The Brexit Thread

[Patrick Brown]

I'm sure a few others will be getting in on the act!

 

[Patrick Brown]

5 minutes ago, Chang said:

hence the rise in Nationalism

 

I though it was the rise of populism or is that going to be suppressed by the, err, left wing!? No sorry I meant the right leg!! 

 

Well it's a headless thing whatever it is! 

[Chang]

3 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said:

 

I though it was the rise of populism or is that going to be suppressed by the, err, left wing!? No sorry I meant the right leg!! 

 

Well it's a headless thing whatever it is! 

 

Populism

Political ideology

Description

Populism is a range of political approaches that deliberately appeal to 'the people', often juxtaposing this group against the "elite". There is no single definition of the term, which developed in the 19th century and has been used to mean various things since that time.

 

At the moment in the West "Populism" is of the Right. Unfortunately (or fortunately so far as the ruling elite are concerned) we in the U.K. do not appear to have a figure who can be described as remotely popular with "the people."

[Patrick Brown]

9 minutes ago, Chang said:

 

Populism

Political ideology

Description

Populism is a range of political approaches that deliberately appeal to 'the people', often juxtaposing this group against the "elite". There is no single definition of the term, which developed in the 19th century and has been used to mean various things since that time.

 

At the moment in the West "Populism" is of the Right. Unfortunately (or fortunately so far as the ruling elite are concerned) we in the U.K. do not appear to have a figure who can be described as remotely popular with "the people."

 

That's what I thought. Bit like what happened to liberalism as the main parties, specifically labour, just thought they could up their vote by taking all the minorities on board. So in a truer sense of populism are we about to enter the era of celebrity politicians, you know like soft puppets rather than robots!? 

 

Edited January 29, 2019 by Patrick Brown

[Patrick Brown]

That Gove sure does get around:

 

[Patrick Brown]

Just thinking how completely bonkers our corrupt leaders are.

 

So if you don't believe that 6 Million Jews died in concentration camps and propose the possibility that the figures have been somewhat exaggerated then most of these elect few may frown upon you.

 

If you believe that Jesus existed and was the son of God then most of these elect few will frown upon you.  

 

If you believe that democracy is outdated and that enlightened beings are among us and can lead us into the promised land then about half of these elect few would agree! 

 

If you point out that the EU referendum resulted in the majority of the population of this country choosing to leave but somehow that's irrelevant because they didn't understand what they were voting for most of these elect few would agree!!! 

 

Let's surmise a response from a question to the UK population:

 

Question: What will happen if the UK government keeps us in the EU against the will of, the majority of, the British people thereby ignoring the result of the referendum?

 

Answer: What government?

 

 

[Apech]

They're voting on something - no idea what.  But the noes have it, the noes have it.  

[Patrick Brown]

Well Cooper didn't get 'bugger all'! Brady has something up not sure what it is but might be in his purple pants! 

[Apech]

3 hours ago, Patrick Brown said:

Well Cooper didn't get 'bugger all'! Brady has something up not sure what it is but might be in his purple pants! 

 

 

Complete waste of time ... because ...

 

 

[Patrick Brown]

Well the EU have said in the past and this women stated again yesterday that the agreement is not open for debate so it looks as if we're leaving without a deal. 

 

Of course there'll be some arguments and more bogus votes but it looks like a no deal exit to me. Of course they might want to ignore the public and allow the riots to begin but that will simply fuel the flames of what might end up being perpetual civil unrest. Nearly three months of riots in France and it doesn't look as if they will be abating anytime soon!  

 

Of course British politics has been destroyed and will never be the same again but that's probably a good thing. In fact if there was ever a perfect time to launch a new political party it's now! I've very little doubt that a well organised new party would do very well at a general election. 

[Patrick Brown]

Well May has packed her dancing shoes together with a couple of jars of apple sauce for the party!

 

 

[Patrick Brown]

Quote

Europe 'coming apart before our eyes', say 30 top intellectuals
Group of historians and writers publish manifesto warning against rise of populism

 

Liberal values in Europe face a challenge “not seen since the 1930s”, leading intellectuals from 21 countries have said, as the UK lurches towards Brexit and nationalists look set to make sweeping gains in EU parliamentary elections.

The group of 30 writers, historians and Nobel laureates declared in a manifesto published in several newspapers, including the Guardian, that Europe as an idea was “coming apart before our eyes”.

“We must now will Europe or perish beneath the waves of populism,” the document reads. “We must rediscover political voluntarism or accept that resentment, hatred and their cortege of sad passions will surround and submerge us.”

They write of their regret that Europe has been “abandoned from across the Channel” – an oblique reference to the drawn-out Brexit process that has arguably brought Anglo-European relations to their lowest point since the second world war.

And they say that unless efforts are made to combat a rising tide of populism, the EU elections will be “the most calamitous that we have ever known: victory for the wreckers; disgrace for those who still believe in the legacy of Erasmus, Dante, Goethe, and Comenius; disdain for intelligence and culture; explosions of xenophobia and antisemitism; disaster”.

“Abandoned from across the Channel and from across the Atlantic by the two great allies who in the previous century saved it twice from suicide; vulnerable to the increasingly overt manipulations of the master of the Kremlin, Europe as an idea, as will and representation, is coming apart before our eyes,” the text reads.

The 800-word paean was drafted by the French philosopher Bernard-Henri Lévy. Signatories included the novelists Ian McEwan and Salman Rushdie, the historian Simon Schama and the Nobel prize laureates Svetlana Alexievitch, Herta Müller, Orhan Pamuk and Elfriede Jelinek.

 

Rushdie told the Guardian: “Europe is in greater danger now than at any time in the last 70 years, and if one believes in that idea it’s time to stand up and be counted.

 

“In the UK, I hope parliament may yet have the courage to call for a second referendum. That could rescue the country from the calamity of Brexit and go a long way towards rescuing the EU as well.”

McEwan said he had signed the manifesto because he was “very pessimistic” about the current moment, “but try to be hopeful that the zeitgeist will turn”.

 

Pamuk said the idea of Europe was also important to non-western countries. “Without the idea of Europe, freedom, women’s rights, democracy, egalitarianism is hard to defend in my part of the world.

“The historical success of Europe made it easier to defend these ideas and values which are crucial to humanity all over the world,” he said. “There is no Europe besides these values except the Europe of tourism and business. Europe is not a geography first but these ideas. This idea of Europe is under attack.”

In theEU elections in May – the first that will not include Britain – most observers predict a rise in support for populist, nationalist or anti-immigration parties. Many of them have made significant gains in national elections, as the centre-right and centre-left that have traditionally dominated Europe’s postwar politics retreat.

Matteo Salvini of Italy’s far-right League has described the vote as a straight choice between “the Europe of the elites, banks, finance, immigration and precarious work” and that of “the people and of labour”, pledging to form a Eurosceptic “Italian-Polish axis”

Hungary’s prime minister, Viktor Orbán, has said the elections are a chance to bid farewell “to liberal democracy”. Unlike Eurosceptics in the UK, most European counterparts do not want to leave the EU but to take it over.

Leading the charge against the resurgent rightwing populists are the French president, Emmanuel Macron, and the German chancellor, Angela Merkel. While both have been weakened by domestic problems, this week they renewed their countries’ vows of postwar friendship and warned the lessons of their bloody past were being forgotten.

EU officials in Brussels believe it is possible there will be a decisive advance for the populists and gains for pro-European parties, or at least a confusing mix of the two, leaving the populists significantly stronger, but still facing a strong, if disunited, majority of pro-European MEPs.

 

The net result is likely to be a far more complex parliamentary makeup, delicate coalition-building, and a European parliament increasingly unable to pass legislation to deal with major challenges, such as immigration and eurozone reform.

While they did not make any practical calls to action, the manifesto’s signatories said they “refuse to resign themselves to this looming catastrophe”. They counted themselves among the “too quiet” European patriots who understand that “three-quarters of a century after the defeat of fascism and 30 years after the fall of the Berlin wall, a new battle for civilisation is under way”.

Despite its “mistakes, its lapses, and its occasional acts of cowardice”, Europe remains “a beacon for every free man and woman on the planet”, they say, noting with regret the widely held but mistaken belief of their generation that “the continent would come together on its own, without our labour”.

 

Pro-Europeans “no longer have a choice”, they say. “We must sound the alarm against the arsonists of soul and spirit that, from Paris to Rome, with stops in Barcelona, Budapest, Dresden, Vienna, or Warsaw, are playing with the fire of our freedoms.”

The signatories are: Vassilis Alexakis, Svetlana Alexievitch, Anne Applebaum, Jens Christian Grøndahl, David Grossman, Agnès Heller, Elfriede Jelinek, Ismaïl Kadaré, György Konrád, Milan Kundera, Bernard-Henri Lévy, António Lobo Antunes, Claudio Magris, Ian McEwan, Herta Müller, Lyudmila Ulitskaya, Orhan Pamuk, Rob Riemen, Salman Rushdie, Fernando Savater, Roberto Saviano, Eugenio Scalfari, Simon Schama, Peter Schneider, Abdulah Sidran, Leïla Slimani, Colm Tóibín, Mario Vargas Llosa, Adam Michnik and Adam Zagajewski.

 

• This article was amended on 28 January 2019 to correct a misquote from the manifesto.

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/25/europe-coming-apart-before-our-eyes-say-30-top-intellectuals

 

[Patrick Brown]

And even though I sense a degree of bias towards remain this article does point out how bizarre the antics of our government/politicians are: 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/30/brexit-political-class-politicians 

 

Edited January 30, 2019 by Patrick Brown

[Patrick Brown]

Can someone explain why all these borders between non EU countries work as I'm sure there aren't physical walls dividing them?  

 

[Chang]

Behold the Deputy E.U. Brexit Negotiator Sabine Weyand. Named as one of the ten most powerful women in Brussels she is in fact an unelected bureaucrat - one of the New Unhappy Lords of Cultural Marxism. The section on her education and career are of particular interest as she has no experience whatever in the "real world" but has spent her entire life as a student or E.U. bureaucrat.

 

Sabine Weyand (born 1964)^[1] is a senior EU official, of German nationality. She has played a prominent role in trade negotiations, as an EU co-negotiator for the TTIP and CETA agreements, and in 2016 was selected to be EU deputy chief negotiator for Brexit, acting as second to EU negotiator Michel Barnier. In the wake of this appointment the Politico news website listed her as one of the ten most influential women in Brussels,^[2] while her interaction with her British opposite number Oliver Robbins has been described as "the real engine room" of the Brexit process.^[3][4]

Education and Career

Weyand was a student at the University of Freiburg from 1983, studying Political Science, Economics, English and Linguistics, including a year of study at the University of Cambridge from 1986 to 1987. In 1991 she received her diploma in Advanced European Studies from the College of Europe and in 1995 she received her doctorate in political science from the University of Tübingen. The topic of her dissertation was the common transport policy of the EU.^[5]

[Patrick Brown]

And the elephant in the room is that she's German! 

 

No fuel for conspiracies there then!! 

[Chang]

7 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said:

Can someone explain why all these borders between non EU countries work as I'm sure there aren't physical walls dividing them?  

 

 

But Ireland is a special case.

 

My own view is that we should have not been so amenable to the Republic of Ireland and should have stated in no uncertain terms that the U.K. was leaving the E.U.  whilst they were remaining within it. It would now be an unfortunate fact that the UK was positioned between Ireland and Europe and they had best tread very carefully in any dealings with us. Unfortunately our pathetic leaders would never dream of doing such a thing but bend over to be buggered by allcomers.

[Chang]

1 minute ago, Patrick Brown said:

And the elephant in the room is that she's German! 

 

No fuel for conspiracies there then!! 

 

At least she will have a good sense of humour.

[Patrick Brown]

1 minute ago, Chang said:

 

At least she will have a good sense of humour.

 

Well and be a complete whore in the bedroom, not to stereotype of course! 

[Apech]

17 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said:

Can someone explain why all these borders between non EU countries work as I'm sure there aren't physical walls dividing them?  

 

 

There are border controls between say Russia and Poland - maybe not a continuous wall but definitely road barriers and so on.  Norway is a bit different but it is in the custom union.

[Apech]

7 minutes ago, Chang said:

 

But Ireland is a special case.

 

My own view is that we should have not been so amenable to the Republic of Ireland and should have stated in no uncertain terms that the U.K. was leaving the E.U.  whilst they were remaining within it. It would now be an unfortunate fact that the UK was positioned between Ireland and Europe and they had best tread very carefully in any dealings with us. Unfortunately our pathetic leaders would never dream of doing such a thing but bend over to be buggered by allcomers.

 

 

What tear up the Good Friday agreement which states no hard border?

[Patrick Brown]

2 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

There are border controls between say Russia and Poland - maybe not a continuous wall but definitely road barriers and so on.  Norway is a bit different but it is in the custom union.

 

But what's the big deal? Are the EU worried that thousands of tons of horse meat is going to be leaked into the EU, hidden in tins of curry of course! We all understand the idea of standards but as large vehicles use main highways they can easily be checked if needed. Just seems like an excuse especially when we consider that the UK and Ireland are modern countries.  

[Apech]

1 minute ago, Patrick Brown said:

 

But what's the big deal? Are the EU worried that thousands of tons of horse meat is going to be leaked into the EU, hidden in tins of curry of course! We all understand the idea of standards but as large vehicles use main highways they can easily be checked if needed. Just seems like an excuse especially when we consider that the UK and Ireland are modern countries.  

 

 

Where you have a boundary between two countries where different custom tariffs, different standards/laws and regulations apply then you have to have border checks - if we remain in the customs union then no need for checks as these things remain the same.

[Patrick Brown]

5 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

 

What tear up the Good Friday agreement which states no hard border?

 

I think the pressure to sort this out should be on the EU and Ireland not the British. Basically if they can't sort it out then Ireland may have to leave the EU or risk not trading with the UK, period! That'll upset a few people. We're relaxed about it, it's the EU that are coming up with excuses. 

[Apech]

1 minute ago, Patrick Brown said:

 

I think the pressure to sort this out should be on the EU and Ireland not the British. Basically if they can't sort it out then Ireland may have to leave the EU or risk not trading with the UK, period! That'll upset a few people. We're relaxed about it, it's the EU that are coming up with excuses. 

 

 

Britain is a signatory to the Good Friday Agreement which says no hard border.  Ireland as EU member has no customs borders between itself and other EU nations.  So to leave the EU the UK has either to comply with the Good Friday Agreement or break that treaty which it is committed not to do - also the Tories depend on the DUP to whom this is a major issue.