The Brexit Thread

[Miffymog]

41 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Some good news, I ... think.
Seems UK can unilaterally revoke Article 50, which is much better than if the EU was involved in that then we would be between a rock and a hard place ... it strengthens our hand and always good to have a plan Z.

Other good thing is that everyone seems to have cottoned on to N.Ireland being under permanent EU jurisdiction under the proposed deal, which I am happy about .... clarity is always good.

It's also quite sunny today !!!

As for Germany !  Well Brits seem much closer to the Germans in certain ways then to the French for instance, shame they never got it together imo.

 

Yes, yes.

__________

I was talking to a Polish co-worker the other day and I said that in 2016 I voted to leave, but I'm not sure what I would do if they had another referendum.

She said is this because I did not realise the negative effects on Britain if we left.

I said no.

At the time I thought if we left, our industry and economy would have to go through 10 years of very painful restructuring, but after that we would have our own sovereignty for the next 100 /1000 years and in the long term that would definitely be worth it.

I still believe this is the case, but I would have to reconsider what I would vote for now because my own circumstances have changed.

 

One - I am having to go through a tough period at the moment and I am making progress by letting go of what I thought I was. If I apply this to the referendum, it would now be easier for me to let go of what I thought being English meant.

 

Two - I'm looking for employment in a new career, and that will not be easy if we start going through a recession.

 

Three - I'm not as confident about things now as I was 2 year ago, and there is more short term security for me with us staying in the EU.

 

So I would probably vote remain in a second referendum. There is a definite sadness there as returning to the EU really would signify the end of a type of 'Britishness'. It will be very sad that we tried to leave but failed, but I will now, probably, vote to stay.

 

[Chang]

9 minutes ago, Miffymog said:

 

Yes, yes.

__________

I was talking to a Polish co-worker the other day and I said that in 2016 I voted to leave, but I'm not sure what I would do if they had another referendum.

She said is this because I did not realise the negative effects on Britain if we left.

I said no.

At the time I thought if we left, our industry and economy would have to go through 10 years of very painful restructuring, but after that we would have our own sovereignty for the next 100 /1000 years and in the long term that would definitely be worth it.

I still believe this is the case, but I would have to reconsider what I would vote for now because my own circumstances have changed.

 

One - I am having to go through a tough period at the moment and I am making progress by letting go of what I thought I was. If I apply this to the referendum, it would now be easier for me to let go of what I thought being English meant.

 

Two - I'm looking for employment in a new career, and that will not be easy if we start going through a recession.

 

Three - I'm not as confident about things now as I was 2 year ago, and there is more short term security for me with us staying in the EU.

 

So I would probably vote remain in a second referendum. There is a definite sadness there as returning to the EU really would signify the end of a type of 'Britishness'. It will be very sad that we tried to leave but failed, but I will now, probably, vote to stay.

 

 

Most amusing. Thank you.

[rideforever]

I don't think so.  If the pound falls then we can still trade competitively with the EU, only difference is a few forms.
I think the EU (in my view) is not going to be healthy in the short term either.
More interesting ... and you know these things are a lot about confidence ... is that the 2nd world is gentrifying and that's where the growth markets are, that's were we need to go.  Plus reuniting with our natural anglo allies around the world not just trade-wise but culturally could be very good for many many reasons.
But .... one has to learn to make it in any sea, and not live in a "lack" mindset ... ultimately God is in charge of this entire domain.
I was watching Nicholas Von Hoogstraeton (UK millionaire) the other day and he doesn't wear fancy clothes, just bog standard.
No more preening oneself with stupid luxuries, and get busy were the doors are open.
Then the UK can be the valley of the universe open to all rather than fortress Brussels.
Plus changes to the money supply - if the city does something with cryptocurrency- and let's not forget we've got Harry Potter and the Premier League on our side.
So that's my vote.
But if we go back into the EU and the country is filled with people then my property value is going to go up, so ... whatever.
I meditate every day and practice the death of the body, so I have no illusions.
The 10,000 will continue vomiting over this world ... but there are so few people here who are interested in the Source that they are relatively well looked after, probably by the Source.
And you can also take the view that life is simply learning through it's disastrous mistakes, forgive everyone, and just learn the next lesson and every lesson before the eyes shut for the last time.
Plus the world will look very different in David Davis is sitting in that chair, he oozes charm and confidence.

[Patrick Brown]

If we don't leave it will simply mean a few greedy power mongers will have won and we will be even more enslaved than we ever were. Of course for those that like carrots will be very happy until the feast commences! If we stay the UK will be broken and chaos will soon follow. Hey it's bad enough as it is for those that are awake! 

[Chang]

9 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said:

If we don't leave it will simply mean a few greedy power mongers will have won and we will be even more enslaved than we ever were. Of course for those that like carrots will be very happy until the feast commences! If we stay the UK will be broken and chaos will soon follow. Hey it's bad enough as it is for those that are awake! 

 

Your last sentence sums things up in a nutshell. Alas those who are awake are few and far between whilst those like the turncoat miffymog are numbered in legions. There are non so blind as those who cannot see and all of our arguments fall on deaf ears.

 

The good news is that there are still plenty of laughs to be had from the comedians who are running the show. The bad news is that at the end of the day we will find that the joke is on us.

[Miffymog]

48 minutes ago, Chang said:

 

Your last sentence sums things up in a nutshell. Alas those who are awake are few and far between whilst those like the turncoat miffymog are numbered in legions. There are non so blind as those who cannot see and all of our arguments fall on deaf ears.

 

The good news is that there are still plenty of laughs to be had from the comedians who are running the show. The bad news is that at the end of the day we will find that the joke is on us.

 

I have turned my coat!

I have.

And I have decided to declare this, rather than argue for a side I will no longer follow myself.

Damn my weakness and blindness

[Apech]

3 hours ago, rideforever said:

Some good news, I ... think.
Seems UK can unilaterally revoke Article 50, which is much better than if the EU was involved in that then we would be between a rock and a hard place ... it strengthens our hand and always good to have a plan Z.

Other good thing is that everyone seems to have cottoned on to N.Ireland being under permanent EU jurisdiction under the proposed deal, which I am happy about .... clarity is always good.

It's also quite sunny today !!!

As for Germany !  Well Brits seem much closer to the Germans in certain ways then to the French for instance, shame they never got it together imo.

 

 

Revoking Art. 50 means remaining in the EU.  

 

Why do you want to be closer to Germans?  They are very collectivist and do not really share our western liberal values - but they make good cars and cameras it is true.

 

 

[Miffymog]

 

21 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

 

Revoking Art. 50 means remaining in the EU.  

 

Why do you want to be closer to Germans?  They are very collectivist and do not really share our western liberal values - but they make good cars and cameras it is true.

 

 

I will now (badly) argue for remain!

 

May's deal left us in a weaker position than when we were part of the EU.

 

Our services were not included in May's deal, which would mean the gradual erosion of the city of London as our financial institutions would not have as easy access to the EU markets.

 

Our goods were included in May's deal, which means we could trade with a low friction border, but we would have no say on any rules governing these goods.

 

This is what was offered because the EU looks after itself and wanted to take away our financial power, but keep trading with us to make money from us. If we are in the EU, we then become a protected party.

 

edit

 

ps - lets not even get into the Irish backstop position.

 

pps - nor how the French will simply block the port of Dover with sluggish border checks.

 

ppps - but I will ignore how a whole raft of Dutch and Danish ports were jumping at the chance to provide smooth border checks for us after a potential hard Brexit.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Miffymog

[Miffymog]

More 'pro' EU stuff

 

The EU, due to its size as a trading block, is actually strong enough to challenge the global corporations such as Apple and Google, the UK can never do this.

 

Plus leaving is hitting the scientific community in terms of access to funding and co-operation, this includes both space programs and general research.

 

London was also the head quarters for various European Medical centers, they're all leaving now.

 

Edited December 4, 2018 by Miffymog

[rideforever]

Well I think the problem is simply Maastricht.  The EU is the problem.  imo the whole immigration thing, what is represents, is that the EU is trying to demonstrate that it is in control and it demonstrates this by inflicting something so ridiculous upon everybody.   It's the only way it can show it is in control.   And it is an abstract entity with no blood / family connection to European people it is simply ideology .... or the false self, and will necessarily destroy everything.  It represents nobody except its own falseness.
In truth Britain / Germany / France / Italy is a very well balanced "being", like a person with different aspects.
And I am afraid the whole thing is being destroyed.
imo the EU now is simply a frontend for the corporate carving up and plundering of the ancient wealth of Europe.
But hey.
Hold to the centre, trust the Tao, become a valley to all things, carve the line through the centre and watch it cleave apart ... there is nothing fixed in this world of change, there are always ways as long as we dont' become stagnant and demanding that which life cannot give us .... do what is required, take what is given, take that which is yours to be taken, and glide through, nobody what it is, be part of the flow of existence, now and forever more.

[Apech]

 

[Miffymog]

41 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

 

Yes, yes, yes. Democracy, democracy, democracy.

 

We get to vote for our own local councilors, our MP's and our MEPs.

 

Rights and responsibilities.

In 2017, 44% of all UK exports went to the EU and 53% of our imports came from them. They are a single trading block. If we abide by their rules (many of which we ourselves came up with), the trade is frictionless.

 

The Mini car that is made in the UK has a transmission and gear shaft goes back and forwards across the UK/EU border 12 times before its put in the car. This happens due to frictionless borders.

 

May's deal leaves us in a weaker position than being a member. Hard Brexit decimates our car industry.

[rideforever]

Just now, Miffymog said:

times

 

Whats the new career ?

[Miffymog]

2 minutes ago, rideforever said:

 

Whats the new career ?

 

Ha ha - good question. I've just qualified as an IT technician and I'm now learning how to develop websites. This may not really be effected by Brexit, but I definitely would like a more buoyant economy.

[Chang]

We appear to be losing sight of the wood for the trees here by which I mean that matters of small concern are taking centre stage whilst those of greater concern are being overlooked.

 

1. The European Union is a Cultural Marxist organisation whose aim is to create a homogenized, multi cultural and multi ethnic Europe. They have already progressed a long way down this road and it is their intention to go much further.

 

2. The E.U. by its very nature is doomed to failure and collapse. The cracks are already appearing and it is only a matter of time before its very foundations begin to fail. Unfortunately it will be a prolonged death scene resembling a ham actor in a farce and its death throes will continue to cause harm for a prolonged period.

 

So by all means lose your nerve, wail, gnash your teeth, tear your hair and press for the U.K. to remain subject to the European tyrany. Those of independent mind will always form the minority who watch bemused whilst the common herd run like lemmings towards the cliff edge. This is simply democracy at work. Interesting times and many good laughs to be had yet before all this nonsense is over.

 

 

[Miffymog]

19 minutes ago, Chang said:

1. The European Union is a Cultural Marxist organisation whose aim is to create a homogenized, multi cultural and multi ethnic Europe. They have already progressed a long way down this road and it is their intention to go much further.

 

 

Yes, yes yes. This is absolutely correct. Many years ago I was always happy to declare myself as English, British and European. The European part was unusual in my peer group.

I will go on and say that removing/letting go of cultural identity may not be a bad thing.

 

19 minutes ago, Chang said:

2. The E.U. by its very nature is doomed to failure and collapse. The cracks are already appearing and it is only a matter of time before its very foundations begin to fail. Unfortunately it will be a prolonged death scene resembling a ham actor in a farce and its death throes will continue to cause harm for a prolonged period.

 

 

Realistically, I’m not so sure. Yes, the German economy is getting perilously close to a recession due to all fines the Americans have put on their car industry after cheating emission tests. This is part of the tit-for-tat between the EU and the USA. And if the German economy, which holds up the EU, was to really falter, then the EU project would be at threat. But this is pretty much a temporary blip. So I can’t see the EU collapsing.

 

19 minutes ago, Chang said:

So by all means lose your nerve, wail, gnash your teeth, tear your hair and press for the U.K. to remain subject to the European tyrany. Those of independent mind will always form the minority who watch bemused whilst the common herd run like lemmings towards the cliff edge. This is simply democracy at work. Interesting times and many good laughs to be had yet before all this nonsense is over.

 

 

 

Indeed. Until another possible referendum, I have no effect on what's happening, so it's best just to sit back and watch. It is definitely the most interesting thing on tv at the moment.

[rideforever]

Here is a truth : if some of the British cab-drivers with their innate practical wisdom where to go to Brussels and run the place for a few months they could sort all the problems out, although a lot of Brussels might find themselves out of Champagne, and there would be magic trees everywhere.
That's what the EU most needs is a British kick up the arse.
Trump I believe is trying to help Britain, but May only knows how to play her violin cluelessly.

[rideforever]

Anyway I would be up for the UK Gov to form a new group of National Leaders esp from the South to campaign for EU resturing involving firing half the staff there and fixing all the economic problems and criminalising illegal migration.
In other words .... Crazy Ivan.

[Miffymog]

Bugger me - just been 311 vs 307 against the government on a small issue to do with the EU. This has been very close, but it really does signal lots of turmoil to come over the next week.

[Apech]

1 minute ago, Miffymog said:

Bugger me - just been 311 vs 307 against the government on a small issue to do with the EU. This has been very close, but it really does signal lots of turmoil to come over the next week.

 

Its not a small issue - its about releasing the legal advice on Brexit.

[Miffymog]

Just now, Apech said:

 

Its not a small issue - its about releasing the legal advice on Brexit.

 

Very true. Just trying to give it a bit of perspective for those who are not familiar with whats going on (when compared to the vote late on).

[rideforever]

Once the legal advice comes out ... no way the "Deal" will go through, Gov will probably cancel the vote on Monday and the Sunday night televised.
Then ... maybe May will go.
Wow ... this is a great movie !!!!!

 

Now the Gov is told to immediately publish the document .... which I guess Geoffrey Cox says somewhere in it that we may lose N.Ireland sovereignty in permanence and it be held against us during negotiations.  

Edited December 4, 2018 by rideforever

[Miffymog]

2 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Once the legal advice comes out ... no way the "Deal" will go through, Gov will probably cancel the vote on Monday and the Sunday night televised.
Then ... maybe May will go.
Wow ... this is a great movie !!!!!

 

My god - this is crazy. The attorney general may well lose his job. The future of our whole constitution is being played out ...

[rideforever]

Nah, it's only a document, no big deal.   Can't expect anything less.   Besides they wrapped up the matter in a few hours, everyone can move on.
Although I must say last night I was finding great comfort in the fact that this life won't last forever !!!

[Miffymog]

 

3 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Nah, it's only a document, no big deal.   Can't expect anything less.   Besides they wrapped up the matter in a few hours, everyone can move on.
Although I must say last night I was finding great comfort in the fact that this life won't last forever !!!

 

Not quite, this is pretty much becoming British history. But I hope your impermanence of life experience last night was a good one rather than a bad one