The Brexit Thread

[Patrick Brown]

This guy has a way of putting things in a nutshell. 

 

 

[Miffymog]

2 hours ago, rideforever said:

I think TM is looking to lose and then can step down, I hope so anyway.
What happened to the 1922 Committee ?
I suppose nobody wants to captain the ship afterwards.
But anyway my money would be on putting Davis/ Raab in and see what they come up with.

 

Hmm - she is being advised by those loyal to her to postpone the vote as they know she'll lose and risk bringing down the government with votes of no confidence.

 

She is ploughing on any. She knows she can't go back to the EU to get any amendments, (or if there are they will still make no difference). But she will already decided on her plan of action ...

 

She'll want to try to stay in power and see this through one way or another, I think her remainer colours will come out and she will steer things to a new referendum ...

[Patrick Brown]

People are ready for the uprising and it will be the establishments fault for trying to subvert the will of the people. If anyone thought France was extreme they haven't seen anything yet! 

 

TM will go down in UK history as the most duplicitous leader this country has ever had, yes even beating Blair. I personally can't see anyway forward other than a very extended period of civil unrest. 

[Miffymog]

Yes.

 

However, as I've I learnt a few days ago with Dominic Grieve, sometimes politics takes steps forwards in the most subtle of ways.

 

The referendum result can never be over turned with out a second referendum.

 

Now, returning it back to the people again is ignoring their original vote, but doing so does mean everyone gets to have another say with a great deal of extra information they didn't have the first time round.

 

The thing is, of course, what would the options be if there was another one ...

Edited December 7, 2018 by Miffymog

[Apech]

24 minutes ago, Miffymog said:

Yes.

 

However, as I've I learnt a few days ago with Dominic Grieve, sometimes politics takes steps forwards in the most subtle of ways.

 

The referendum result can never be over turned with out a second referendum.

 

Now, returning it back to the people again is ignoring their original vote, but doing so does mean everyone gets to have another say with a great deal of extra information they didn't have the first time round.

 

The thing is, of course, what would the options be if there was another one ...

 

Cameron presented the original referendum as binding and one-off (because he thought he would win) - so I think a second referendum would not be a valid way forward and even if Remain won it there would still be a huge backlash.  the can of worms has been opened and that's that.

 

The problem with hard Brexit is the unpredictability of the result.  It could be very limited and a huge success, or it might be 10 - 15 years of recession and hardship plus instability.  No one really knows.  If in doubt I prefer the cautious approach.  I think if I was an MP I'd go for May's deal on the basis that once we are 'technically' out and the water  seems fine we can always ditch parts of it, if and when it seems right (I realise this might be legally dubious but hey).  Also the instability in French suggests the EU might start changing soon - for instance if it devolved into a single market and not a political union then all well and good.

 

 

[Miffymog]

1 hour ago, Apech said:

 

Cameron presented the original referendum as binding and one-off (because he thought he would win) - so I think a second referendum would not be a valid way forward and even if Remain won it there would still be a huge backlash.  the can of worms has been opened and that's that.

 

The problem with hard Brexit is the unpredictability of the result.  It could be very limited and a huge success, or it might be 10 - 15 years of recession and hardship plus instability.  No one really knows.  If in doubt I prefer the cautious approach.  I think if I was an MP I'd go for May's deal on the basis that once we are 'technically' out and the water  seems fine we can always ditch parts of it, if and when it seems right (I realise this might be legally dubious but hey).  Also the instability in French suggests the EU might start changing soon - for instance if it devolved into a single market and not a political union then all well and good.

 

 

 

Double like.

 

That was always in my mind. Can't we try separating them a bit, and then see how it goes then. There were some rules and regulations where the ECJ were still going to have jurisdiction over the UK courts, especially when it comes to their own citizens, for an agreed 8 year period. But then after that, their influence would diminish.

 

Also, a more transitioned period with which to improve trading with other countries would be a great way to then move on further from the EU in time.

 

Our service industry will have to go through this anyway with May's deal as they're not covered by it.

 

And our goods that are traded with the EU will always have to abide by their regulations anyway, whether we are part of it or not...

 

Yes, it makes sense. However, my choice between Hard Brexit, May's deal, and remain is still to remain now - although things can change.

[Patrick Brown]

Sorry but out is out which ever way you cut it. The establishment is just playing mind games in an attempt to trick people into remaining. I don't see any problems with leaving but a ton with remaining. As for people being educated I think it's more a case of people being deprogrammed from the delusion that the EU promises a utopian society which of course is bollocks! 

 

Theresa May should be in prison as far as I'm concerned. 

[Jetsun]

You can't possibly get any more establishment than Jacob Reece-Mog. Boris, Gove, Farage are all firmly entrenched in the establishment, you can't possibly believe that Leave is led by anti establishment figures. 

 

Also I very much doubt there would be any trouble if we remained, London voted to stay as well as most big urban areas, it's all the small remote rural areas who voted leave, mostly old peoplle. What are they going to smash up apart from their local bus stop?

[Patrick Brown]

29 minutes ago, Jetsun said:

You can't possibly get any more establishment than Jacob Reece-Mog. Boris, Gove, Farage are all firmly entrenched in the establishment, you can't possibly believe that Leave is led by anti establishment figures. 

 

Well I wouldn't put any of those people in the same basket, and Farage isn't establishment he's just a buSINessman. Mog is just a honest chap and does what he honestly thinks is best for the country. Boris and Gove are just shill's and or idiots.  

 

29 minutes ago, Jetsun said:

Also I very much doubt there would be any trouble if we remained, London voted to stay as well as most big urban areas, it's all the small remote rural areas who voted leave, mostly old people. What are they going to smash up apart from their local bus stop?

 

London is the 'target'! People aren't going to set fire to their own towns or cities are they! Also London needs burning down as it's a cesspit. If we remain due to trickery and lies there will, undoubtedly, be trouble. To be honest politics in Britain is blatantly corrupt and it's more apparent than it's ever been. Nobody is being fooled except those that have been hypnotised and that probably happened at an early age. It was never education it was always indoctrination! Yes Blair was very clever and May has been pretty cunning but these people are marked and will never be forgotten as traitors.   

Edited December 7, 2018 by Patrick Brown

[Miffymog]

55 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said:

Sorry but out is out which ever way you cut it. The establishment is just playing mind games in an attempt to trick people into remaining. I don't see any problems with leaving but a ton with remaining. As for people being educated I think it's more a case of people being deprogrammed from the delusion that the EU promises a utopian society which of course is bollocks! 

 

Theresa May should be in prison as far as I'm concerned. 

 

This strong opinion you have which is shared by a lot of Labour voters is why Corbyn keeps resisting the idea of a second referendum. He knows if Labour vote for another one, they could possibly end up losing a lot of seats in the North by letting down a lot of his supporters. The conflict is that his Brexit secretary, Keir Starmer, is a strong remainer and thinks that Labour should represent remain.

 

Corbyn is possibly open to a Norway style deal, which maintains access to the single market and prevents a second referendum. However, there's a strong suspicion that neither the EU or EEA would want to allow this...

 

[rideforever]

Well .... what good will it do to stay in the EU ?
Better to grab our balls and jump, no ?
That's life isn't, cowards come last always.

The principle of being in charge of your own underpants is a solid principle to go by.

 

I am up for EEA, as long as we get to argue a lot with everyone, and get free trips to Norway.

 

A...nyway .... I am still of the opinion that all this border check rubbish is a total lie and it's all done on the mobile phone these days, and even if we go WTO then they can make a system that can be done one handed on your Samsung whilst having a wazz ... why not ?   Self-certification I call it.   What else ?   With the amount of goods people are buying this Xmas what do you expect you think HMRC is going to open every Kinder Egg to see what's inside ... I think not.   Those days are over.

 

Trade deals don't mean anything for good flow.

 

Anyway you know what I just think being part of the CA/US/NZ/AU and anyone else who doesn't hate us to much, like Singapore/ Malaysia/ Nigeria .... just join everyone frankly, except the EU.   In fact we can join European countries too just not the EU.    It'll work out better because they are more similar to our culture and way of beer life.

 

Then we can build that Hotol thing and Harry Potter can become the President of China, and the future is going to be different from the past.

 

Surely Brussels will run out of Champagne at some point ???

 

 

Edited December 7, 2018 by rideforever

[Miffymog]

The betting guys can be a fairly good prediction of what might happen as they're people prepared to put their money on the outcome. Currently, the odds/chances of a second referendum are running at about 40%.

[Chang]

We find ourselves in something of a hiatus at the moment and all of our musings in this thread are really nothing more than conjecture.

 

Things will pick up again after the so called meaningful vote on Tuesday but I for one expect only more nonsense and bullshit from the establishment.

 

For those of you who are interested in this "Meaningful" vote on Brexit this may be worth a shufti https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/parliament-meaningful-vote-brexit

[Patrick Brown]

Well TM and her disgusting buddies are throwing everything but the kitchen sink at this! The latest I heard is she's threatening that people who rely on medication need to encourage their MP's to accept the deal otherwise their medication will run out!!!!!!

 

These scum will stop at nothing to keep us in the EU so even more reason to really gear this all up and get onto the streets! The more they bullshit us the greater the chaos that will follow! These scum are playing with fire I shit you not! 

[Apech]

4 minutes ago, Chang said:

We find ourselves in something of a hiatus at the moment and all of our musings in this thread are really nothing more than conjecture.

 

Things will pick up again after the so called meaningful vote on Tuesday but I for one expect only more nonsense and bullshit from the establishment.

 

For those of you who are interested in this "Meaningful" vote on Brexit this may be worth a shufti https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/parliament-meaningful-vote-brexit

 

 

Meaningful would make a change.

[Apech]

3 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said:

Well TM and her disgusting buddies are throwing everything but the kitchen sink at this! The latest I heard is she's threatening that people who rely on medication need to encourage their MP's to accept the deal otherwise their medication will run out!!!!!!

 

These scum will stop at nothing to keep us in the EU so even more reason to really gear this all up and get onto the streets! The more they bullshit us the greater the chaos that will follow! These scum are playing with fire I shit you not! 

 

 

You used the word scum twice in one paragraph - which is unimaginative. so 5/10 for that post.

[Patrick Brown]

Just now, Apech said:

 

Meaningful would make a change.

 

Exactly as almost everything coming through the media is just propaganda bullshit, scaremongering and lies! I really do believe that a very large number of people 'hate' Theresa May! Yes a strong word but she has outed herself as an EU lackey scum sucker!!  

[Apech]

5 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said:

 

Exactly as almost everything coming through the media is just propaganda bullshit, scaremongering and lies! I really do believe that a very large number of people 'hate' Theresa May! Yes a strong word but she has outed herself as an EU lackey scum sucker!!  

 

I hope you didn't mean cum sucker.

 

[Patrick Brown]

3 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

I hope you didn't mean cum sucker.

 

 

I corrected my spelling just in time!! Well I'll never make the grade if I keep mixing my scum up with my...

[Patrick Brown]

Quote

Dover and other Channel ports face disruption for up to six months if the UK leaves the EU without a deal, ministers have said.

 

The "worst case scenario" warning comes after analysis of likely traffic flows, if customs checks are delayed.

Lorries carrying medicine could get priority at ports and planes used to fly in drugs, ministers said.

 

But Tory Brexiteer Andrew Bridgen said it was "Project Fear on steroids," ahead of Tuesday's big Brexit vote.

He told the BBC: "It's the last throw of the dice from the prime minister who is desperate to get MPs to vote for her withdrawal agreement."

 

The prime minister's claim that the alternative to the withdrawal agreement she has negotiated with the EU is a no-deal Brexit, has so far failed to convince many of her own MPs.

Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46480374

 

Err, bollocks!!

[Chang]

I think that I can safely say that I detest Theresa May as much as anyone but when all is said and done we have ended up (as a nation) with the Prime Drip that we deserve.

 

We do live in a democracy and the Conservatives are still (by the skin of their teeth) the elected Government. The herdlings have spoken and in the next election will speak again - which may yet result with Jezzer Corbyn taking the reins of state. We will really have something to start threads about then chaps.

 

I for one still hope to see Theresa May participating in Strictly Come Dancing, where I expect her to fare as well as a dancer as she has as a politico.

 

 

 

 

[Patrick Brown]

1 minute ago, Chang said:

I think that I can safely say that I detest Theresa May as much as anyone but when all is said and done we have ended up (as a nation) with the Prime Drip that we deserve.

 

We do live in a democracy and the Conservatives are still (by the skin of their teeth) the elected Government. The herdlings have spoken and in the next election will speak again - which may yet result with Jezzer Corbyn taking the reins of state. We will really have something to start threads about then chaps.

 

I for one still hope to see Theresa May participating in Strictly Come Dancing, where I expect her to fare as well as a dancer as she has as a politico.

 

I think democracy is broken in the UK as both sides, all sides/parties, seem to serve buSINess before the people. Sorry I got that wrong as these modern political types generally serve themselves right? Tossers!!

 

Could be a theme going on here!! 

[Patrick Brown]

Quote

Ukip resignations plunge party into further turmoil

Exodus of MEPs forces leader Gerard Batten to pull out of European party group

 

The resignation of three MEPs from Ukip over the appointment of the far-right campaigner Tommy Robinson as adviser has plunged the party into turmoil, forcing its leader to pull out of his European party group.

The leader, Gerard Batten, announced his resignation from the Europe of Freedom and Direct Democracy group (EFDD) after an exodus of senior figures from the party, including the EFDD president, Nigel Farage.

Batten said he could not remain in the EFDD while Farage launched “continual attacks on me and Ukip in the UK media”.

On Friday Ukip’s former leader Paul Nuttall announced he was quitting the party, as did David Coburn, its leader in Scotland, and Nathan Gill, a Welsh MEP. Later, the London assembly member Peter Whittle, Ukip’s 2016 candidate for London mayor, also resigned.

Guardian Today: the headlines, the analysis, the debate - sent direct to you
 Read more
Several other leading Ukip figures have also quit in recent weeks over the party’s lurch to the far right. They include the former leadership candidate Suzanne Evans and the MEP Patrick O’Flynn.

Nuttall, who led the party during the 2017 election, said Batten’s appointment of Robinson was a catastrophic error that would tarnish Brexit.

Farage quit the party on Tuesday, saying it had a fixation with Batten’s anti-Muslim policies.

The latest resignations mean more than half of Ukip’s 24 MEPs elected in 2014 no longer represent the party.

Nuttall, the MEP for North West England, said: “I am resigning because the party is being taken in a direction which I believe is harmful to Brexit. The association with Tommy Robinson will simply appal many moderate Brexit voters.”

In a resignation letter to the party, Coburn said he did “not run on an anti-Islam platform”. He added: “Unfortunately, this seems to be the direction that Ukip is taking, obsessing about this issue to the exclusion of all else at a time when we might lose the Brexit we fought so hard for.”

In his resignation letter, Gill said: “I can no longer belong to a party that switched its primary focus from Brexit to a foolish pursuit against Islam and promotion of Tommy Robinson.”

Nuttall made a similar point in his statement. He said: “The Tommy Robinson issue should have been shelved and debated within the party following Brexit – in line with the sensible decision taken by the national executive committee last month. The party leadership and my MEP colleagues have been aware of my views on this issue for some time.

“Putting Tommy Robinson front and centre, whilst Brexit is in the process of being betrayed, is in my view a catastrophic error. To conflate Brexit and Robinson at this crucial moment is to put the Eurosceptic cause in danger and I cannot and will not be party to that.”

Nuttall said he had made the decision to resign with an “immense amount of reluctance and regret, as I have worked tirelessly for the party for the past 14 years”.

When Nuttall was leader he stood by Batten when he described Islam as a “death cult”. Batten, who has also called for Muslim-only prisons, survived an attempt by Farage to unseat him last weekend.

While members made clear they did not want to allow Robinson, the founder of the far-right English Defence League, to join Ukip – he is in any case barred under current rules – a vote of no confidence in Batten was defeated.

 

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/07/ukip-nuttall-resigns-tommy-robinson

 

Well many of us said UKIP was dead when Farage left and it's seems to be true. It really is now dead as the proverbial parrot! Not that it matter's as it did it's job. Hopefully in round two another party will emerge this time a lot more professional. 

[Chang]

1 hour ago, Patrick Brown said:

 

Well many of us said UKIP was dead when Farage left and it's seems to be true. It really is now dead as the proverbial parrot! Not that it matter's as it did it's job. Hopefully in round two another party will emerge this time a lot more professional. 

 

I can see your point but unfortunately the job is not in fact done as we are still members of the European Tyranny and may yet remain so.

[Patrick Brown]

Yes but we got the vote and won the vote. The conniving of the government was always going to happen and people llike Farage and Mog, amongst many others, are pointing out the bullshit.

 

UKIP was always a ramshackle outfit but it did the job mainly because of Farage. If the current shit the government are dishing out isn't shot down then Farage and chums may have to forge a new party. 

 

It's all a bit of a soap opera but it's also very important for the future of the UK so something worth fighting for!