Miffymog Posted December 10, 2018 12 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said: Oh my! Get the sad sack out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes so she's figured out that when this 'dodgy deal' is voted down it will be the beginning of the chaos and violence! The most despised PM ever, fact! Damn - I thought she'd just go through with it just to get to the 'other side'. But this does kind of confirm Chang's opinion that she's a bit of a drip. I try to see the best in people and liked to think that May did all that could be done with the negotiations, rather than her going at them in a weak manner. But stepping back now comes across as cowardice. Unless she can really make some changes that can make a difference, this move is showing her lose her nerve. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patrick Brown Posted December 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, Miffymog said: But stepping back now comes across as cowardice. Unless she can really make some changes that can make a difference, this move is showing her lose her nerve. Exactly This stress is killing me! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miffymog Posted December 10, 2018 ME TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My general good equanimity just goes out the window in the face of all this. The EU wont change the legal aspect of the deal. She should have had the vote and then dealt with the out come. Both parties and starting to get the knives out now... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patrick Brown Posted December 10, 2018 18 minutes ago, Miffymog said: ME TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My general good equanimity just goes out the window in the face of all this. The EU wont change the legal aspect of the deal. She should have had the vote and then dealt with the out come. Both parties and starting to get the knives out now... Well us cynics have concluded that the plan was to always remain! All that's going on at the moments is a big push to convince as many people as possible that's we're better off staying in. The 'establishment' will do whatever it takes to keep us in but they're concerned about the inevitable backlash so they're simply recruiting for the battle ahead! No one expects these arrogant lowlifes to give away something that took hundreds of years to create do they? I'm not even talking conspiracies but rather very wealthy 'clever' people that think they know best and that includes the royal family! Yeah I can't stick them either! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miffymog Posted December 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Patrick Brown said: Well us cynics have concluded that the plan was to always remain! All that's going on at the moments is a big push to convince as many people as possible that's we're better off staying in. The 'establishment' will do whatever it takes to keep us in but they're concerned about the inevitable backlash so they're simply recruiting for the battle ahead! No one expects these arrogant lowlifes to give away something that took hundreds of years to create do they? I'm not even talking conspiracies but rather very wealthy 'clever' people that think they know best and that includes the royal family! Yeah I can't stick them either! Well, I voted leave and I am now a remainer. If May had have approached the negotiations in a different way, would I still be leave? I don't know. But some of the comments coming out at the moment are quite interesting, namely, which ever way this goes, there will be discussions about it for years, as the nation is returning to the days of the Civil war and is becoming well and truly divided. If the referendum is overturned, even if it's due to a second one, voters will leave both parties and could well migrate towards a new, single issue party. But, when people are drawn around just one issue, there tends to be too much disagreement on all the other issues a political party has to deal with. A Pandora's box has been opened, and there's no easy way to shut it. Again Chang may well be right - the only way on is to sit back and enjoy the laughs ... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patrick Brown Posted December 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, Miffymog said: Again Chang may well be right - the only way on is to sit back and enjoy the laughs ... Yep! Everybody is going to loose even the establishment and it's all Theresa May's fault for being spineless, incompetent and a lackey of the system. On the bright side if our economy falls apart then at least migration will drop and we might get some peace! Alas I really do believe this division between the people and governments/buSINess is global and will continue to grow with disastrous consequences. If we watch what's going on in France, Greece and many other modern countries we see decent people being pushed further and further into poverty. So if you're not there now you will be in the future unless you're a banker!! I'm lucky as I'm poor, and stupid! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miffymog Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said: Yep! Everybody is going to loose even the establishment and it's all Theresa May's fault for being spineless, incompetent and a lackey of the system. On the bright side if our economy falls apart then at least migration will drop and we might get some peace! Alas I really do believe this division between the people and governments/buSINess is global and will continue to grow with disastrous consequences. If we watch what's going on in France, Greece and many other modern countries we see decent people being pushed further and further into poverty. So if you're not there now you will be in the future unless you're a banker!! I'm lucky as I'm poor, and stupid! Well, Macron is making his grovelling address to the nation tonight, it may well be worth watching on that French News channel you put links up to earlier. Just to get it off my chest, there was one time when Macron did wind me up a little bit. There was a time I think earlier on in the year when I think a French police man died stopping a machete wielding maniac. He was held up as a hero and almost a state funeral was held for him. For the first 15 minutes of the funeral, the coffin was laid out in a court yard with with a guard of honor along the side of the courtyard, but with the short man stood, by himself, just looking deep and meaningful at the coffin. He insisted on staying there by himself looking full of his own self importance for what seemed ages. It became all about Macron showing off his respect for the police man, rather than the police man himself. Any way, I have to admit I know little about his policies, but there is a skill to being a major politician with out pissing off too many of the people. And, unfortunately, he has failed in that regard. Edited December 10, 2018 by Miffymog 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted December 10, 2018 3 hours ago, Patrick Brown said: Oh my! Get the sad sack out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes so she's figured out that when this 'dodgy deal' is voted down it will be the beginning of the chaos and violence! The most despised PM ever, fact! She's going to try to get the EU to agree a time limit on the backstop I would think. If she is successful then she has a slightly better chance of getting the vote through. It's not completely unreasonable. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patrick Brown Posted December 10, 2018 This women, TM, is a lackey as she says "there is no intention or using the back stop" yet can also confirm the "legal and binding nature of the agreement"! So any 'intention' is irreverent because it's legally binding and the EU can choose to keep us in the EU indefinitely if they want. I for one don't trust the EU one inch or should I say one centre metre?! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patrick Brown Posted December 10, 2018 Read you post after mine and yes I agree if there is a time limit it may go through. Of course we don't want the EU to have the ability to keep us in indefinitely, that's the problem. All depends of the legalise I suppose? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted December 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said: This women, TM, is a lackey as she says "there is no intention or using the back stop" yet can also confirm the "legal and binding nature of the agreement"! So any 'intention' is irreverent because it's legally binding and the EU can choose to keep us in the EU indefinitely if they want. I for one don't trust the EU one inch or should I say one centre metre?! What is a centre metre - do you mean centimetre? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patrick Brown Posted December 10, 2018 Just now, Apech said: What is a centre metre - do you mean centimetre? Yes, I did say above I'm thick! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted December 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Patrick Brown said: Read you post after mine and yes I agree if there is a time limit it may go through. Of course we don't want the EU to have the ability to keep us in indefinitely, that's the problem. All depends of the legalise I suppose? She knows if it gets voted on she'll loose. So to delay and get some kind of weasel words into the political agreement is (from her point of view) sensible. Remember she replace 'f*** you Cameron I'm out of here' so at least you have to grant her tenacity. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patrick Brown Posted December 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Apech said: She knows if it gets voted on she'll loose. So to delay and get some kind of weasel words into the political agreement is (from her point of view) sensible. Remember she replace 'f*** you Cameron I'm out of here' so at least you have to grant her tenacity. Well you say tenacity I would say stupidity. She's probably been promised a very well paid job at the EU! But I can see many EU buildings going up in flames in the near future and hopefully she'll be inside one of them!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted December 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said: Well you say tenacity I would say stupidity. She's probably been promised a very well paid job at the EU! But I can see many EU buildings going up in flames in the near future and hopefully she'll be inside one of them!! You sound slightly angry my friend. Take a bath of Reiki herbal salts 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patrick Brown Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Apech said: You sound slightly angry my friend. Take a bath of Reiki herbal salts Well if you was watching TM giving it large, BS wise, then you'll appreciate that I'm not alone. At least they can head for the bar as for me I gave up a few years back so i'll have to settle for a bath and chamomile tea! Edited December 10, 2018 by Patrick Brown 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miffymog Posted December 10, 2018 There's talk the vote could be delayed until January. It seems her method is just to create more tension by leaving it later and later, in the hope some rebels will back down. The thing is, there probably isn't quite enough negative momentum to take her down until she's actually come back from the EU with her new amendments, whatever they may be. DAMN. She's now just trying to cling on for her own sake .. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patrick Brown Posted December 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, Miffymog said: There's talk the vote could be delayed until January. It seems her method is just to create more tension by leaving it later and later, in the hope some rebels will back down. The thing is, there probably isn't quite enough negative momentum to take her down until she's actually come back from the EU with her new amendments, whatever they may be. DAMN. She's now just trying to cling on for her own sake .. Listening to a few MP's and I think she's trying to force a second referendum! Yes I know she stands up and says there will not be a second referendum but if the consensus is that it's the only way forward then that's what will probably happen. I think that's what she's doing and of course it will take the heat of her. She's just trying to wear people down enough so they accept a second referendum. Bitch! I'm sticking to Brexit means Exit and I think a lot of other people are. As these tactics are akin to brain washing i.e. If you keep telling people something they'll eventually begin to believe it. 1. It's the best deal she can get, apparently, even though Raab has gone on record as trying to talk her out of the whole backstop BS. 2. She's 'threatened' a no deal exit while at the same time proclaiming how bad it would be but never suggesting that it might be fine and fairly easy to implement (remember she refused Canad +). 3. She keeps telling people they can't have a second referendum which is a mind job as people often want what they can't have. 4. No deal isn't an option and we note she doesn't mention this much but that's her grand plan as she's softening people up to accept it as the best option. Step back and anybody can see what's going on. Put simply she doesn't want us leaving the EU. Therefore she's a traitor of the people of the United Kingdom and should be put on trial for treason! Seriously!!!!! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patrick Brown Posted December 10, 2018 Be interesting to see what Farage makes of it all (Starts at 6:00): Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chang Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) To pretend that Theresa May has any sort of plan is ridiculous. She is simply a rubber ball bouncing from pillar to post. I still think that most of you are missing the big picture however. The Tories under Prime Drip May are showing themselves again and again as unfit to govern. I now have real fears that they will not complete their term of office and will be forced to go to the country. Corbyn has the youth vote without any question (its a sort of Obi Wan Corbyn thing) and the chances are high that the Marxists (Labour Party) would carry the election. We would then be left drowning in the mess of Brexit - whichever way it goes - and have the added chaos of a Marxist regime, promising the world and delivering ruin. Things are looking very grim indeed chaps but there will still be a few laughs along the way. As an aside I am beginning to seriously worry about Apech, whom I never thought of as anything other than a Boring Buddhist and left wing Liberal. I may have to amend my views after reading recent posts. Edited December 10, 2018 by Chang 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patrick Brown Posted December 10, 2018 Of course the 48 letters could be reached! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chang Posted December 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said: Of course the 48 letters could be reached! That is possible but what then? We can paint all manner of scenarios but just now it is extremely difficult to think of one that does not continue the chaos and play into Corbyns hands. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patrick Brown Posted December 10, 2018 Well I still think May has a 'plan' and she might have even factored Corbyn in, as said she's wants to keep us in the EU by trying to mind-job MP's but mainly the public. We voted to leave and now more and more people are accepting that we probably won't or can't!!! She's a traitor. Forget politics and parties she's a liar and a EU shill. She's going to hell!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Miffymog Posted December 10, 2018 16 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said: Well I still think May has a 'plan' and she might have even factored Corbyn in, as said she's wants to keep us in the EU by trying to mind-job MP's but mainly the public. We voted to leave and now more and more people are accepting that we probably won't or can't!!! She's a traitor. Forget politics and parties she's a liar and a EU shill. She's going to hell!! I do agree - it does feel to me as though she's slowly taking us back in. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patrick Brown Posted December 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Miffymog said: I do agree - it does feel to me as though she's slowly taking us back in. As said she's probably got a job lined up working for the EU. Didn't Blair end up working for the EU? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
