Lucid dreaming and Tibetan dream yoga

[Zen Pig]

Have discussed this in the past, but will bring it up again, because I feel that it is important to say.  My dreams are lucid,  and not from anything special about me, but because of doing sitting meditation for many years. It was never my intent to have lucid dreams, but here we are, and more importantly, I believe that anyone can develop lucid dreams from a daily meditation practice. Nothing special, just don't get in a hurry.   It took me at least a couple of years of daily sitting, 2 to 3 hours a day before the majority of my dreams were lucid. 

With that said,  this has been an interesting, and constantly developing story.  I never heard of Tibetan dream yoga, until I decided to investigate what the hell was going on with the dream changes.

I first looked at the western wealth of lucid dreaming  techniques which included things like, "reality checks" during the day,  which is a process of asking yourself many times a day if you are dreaming right now, or in the "real world".  With my experience in already having lucid dreams, this did not set well, as the western premise was that there was a solid "real" world, and then the "un-real" world of dreams.  But if it helps folks , then more power to them. 

The more problematic thing I saw in the western take on lucid dreams, was the idea that a lucid dream was kind of like one of those computer games kids play,  a kind of fantastic game where you could do anything you wanted.  This too struck me as being focused on a self centered desire to just experience some kind of pleasure or excitement and seemed kind of on the low end of shallow. Not the say that I don't have fun walking through walls or flying in my dreams at times, but there are much more deeper things to explore, and that is where Tibetan dream yoga comes in.

The Tibetans seem to have a take that is closer to my experiences.  Instead of asking if "this is the real world or am I dreaming", I tend to see the so called real world as being more of a non lucid dream than the dream world.  If you are dreaming and don't realize you are dreaming, then that world is as real, in that moment as this one.  You get frightened, angry,  happy, excited,  etc, just like in this world, then you wake up and say, "this was not real, it was only a dream".   In lucid dreaming, you know it is a dream, and one can use intent to see different things, talk to different life forms, lots of things, but one still feels, taste, hears, all the physical experiences are there. In fact in lucid dreams,  the colors, the intensity of nature is much greater than most day to day waking world sights. 

Lastly, for me, this process of dreaming is evolving.  I find myself more and more both in a dream, and at the same time experiencing myself laying in bed.  both are occurring at the same time,  and I find that going into the dream state is much faster now,  and fluid.  Lucid dreaming also gives me a better understanding of so called, "experiencing the moment" in my day to day life.  Instead of seeing this world as solid unmovable matter, I see it as a kind of lucid dream,  and If i put my intent in daily life, it does tend to unfold much the way a lucid dream would. 

Just scratching the edges of this deeper aspect of consciousness,  have not idea where it will go,  but I encourage anyone who is interested to develop a simple sitting meditation practice.  Sit with no intention of getting anything out of it,  but just sit to sit, just witness.  Like I said,  I think everyone can do this and it is well worth the time.  happy sitting, 

 

[Rishi Das]

Thanks for sharing, Zen Pig. Your post brings me back to a time years ago when I was lucid dreaming and using that state and space to further explore meditation (i.e. I was consciously sitting in meditation in my dreams). At the time, I mentioned what I was doing to my teacher; he first laughed and then proceeded to upbraid me for it. To this day, he still pokes fun about it. *shrugs*

 

I recognize now that it was just another form of spiritual materialism. A fancy new parlor trick if you will. In that way, it was selfish and desire seeking. Having said that, I do resonate and agree with your feeling that the western stuff is typically too self-centered; at least for me.

 

My understanding now is that lucidity is the point and not what we do with it. 

 

Happy sitting. 

RD

 

Edited November 17, 2018 by Rishi Das

[liminal_luke]

By the way, today is the first day of Glidewing`s Tibetan Dream Yoga workshop with Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche.  https://www.glidewing.com/twr/dreamyoga_home.html

[doc benway]

I find Dream and Sleep Yoga practices immensely valuable and satisfying.

Like Zen Pig says, you need a lot of patience but better not to take it too seriously, better to be a little playful.

If we're going to spend 1/3 of our lives asleep, why not choose lucidity over ignorance?

 

 

[Zen Pig]

great comments.

4 hours ago, steve said:

better not to take it too seriously, better to be a little playful.

If we're going to spend 1/3 of our lives asleep, why not choose lucidity over ignorance?

yes Steve. being playful having  a since of humor in life seems to be almost magical.  not taking life so serious, works for me. not that I don't engage in life, family, living dying, but i just don't take it so cut in stone so to speak.  

When I get folks who tell me that some guru or teacher either takes lucid dreaming to serious, or just not serious at all. I have to think that they have not had real dreams, and are just blowing smoke up our asses. i could be wrong, and I will own that, but for me, lucid dreams have very wise things to say at times, and sometimes it takes me years to understand what they say, so to just blow them off as nothing, is kind of a nihilistic thing. but that is what i see so far, might change, and I will still be laughing.  

[Cheshire Cat]

There are many different meditation techniques that help in LD.  And a lot more that actually help you to sleep in dreamless states. 

 

Despite the fascinating name, Tibetan dream yoga doesn't work for LD in my experience. 

[Zen Pig]

5 hours ago, Cheshire Cat said:

There are many different meditation techniques that help in LD.  And a lot more that actually help you to sleep in dreamless states. 

 

Despite the fascinating name, Tibetan dream yoga doesn't work for LD in my experience. 

 

Thanks for sharing.  I started to have lucid dreams by just doing a lot of sitting meditation every day. was not trying to have lucid dreams.  As I have stated a few times in the past, from what I have experience, and seen in others, the simple act of sitting meditation, can help folks have spontaneous lucid dreams. 

My journey with Tibetan dream and sleep yoga, was discovered after starting to have lucid dreams, so have no idea if it would have helped me at first or not. 

I have found a couple of valuable techniques in Tibetan yoga, such as bringing consciousness to the throat chakra right before sleep, and also they have a version of what the western lucid dreamers call, W.I.L.D or waking induced lucid dreaming,  where one just looks at the images in the closed eye lids, before sleep, not trying to see anything, just a kind of meditation.  with all that said. one of the things I have seen in folks who want to learn how to have lucid dreams, is the very act of trying to do it.  kind of like trying to not think during meditation.  the very thing that is trying, is the thing that is blocking.  but that is only my experience, other folks might have other experiences. 

[Rishi Das]

17 hours ago, Zen Pig said:

When I get folks who tell me that some guru or teacher either takes lucid dreaming to serious, or just not serious at all. I have to think that they have not had real dreams, and are just blowing smoke up our asses. i could be wrong, and I will own that, but for me, lucid dreams have very wise things to say at times, and sometimes it takes me years to understand what they say, so to just blow them off as nothing, is kind of a nihilistic thing. but that is what i see so far, might change, and I will still be laughing.  

 

I think what you're saying is completely fair and should be noted in the minds of all students sitting with teachers or potential teachers. We definitely shouldn't put down critical thinking when it comes to any of this.

 

In my case, the teacher wasn't taking a position on lucid dreaming at all. It had nothing to do with lucid dreaming and everything to do with my selfish motivation and arrogant disposition. I probably could have been more clear about that in my original post.. 

 

I do concur that sitting practice seems to play its part in manifesting the experience of lucid dreams. I also think that mindfulness off the cushion plays its part. I think these things because I have never actively tried to be lucid during dream time, it just happens. 

 

I resonate with your statement that it takes years to understand what they say. I wonder if you seek that understanding actively (e.g. journal, contemplation, etc.)? If so, has that been valuable? 

 

In my case, I don't write about or actively contemplate them. I do find that they spontaneously appear back in consciousness, sometimes years later, as either confirmation to a new understanding or as additional information that leads to a new or more expansive understanding. 

Edited November 18, 2018 by Rishi Das

[Zen Pig]

1 hour ago, Rishi Das said:

 

 

 

In my case, I don't write about or actively contemplate them. I do find that they spontaneously appear back in consciousness, sometimes years later, as either confirmation to a new understanding or as additional information that leads to a new or more expansive understanding. 

yes, my friend my exact experience, it comes from somewhere that is not something  I can noodle out. so to speak. good comment