Is Fascism Left or Right

[Pilgrim]

 

1 hour ago, ralis said:

 

Why not compare and contrast the actual factual history of the time. To cherry pick to suit your own narrative leads nowhere, but down the road of fallacious arguments.

Sure will when I have more time until then lets hear what you were told by the people you know I am interested in what they experienced. 

 

You can do the forum argument dance all you want I don't mind I am not here to argue.

 

I also do not have a narrative so there is nothing meant to lead anywhere or convince anyone (which is impossible) I am entertaining myself and sharing what I have learned from those I have known as well as pointing certain things out that are true. agreement is not sought or expected. If it happens good, if not that is good too.

[liminal_luke]

..

Edited November 15, 2018 by liminal_luke

[Aetherous]

6 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

Some future historian of Daobums will say that side X or Y helped usher in world destruction. 

 

LOL

 

Quote

A third possibility.  None of us are stupid.  None of us are willfully ignorant ideologues.  We all want the best for our country and the larger planet. 

 

Each of us are stupid sometimes, but I think this third possibility is really the truth.

 

Edit: Luke, should I delete this response? You deleted your post.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Aetherous

[Stosh]

12 minutes ago, ralis said:

 

Really? Tell that to the millions that were slaughtered during the war!

Meaningless argument , beneath you , tsk tsk

[ralis]

3 hours ago, Pilgrim said:

Oh yes it does,  I would love to here what these people have to share please do tell us.

 

https://www.amazon.com/They-Thought-Were-Free-Germans/dp/B071L6WGLG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1542316676&sr=8-2&keywords=they+thought+they+were+free

[Pilgrim]

 

30 minutes ago, ralis said:

 

https://www.amazon.com/They-Thought-Were-Free-Germans/dp/B071L6WGLG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1542316676&sr=8-2&keywords=they+thought+they+were+free

Thanks for the link I listened to a sample and it sounds like it off to a good start.

[ralis]

@Pilgrim,

 

Hannah Arendt was a well respected political theorist.

 

 

 

[Pilgrim]

Ralis I want to thank you for engaging in this conversation.

 

I will look at what you have shared because this issue of Nazi's and Fascism comes up with you allot in your posts.

 

I will do my best never to discount what you are sharing because I know this topic is something you are,     how may I say this and not be a jerk? This topic matters to you. So I will honor it and humor myself less.

 

Part of my Family is Jewish. I am not. This thing means a lot to me because the Jewish People were always very kind to me, they were loving and real, so very real compared to the rest of the world I knew as a child. I would not like what happened then to happen now and Trump and all the rest be damned to a Hell we can hardly imagine before we Americans tread that vile road.

 

My loving old survivors showed me there tattoos, and I cringed in horror. They told me how it was never knowing if today was the day you would die, how they survived on crumbs of hard moldy bread, how they suffered and how ultimately they so loved America. They would scold me harshly if I ever even came close to saying anything they considered negative about America in our conversations.

 

Every time I complained about school or life being unfair they had a lesson ready for me. I loved them for it. God knows sometimes it scared me allot to hear what they would say.  I could never imagine being so old and wise,  they were like old trees deep in the forest. I had a very hard time coming up,  compared to them my times were a cake walk.  They inspired me because I knew if they could make it I could too because I had it much,  much better.

 

The stories were important the heart and the haunted faces made it real,   like I was the one waiting to die. What I want to say more than anything else is we Americans must not repeat the mistakes of the past to lead to a fascist system and a dictatorship ever.

 

I know, I know I picked on the Democrats and the Liberals. I found easy sources to damn them. This was on purpose you know.

 

Why?

 

Because I see a dangerous pattern.  I see senators that represent the Democratic party advocating Doxing. One Maxine Waters to be exact. I see the same party saying now it is pay back time.

 

Honestly this scares me worse than anything.

 

It really does.

 

The job of senators is not to fight with a rival political party or  jockey for power and position.  There job is one of the three branches of Government,  on both sides the job is not being done and now the courts are being elevated because these pardon my French...  Fuctards will not get off their self serving scum bag asses and do their job. 

 

This is a real danger.  When chaos gets to be too strong people start wanting order and they will throughout history seek a strong charismatic figure who will appeal to base human tribal instincts.

 

Obama scared the shit out of me. He fulfilled all the marks of the Anti Christ he was handsome,  Well spoken and Charismatic. He could say I am going to kill you and flash that smile and people would say okay and feel honored.   There was allot of strife during his 8 years.  Ultimately he was in my opinion Step 1.

 

Trump Scares the living daylights out of me. In my Opinin he is step 2.

 

He has the silent majorities vote. Over 75 percent of Americans are white. He appeals to them not because they are stupid but because Obama stage 1 mind you,  aggravated race relations like only a racist community leader can. During Obamas  time in office we saw more race riots and hate crimes against the LBGA communities than any other time in history in the U.S. since the 60's and 70's.

 

I am serious and not taking sides here,  please take a look at the number of race riots and LBGA hate crimes that have taken place under Trumps administration by comparison.

 

Trump is an outsider.

 

Turmp is only step2 he will see 8 years.

 

What worries me most is what comes after him.

 

We need to be cautious,  we need to cool off,  we need to look hard at political affiliation and quick fixes and easy ways out,  we as a nation need to get real and drop the mamby , pamby political correctness non-sense. We Americans could afford to live in a fantasy for a long time off the sweat blood and tears of our past. 

 

We no longer have that luxury the slack is running out.

 

Hitler  was a monster,  the likes of which we will never forget. 

 

The things that led to that little asshole being able to disrupt all of humanity and murder countless people needs to be watched out for.

 

I could honestly care less if he was right wing or left wing. 

 

Ideologies do not matter.

 

What matters is when patterns repeat themselves we better quite being polarized to any political ideology wake up and see what is happening.

 

Member 3bob goes to far he sees what I see but he just freaks out over it over and over again and it goes no where.

 

I am appealing to both sides and every spectrum in-between saying drop you God Damned polarized political party beliefs and really see what is going on.

 

This country is in deep shit. If you doubt my words then please explain how we got the last two terrible presidents?

 

Obama and Trump.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Pilgrim

[windwalker]

8 minutes ago, Pilgrim said:

This country is in deep shit. If you doubt my words then please explain how we got the last two terrible presidents?

 

Obama and Trump.

 

Can you stay or bring to light why you feel Trump is in the same category as Obama.

 

Do agree with most of what you stated about Obama.

Edited November 16, 2018 by windwalker

[Pilgrim]

I will try. 

 

Trumps message scares me because it is soo good, soo appealing to the silent majority. 

 

Whites by and large are a very successful subset of humanity.

 

There is no denying it. In the USA They are the majority.

 

By and large Whites are terrible warlike devestating,  intelligent,  destroying creatures.  We like to fuck,  and make more of ourselves even at the cost of rape more than any other demographic.

 

On the very odd flip side once sated we are benevolent to a fault to all other races.

 

All other creeds and casts.

 

Whites are a scary breed when upset.

 

Obama upset the apple cart.

 

Trump is telling you better God Damned well better be upset.

 

Trump is not wrong. 

 

Trump is however just like Obama playing a part making sides against sides when we all need to be on the same side.

 

United we stand Divided we fall. Unification takes the following:

 

1. Tolerence

2. Patience 

3.Compassion

4. Common Sense despite what your party is selling.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Pilgrim

[windwalker]

1 hour ago, Pilgrim said:

Trumps message scares me because it is soo good, soo appealing to the silent majority. 

 

I would not characterize the silent majority along racial lines. 

 

It is true by demographics that whites did at one time make up the majority of the people in the United States.  

 

This is no longer true according to some statistics and will no longer be true according to most in about 10 to 20 years time.

 

when most people refer to White they're actually talking about Western culture and values.

 

That for whatever reason can be looked on as the major source of advancement for the human species.  Lots of studies done on this culture does matter.

 

Trump is an interesting person in that most of this life was spent in some way some fashion preparing him for this moment.

 

My own expectation is that the blacks start to wake up and move away from the Democratic plantation, along with other ethnic minorities understanding what's going on and has been going on.

 

Most people are not educated enough to understand what is meant by the First Amendment and what they referre to as freedom of the press.

 

What is called the  press was never meant to be part of the opposition party which it is now.  Trump is truly the first 21st century president understanding the value, use and function of social media.

 

At some point he will be instrumental in developing comprehensive guidelines, to monitor and implement government controls that could not be in visioned during the time of the Constitution was written.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by windwalker

[Pilgrim]

Sorry you are wrong. Whites 76.6%

 

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US#

[windwalker]

22 minutes ago, Pilgrim said:

Sorry you are wrong. Whites 76.6%

 

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US#

 

Doesn't matter, I did mention according to some statistics.  All or most say this will change in 10-20yrs.  

 

Many seem to look forward to this as some kind of milestone/achievement, instead of the food fight that it will be.

[Pilgrim]

Does matter, today matters,  10 to 20 years  Is in the future. Clear and present danger is now.

 

In 10 years Trump will no longer be POTUS.

 

Someone else will be.

 

 She will be dangerous.

 

And it will no doubt be a food fight unless people quit being led like a bull with a ring in it’s nose just because of a favored dare I say it narritive?

[Aetherous]

1 hour ago, Pilgrim said:

Whites by and large are a very successful subset of humanity.

 

There is no denying it. In the USA They are the majority.

 

By and large Whites are terrible warlike devestating,  intelligent,  destroying creatures.  We like to fuck,  and make more of ourselves even at the cost of rape more than any other demographic.

 

On the very odd flip side once sated we are benevolent to a fault to all other races.

 

All other creeds and casts.

 

Whites are a scary breed when upset.

 

Whew, I don't ascribe to these racist ideas. I do think whites are still a slight majority (the actual number is around 60% if you don't count latinos...look back at the census site).

I don't think "white" is even a race...I'm mostly Finnish and Norwegian, think there's quite a bit of difference between that and let's say British people. Italians are often counted as white, and they're completely different. Irish are different. Spanish are different. Georgians are different.

Just like I don't say "black people are lazy and dumb", I also don't say "whites are destroying creatures who will even rape in order to breed". We've gotten a lot of people on the left pointing fingers and claiming that others are racist lately, but these ideas ARE actually racist.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Aetherous

[Pilgrim]

They are factual and do not compliment whites. Too bad. Get over it. I did.

[windwalker]

"Non-Hispanic whites make up 62.6% of the country's population"

 

A quick search turn this up.

 

As I said reading what you posted I feel it would be more apt to say Western cultures Western values, that those in the silent majority hold regardless of ethnicity.

 

The point being that large influxes of people from south of the border will change the demographics considerably.

 

Allowing for changes that are marked by the cultures they come from. 

 

The "dims" somehow  feel they can control this which is why they do not push for immigration reform.  When they are the party not in power.  

 

Oddly enough do so recognizing the danger when they happen to be the party in power.

[Aetherous]

10 minutes ago, Pilgrim said:

They are factual and do not compliment whites. Too bad. Get over it. I did.

 

Hey, I can take some constructive criticism, but racism is just stupid...not at all factual.

[Pilgrim]

There is nothing raciest about what was written. A while back in a different thread I posted links to statistics from the FBI and other government agiencies census bureau as I recall.

 

The statistics had to do with violent crime, race and type of crimes committed. 

 

What these government agencies reported was the following:

 

1. Whites are the majority in th U.S.

 

2. Whites have more incidents of rape than any other group.

 

3. Blacks have more incidents of murder even though they make up a much smaller percentage of the population.

 

There were even more statistics but the point is whites are the majority as such one has to take into account due to being a very large percentage greater than other races the numbers are going to be quite a bit higher.

 

The numbers on convictions for rape however are very high. Embarrassingly high.

 

Whites for the most part have run things in America. I do not see history depicting any other group coming to these shores and taking control and maintaining it. 

 

I have not not looked at statistics for those in power in Washington but it looks like mostly white men.

 

It is not racist to point out what is. 

[Marblehead]

20 hours ago, ralis said:

Fascism is a right wing idealogical movement which is easily proven if one has even a modicum of intellectual curiosity.

I must regretfully agree with Ralis this time.  Fascism is extreme Right mentality.

 

[Marblehead]

I think the best example of Fascism would be Italy pre-WWII, not Germany.  There were too many insane conditions with German Fascism.

 

[Apech]

I think the political landscape is quite confusing these days - and probably always was.  Certain words like Liberal have different means in Europe compared to America (where it means Left).  I think that the historical fact of 'Liberals' siding with Fascists against Communism doesn't mean that the Liberals were fascist but simply they underestimated its ruthlessness and they thought they could control it.

 

Fascists essentially are collectivist and see the best way to run a state is to embody the state in person of the leader plus his elite.  They maintain corporate capitalism but the companies are expected to work for national aims.  Individual liberty is subsumed under the 'destiny' of the state.

 

Socialism is also collectivist but sees state ownership of the means of production as the way forward - in its pure form.  However in the West there are various cases of democratically elected socialist governments which while introducing a variety of social reformed like state medicine and so on created a mixed economy, with both private and public ownership of key industries.  In fact this is the standard model in Europe.  Whatever the current position is has evolved through time - mostly with the 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' approach.

 

What distinguishes left and right is very fuzzy these days but its still correct to call Fascism far-right and Communism far-left.

[windwalker]

47 minutes ago, Apech said:

What distinguishes left and right is very fuzzy these days but its still correct to call Fascism far-right and Communism far-left.

 

This might help to make it a little more clear

 

 

[Apech]

7 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

This might help to make it a little more clear

 

 

 

 

Nice bit of muddying the water by D'Souza ... it is stuff like this that makes the issue fuzzy in the first place.  But he has a point that the modern progressive left is quite fascistic in its outlook just replace national identity with intersectional identity.

 

 

[windwalker]

Just now, Apech said:

Nice bit of muddying the water by D'Souza .

 

Why not explain a little more about whats so muddy....