edited November 30, 2018 by Stosh

[Miffymog]

'The number of Conservative MPs who have publicly declared they'll vote down May's deal has just crept up to 100' - Daily Mail

 

This means the PM could have as few as 225 votes in her corner - leaving 410 votes on the other side, a landslide majority 185.

 

Despite May's hard work going round the country trying to drum up support for her deal, I watched her get interviewed today and there was a real sense from her that it really is dead.

 

But more than that, I think she senses that she'll be removed as PM too.

 

Once the deal has been voted down, it seems to be accepted that there will be an attempt at some minor amendments and then a second vote. But the amendments, if any, will be so minor it wont make much difference to that vote either.

 

It will then get messy, leadership challenge, general election or new referendum, either way May will end up going down with her deal.

 

I just cant see the Conservatives wanting another general election, so they'll just have a leadership contest instead.

 

They can get one done within a couple of weeks without having to go to the general population.

 

How smoothly or otherwise, and who wins will determine the next phase. Could be a much stronger tie (Norway) or much weaker tie (Canada).

 

But if the process is really messy, that opens up the possibility of either another referendum or general election

 

... and that's my guess work / predictions ...

[Apech]

So .... suppose she loses the vote in December and then steps down to be replaced by a hard Brexiteer - then what?  They attempt a Hard Brexit without full Parliamentary support and get voted down too - so general Election and who knows who wins - if it's labour ... Corbyn goes back to Brussels with what exactly?  Asks for a delay period while we sort ourselves out probably.  Could go on for ever.

 

 

[Patrick Brown]

It's a mess because British politics is a mess and has been for a long time. There was a vote and the decision was to leave the EU yet because of fingers in pies and ulterior motives the will of the British people isn't being done by our leaders. If we don't leave the EU in March there will be civil unrest that much is a fact.

 

If nothing else shows how poisonous the EU is then this whole debacle certainly does. So we may be in trouble but we will survive but only if we extract ourselves from the clutches of this bunch of power pissed looneys! One things for sure we need the creation of another major political party as Lab and Con are both riddled with corruption and incompetence. 

[Apech]

1 hour ago, Patrick Brown said:

It's a mess because British politics is a mess and has been for a long time. There was a vote and the decision was to leave the EU yet because of fingers in pies and ulterior motives the will of the British people isn't being done by our leaders. If we don't leave the EU in March there will be civil unrest that much is a fact.

 

If nothing else shows how poisonous the EU is then this whole debacle certainly does. So we may be in trouble but we will survive but only if we extract ourselves from the clutches of this bunch of power pissed looneys! One things for sure we need the creation of another major political party as Lab and Con are both riddled with corruption and incompetence. 

 

Since 1066

 

I have some growing sympathy for May.  I know she appears muddled and incoherent - weak in fact - but you have to remember that she actually took on the leadership when no-one else would or could.  She did support Remain (which has many arguments for it - Brexit is not really a black and white decision it's a judgement call based on assumptions about the future) - so it must be quite difficult to govern on a mandate which you don't whole heartedly agree with.  The pressure must be enormous from the various factions which want different outcomes.  It is probably this, more than May's own weakness' which has led to the cobbled together 'deal'.  It is the worst of both worlds kind of a thing.  But in the end it is all we've got at the moment.  The future is so murky it makes everything unstable and with this will come economic turbulence and bad governance.

 

 

[Miffymog]

3 hours ago, Apech said:

So .... suppose she loses the vote in December and then steps down to be replaced by a hard Brexiteer - then what?  They attempt a Hard Brexit without full Parliamentary support and get voted down too - so general Election and who knows who wins - if it's labour ... Corbyn goes back to Brussels with what exactly?  Asks for a delay period while we sort ourselves out probably.  Could go on for ever.

 

 

 

Yes - long term we may well be even closer to the EU than May's deal, or not even leave at all. And the EU will happily facilitate our return to their fold.

 

[Marblehead]

1 minute ago, Miffymog said:

 

Yes - long term we may well be even closer to the EU than May's deal, or not even leave at all. And the EU will happily facilitate our return to their fold.

 

Y'all got to leave.  The EU must be broken.

 

[Patrick Brown]

1 hour ago, Marblehead said:

Y'all got to leave.  The EU must be broken.

 

 

That's a statement of fact! 

 

Yes it's very broken and always has been!!

[Patrick Brown]

This is just bonkers: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46399688

Quote

The government is paying to promote Theresa May's Brexit deal on Google - but is facing a battle with opponents of the deal using very similar headlines.

 

The Cabinet Office says it will reveal how much is being spent to push the government's message to the top of the rankings when people search "what is the Brexit deal?".

 

However, we may not find out until after MPs vote on the deal next month.

 

And the government ad keeps being knocked off the top spot by a campaign group called "Britain's Future", which says May's deal betrays Brexit.

 

The government page says "if we reject this deal, we will go back to square one".

 

[Patrick Brown]

And this is even more bonkers: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-46414207

Quote

A Labour frontbencher has quit her role to "support family" after events surrounding her son's drugs conviction.

 

Shadow international development secretary Kate Osamor stepped down weeks after she was reported to Parliament's standards watchdog.

 

Her son Ishmael Osamor admitted in October to having £2,500-worth of drugs at Bestival in Dorset last year.

 

Ms Osamor's resignation follows allegations of misconduct made by a national newspaper.

 

In a statement on Twitter, the Edmonton MP said it had been a "difficult time".

 

"I remain fully committed to our programme for creating a society that works for the many, not the privileged few, and will continue to campaign for this from the backbenches," Ms Osamor added.

 

 

[Patrick Brown]

Forget knives for the civil war let's get a gun, err, even more bonkers than any of the above news items: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2018/11/something-crazy-happened-parliament-last-night-and-no-one-talking-about-it

 

Quote

Something truly remarkable happened last night in the House of Commons: facing a rebellion by pro-Brexit Conservatives in the European Research Group, the government U-turned on plans to ban assault rifles, amending its own legislation to strip references to the dangerous devices from the Offensive Weapons Bill.

 

Although the United Kingdom already has fairly tight restrictions on who can own and use firearms outside Northern Ireland, and heavy restrictions on how much ammo can be bought, the police have asked for these new restrictions to help get new and dangerous hardware off the street.

 

There are a couple of really striking political sub-plots here: the first, of course, is that it is indicative of how dysfunctional this parliament has become. The government can’t even – in a country in which support for gun control is near-universal, when a ban has been called for by the police, when there is notionally cross-party support for the measure – successfully ban assault rifles.

 

But the second is that it is a strikingly bad strategic choice on the part of the following groups: the European Research Group, Theresa May’s government, and Conservative backbenchers.

 

[Patrick Brown]

And we shouldn't forget the french which have been rioting for over three weeks now as even the people there think Macron is an arsehole! We don't hear very much about this in the UK as there's almost a news blackout here! I wonder why?