Taoism: What's the goal?

[Maddie]

After my last question I thought I would ask another question that is both more specific and more broad, and that is what is the goal in Taoism. What I mean by that is in Christianity and Islam the end goal is heaven, in Buddhism and Hinduism the end goal is enlightenment. So what exactly is it in Taoism and or what is the point? What does the practice lean lead one towards?

[Kar3n]

Taoism really doesn't have an end goal in my opinion. Some might say immortality is an end goal but is immortality really an ending?

 

I think of Taoism kind of like the Gospel's teachings by Jesus in the sense the are instructions for living life. Taoism is focused on living a life in balance with nature (all things), as can be seen in the yin yang. I like the word harmony rather than balance because balance suggests adding or taking away something to achieve it. Taoism is all encompassing, organic spontaneity enacted selflessly.

 

I suspect others will have different views and thoughts on the subject, but this is how I see it.

[OldDog]

3 hours ago, Kar3n said:

... suspect others will have different views ...

 

Not much. I encountered the DDJ in my early 20s. Lets just say I have continued with it for a life time.

 

As a young person I was frustrated with religion. So much of what I observed was at odds with what my Christian upbringing had taught. Seemed like every one was telling me what to think/believe without provideing much in the way of answers. I came to look upon religion as a social phenomena. People are drawn to religion for social reasons ... which is not a bad thing for most because people in general need moral guidance. The basic teachings of Jesus provide that ... all the rest ... dogma, ritual ... is mans invention.

 

What I found in the DDJ is answers to a lot of the questions I had that make sense ... providing consistency and continuity. As for goals, I am satisfied with having a way to live the life I am given in a simple manner and in harmony (I prefer that word, as well) with time and nature, using the three treausres ... compassion, frugality and not being first ... as my standard.  That can be considered a morality of a kind.

 

My goals are not in salvation, heaven or even enlightnment. These, in common thinking, are goals that place one in a superior position or position of advantage relative to others. Hence, something to be desired ... competed for. They seem false in that regard. 

 

Rather, I take comfort in the unity of being, knowing that life has a beginning and an end. Regardless of whether my form continues to persist or not, it does so in the unity of existence. That can be considered an enlightenment of a kind.

 

Just one man's opinion.

[Stosh]

5 hours ago, dmattwads said:

After my last question I thought I would ask another question that is both more specific and more broad, and that is what is the goal in Taoism. What I mean by that is in Christianity and Islam the end goal is heaven, in Buddhism and Hinduism the end goal is enlightenment. So what exactly is it in Taoism and or what is the point? What does the practice lean lead one towards?

The 'End goal' is a rewarding life , as one defines it for them-self , where one can realize their own virtue,

interact effectively with others , and fit in the natural world.

A personal peace or harmony , for the duration,  while we live. 

[rideforever]

Hinduism is all about going up into the head and awakening Head (dimension of consciousness).

Christianity is of course all about awakening the Heart (dimension of the divine)

Taoism is all about awakening the Dantien (dimension of energy).

 

What is the relationship between Consciousness / Divine / Energy : well they are all part of the soul which is the Real Self and is the product of the spiritual path.

Whatever you work with there is always some element of Consciousness as  it is required for "recognition" of anything, so if you feel your heart then consciousness is also activated indirectly.

 

Any awakening can shatter the false self and lead you into the Light : in other words the soul can be activated through any activated centre.

 

Indian / Chinese / Japanese / western / middle eastern cultures ..... have different characters based on their geography and history, which suit particular centres of the soul.

 

Taoism : the dantien must be awakened, embodied and surrendered downwards into the abyss below.   

One of the degeneracies of Taoism is to create big energy centres on top of natural centre of the dantien and in other parts of the body, to get super mega energy .... which is quite different to the intention to awaken the truth within and surrender to reality and live WuWei.

 

 

[Marblehead]

Goal?  To live and die a natural death.

 

[Gerard]

Bringing the Yin & Yang to a pre-Heaven balance. Spend many, many years to attain that. You'll see what happens when you do.

 

Goal? This is when problems arise.

 

No goal it's better. Go with the flow.

 

 

[zerostao]

Attainments are just a by product of following the Way.

They are not ends to themselves.

Enjoy the Journey. Carefree & Natural.

[liminal_luke]

To release oneself from the notion that there could possibly be such a thing as an end goal, some sublime state that should be striven for in the usual self-improvement obsessed, achievement-overvaluing, western manner. 

 

(Or maybe not. )

Edited November 15, 2018 by liminal_luke

[dawei]

11 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

To release oneself from the notion that there could possibly be such a thing as an end goal, some sublime state that should be striven for in the usual self-improvement obsessed, achievement-overvaluing, western manner. 

 

(Or maybe not. )

 

To release oneself seems to imply one has realized they have a wrong understanding or path.. not sure here.

 

No Goal:   Simply reside ... but the mind will think more. 

[Nintendao]

2 hours ago, dawei said:

Simply reside

 

...the dude abides..

.

Spoiler

 

 

[Gerard]

More things to focus upon and not siddhis, ungrounded yabba yabba for which spiritual practice is so notorious for and the need to argue:

 

1. Morality, morality, morality. Can't stress this well enough.

 

2. Being a good person.

 

3. Overcoming the ego. One of the most challenging tasks.

 

4. Overcoming sensual desire. A level above number 3. Very, very, very difficult task.

 

5. Wisdom. It comes with 'soul' age.

 

Are these goals? Maybe but I see them as a by-product of correct practice.

 

And people create religions. Taoism is more science really. Focus on this science in order to work on points 1 to 5.

 

Happy practice!

[Maddie]

6 hours ago, Gerard said:

More things to focus upon and not siddhis, ungrounded yabba yabba for which spiritual practice is so notorious for and the need to argue:

 

1. Morality, morality, morality. Can't stress this well enough.

 

2. Being a good person.

 

3. Overcoming the ego. One of the most challenging tasks.

 

4. Overcoming sensual desire. A level above number 3. Very, very, very difficult task.

 

5. Wisdom. It comes with 'soul' age.

 

Are these goals? Maybe but I see them as a by-product of correct practice.

 

And people create religions. Taoism is more science really. Focus on this science in order to work on points 1 to 5.

 

Happy practice!

 

Sounds like good stuff, but how does that differ from Buddhism? or basically any other religion?

[KuroShiro]

On 11/16/2018 at 9:25 AM, Gerard said:

More things to focus upon and not siddhis, ungrounded yabba yabba for which spiritual practice is so notorious for and the need to argue:

 

1. Morality, morality, morality. Can't stress this well enough.

 

2. Being a good person.

 

3. Overcoming the ego. One of the most challenging tasks.

 

4. Overcoming sensual desire. A level above number 3. Very, very, very difficult task.

 

5. Wisdom. It comes with 'soul' age.

 

Are these goals? Maybe but I see them as a by-product of correct practice.

 

And people create religions. Taoism is more science really. Focus on this science in order to work on points 1 to 5.

 

Happy practice!

 

Thank you.

Could you please elaborate why you put number 4 a level above number 3?

[Gerard]

On 17/11/2018 at 2:00 AM, dmattwads said:

 

Sounds like good stuff, but how does that differ from Buddhism? or basically any other religion?

 

 

The higher you go, the less things look like a religion and more like UNIVERSAL PRINCIPLES.

 

Taoism differs from other paths as it  contains the Universal Law of Yin & Yang.

 

Do you believe me? Religion

Why don't you find out for yourself? No religion, practice, I start to understand and see how things really work deep down (I'm manipulating my body-mind in order to open up) and then I know that I must go with the flow. Again, find out by your OWN EFFORT because no one will ever do it for you.

[Maddie]

2 hours ago, Gerard said:

 

 

Taoism differs from other paths as it  contains the Universal Law of Yin & Yang.

 

Is yin and yang exclusively Taoist per se? Or from Chinese thought in general and Taoism simply makes extensive use of it? 

[Zen Pig]

my goal is to have no goal. Haaaaa! 

Edited November 18, 2018 by Zen Pig

[Gerard]

19 hours ago, dmattwads said:

 

Is yin and yang exclusively Taoist per se? Or from Chinese thought in general and Taoism simply makes extensive use of it? 

 

Yes, only in the traditional Chinese system. In the West the fear of God kept humanity in the dark for milennia. Same as in India with their gods. That fear continues even today. On the other hand we have materialistic Science, another god.

 

 

 

[Nuralshamal]

On 15.11.2018 at 1:30 PM, Maddie said:

After my last question I thought I would ask another question that is both more specific and more broad, and that is what is the goal in Taoism. What I mean by that is in Christianity and Islam the end goal is heaven, in Buddhism and Hinduism the end goal is enlightenment. So what exactly is it in Taoism and or what is the point? What does the practice lean lead one towards?

According to Master Zhongxian Wu, the goal is "tien ren he yi" (man becomes one with the universe).

So it's similar to yoga, also meaning "union" or "being in harmony with".

Similarly, in sufism , it's termed "fana fi Allah" or dissolving into God. 

I'm tempted to say in Christianity the true goal is imitation of Christ, who proclaimed "I and the Father are one".

God, the Father, the Universe, the ALL, it's the same, one living being, just called different names.

This experiential state of Oneness with everything and everyone, accompanied by a life lived in accord with this inner feeling through being in harmony with everything and everyone (yourself, partner, family, extended family, community, country, planet, universe is a step by step approach to achieving this).

I would say this is the universal goal of all spiritual traditions.