What is the Taoist religion?

[Spotless]

5 hours ago, wandelaar said:

 

No. I have decided not to delve into Taoist religion. I made several  attempts lately to appreciate Taoist religion, but I found out that I simply can't. Not my cup of thee!

Not my cup of tea either - never thought of it as a religion or belief system.

But then again I did not ever see Buddhism as a religion until attending a temple where our son could go to a class there.

It was and is a real eye opener - very dogmatic - very past- time.

Edited December 30, 2018 by Spotless

[wandelaar]

9 minutes ago, Spotless said:

Not my cup of tea either - never thought of it as a religion or belief system.

But then again I did not ever see Buddhism as a religion until attending a temple where our son could go to a class there.

It was and is a real eye opener - very dogmatic - very past- time.

 

It seems to happen to all spiritual philosophies and world views, as soon as they become mainstream they will lose their vigour and harden into empty forms and rituals. At that point people will even start to join them for social or political reasons. That's why I'm mainly interested in what the founders had to say.

[wandelaar]

The same thing is said here:  http://www.wussu.com/laotzu/laotzu38.html

[OldDog]

11 hours ago, wandelaar said:

... seems to happen to all spiritual philosophies ...

 

Sadly, this is true. When one participates in practices simply for the sake of the practice, it becomes hollow, devoid of meaning. I have always seen organized religion as a social structure. Which is not necessarily a bad thing. Most people need a standard to live by, as a basis of social interaction. Where it becomes pernicious is when it becomes exclusive and then intolerant of other points of view. The only way for the individual to avoid this ... and remain within the social structure ... is through humility and tolerance. 

 

One of the things that attracted me to Daoism is the understanding of how the sage conducts his life and deals with social interaction. Many of the chapters of DDJ allude to this. It describes a path of personal conduct that an individual can subscribe to without becoming presciptive and ritualistic. Its about how you behave, not what you do. It imposes on no one, yet, has the ability to abide with all.

 

 

[Rara]

On 29/12/2018 at 4:49 PM, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

Master Gu is not going to teach anyone Taoism.

 

He doesn't even understand the TaiJiTu.

 

"So these two dots,, represents, uh,,, eyes"

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

Are you referring to a specific video and do you have a correction to make? If so, please share.

[vonkrankenhaus]

1 minute ago, Rara said:

Are you referring to a specific video

 

 

 

I have posted many words of explanation of YinYang and the TaiJiTu here in various discussions.

 

I like his costume and props though.

 

Otherwise, what would anyone be recognizing?

 

His audience will likely not be equip to discern what he is saying anyway.

 

And I am not saying "bad" - just saying "incorrect".

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Rara]

1 hour ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

 

 

I have posted many words of explanation of YinYang and the TaiJiTu here in various discussions.

 

I like his costume and props though.

 

Otherwise, what would anyone be recognizing?

 

His audience will likely not be equip to discern what he is saying anyway.

 

And I am not saying "bad" - just saying "incorrect".

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

If there's a thread you'd like to guide me to to compare, I'd be more than willing to have a read through. Thank you for your time

[vonkrankenhaus]

13 hours ago, Rara said:

If there's a thread you'd like to guide me to to compare

 

Most that I am in under any related topic.

 

Not sure which ones are best, but should be searchable in this forum.

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Maddie]

So to revive this thread what I wonder is is doing Qigong and reading the Tao te Ching what Taoism is as thought in the West. Because I've noticed in Asia they have a very different view of what Taoism is.

Edited December 22, 2020 by dmattwads

[Rara]

16 hours ago, dmattwads said:

So to revive this thread what I wonder is is doing Qigong and reading the Tao te Ching what Taoism is as thought in the West. Because I've noticed in Asia they have a very different view of what Taoism is.

 

I'm curious to know what you noticed....

 

So basically, you can be Daoist without Qigong, meditation etc.  but they are heavily advised for good health. It goes without saying that you attain more with regular (and regulated) practice. My teacher always talked about Kung Fu being very good for you and if you replaced it with drinking alcohol all the time, your life health would be pretty shit.

 

I think most religions would say the same (minus the Kung Fu bit, but would still advise living the beat possible life in accordance to your heart)

 

The fundamental principles do lie in the DDJ, yes. You can't exactly practice Daoist religion without that as a foundation.

[Maddie]

1 minute ago, Rara said:

 

I'm curious to know what you noticed....

 

 

So basically what I noticed is in the West generally seems to mean doing Qigong, reading the DDJ, and things like this.

 

In Asia its more about going to a temple and doing rituals that involve gods and chanting.

 

Again I realize this is general and there are exceptions, but on a broad scale this has been my observation.

[Sketch]

Have you considered Feng Shui in your survey? Consecrated space has manifestations beyond that public place labeled "temple".

 

 

[Maddie]

1 minute ago, Sketch said:

Have you considered Feng Shui in your survey? Consecrated space has manifestations beyond that public place labeled "temple".

 

 

 

I don't think Feng Shui is strictly Taoist, I think its just more of a Chinese thing.

[Sketch]

Much of my reading suggests otherwise. Although "strictly Taoist " is the loaded phrase here.

 

I'd recommend Kristopher Schipper's "Daoist Body" or Livia Kohn's "Pristine Affluence: Daoist Roots in the Stone Age", et al, for background. The different kinds of Daoism you can see are the tip of the iceberg. 

 

It has to do with making empire wide changes mesh with village life over long periods of time, it has to do with who had the right and knowledge to officiate at what ceremony, where to dig the canal, all sorts of things.  

 

I'm certain many Feng  Shui consultants,  including the non Chinese,  would have an idea that they were being "Daoist" on some level.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Sketch

[Sketch]

Sure looks Taoistey to me.

It does indicate a different direction to consider; the individual as a component of their environment. An importance to air, light and water, to  direction and angle. 

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Sketch

[Maddie]

28 minutes ago, Sketch said:

Sure looks Taoistey to me.

It does indicate a different direction to consider; the individual as a component of their environment. An importance to air, light and water, to  direction and angle. 

 

 

 

 

I don't know enough about that to say one way or the other. I do think how ever that a lot things considered "Taoist" are actually just Chinese like yin and yang, there was a whole school of yin and yang that was not Taoist. I-Ching pre-dates Taoism as well. Same with five elements.

 

 

[Sketch]

 

10 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

I don't know enough about that to say one way or the other. I do think how ever that a lot things considered "Taoist" are actually just Chinese like yin and yang, there was a whole school of yin and yang that was not Taoist. I-Ching pre-dates Taoism as well. Same with five elements.

 

 

Considered by people with less understanding of what is "strictly Taoist ".

 

Than yours at this time. 

 

Including scholars and practitioners. 

 

 

[Maddie]

Just now, Sketch said:

 

Considered by people with less understanding of what is "strictly Taoist ".

 

Than yours at this time. 

 

Including scholars and practitioners. 

 

 

 

I suppose that is a good topic to consider.

 

[Rara]

2 hours ago, dmattwads said:

 

So basically what I noticed is in the West generally seems to mean doing Qigong, reading the DDJ, and things like this.

 

In Asia its more about going to a temple and doing rituals that involve gods and chanting.

 

Again I realize this is general and there are exceptions, but on a broad scale this has been my observation.

 

Yes, although not many temples here and chanting to gods that don't really mean anything here would be a bit weird.

 

But in Asia, anyone will say that we don't need anything more than the DDJ and respect for Laozi.

[Rara]

21 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

I don't know enough about that to say one way or the other. I do think how ever that a lot things considered "Taoist" are actually just Chinese like yin and yang, there was a whole school of yin and yang that was not Taoist. I-Ching pre-dates Taoism as well. Same with five elements.

 

 

 

Ah. But "Daoist" is a later construct of ideas that already floated around. Bear in mind this philosophy (i.e Yin and Yang) is still "Daoist" in principle because of the symbol's meaning, even if it derived from something else.

 

Being one with Dao pre-dates "Daoism".

[Maddie]

1 minute ago, Rara said:

 

Ah. But "Daoist" is a later construct of ideas that already floated around. Bear in mind this philosophy (i.e Yin and Yang) is still "Daoist" in principle because of the symbol's meaning, even if it derived from something else.

 

Being one with Dao pre-dates "Daoism".

 

Yes good point. Lao Tzu didn't invent the Tao, he just was one of the first the describe it.

 

[Sketch]

In relation to eastern religion the idea that the individual has to guess right on a philosophical proposition that can include anything from crossed legs, bells, masks, monkeys and incense or be wrong forever - can be less of a thing.

 

 The gods are often at the local level, associated with festivals and plants. 

 

Village festivals often involved making the gods behave - sometimes by making them into good Buddhists. The officiate at these festivals is a type of Taoist. Specifically, ordained to a type of Taoist order, and trained in special techniques that include all the "Qigong" you could want.

 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Sketch