Calling all students of hermeticism

[Katastral]

Hey everybody! 

I just got finished reading the Kybalion (yes, I am an occult newbie) and I got very interested in developing the skill of mental transmutation..
Therefore I want to ask all of you for any tips you might have for practices or books to read! 

I would also love to hear your about your experiences and any thoughts you might have on the subject  

Thank you in advance!

[rideforever]

Hello !

 

"If the Universe is Mental in its nature, then Mental Transmutation must be the art of CHANGING THE CONDITIONS OF THE UNIVERSE"

 

Must be ?  Well maybe that's not the right conclusion.  Perhaps mental transmutation means changing the mind itself (i.e. waking up inside it) ... rather than changing outside.

 

Who is this mind ?  Is it you ?

[Katastral]

My own thoughts is that transmutation can be applied on all the planes of existence known to us (spiritual, mental and physical), and that they all feed of eachother (as below so above). If I am not mistaken the planes should effect eachother most effectively descending in that order (spiritual, mental and physical).

 

How to transmute on a mental and physical plane seems quite obvious to me.. How to do it effectively on the spiritual is not as clear however! I have had some minor success simply by finding the "vibrational frequency" I want to transmute through meditating on a feeling - say happy or sad for instance - and then focusing on the “edge” of the emotion that is facing the way I want to go (happy in this example). Does this make any sense?

I wonder what form of techniques would be the most powerful.. Visualization? Feeling into the energy? Maybe some form of surrendering or something that I am missing?

[rideforever]

There is a technique called "feeding your demons" .... where you visualise the vibration (or character) of something you want to transmute and create the antidote to it which is fed into it to create reconciliation.
Which is all good fun.

The Male Female polarity exists at many levels and in many different ways.
For instance when you go out into existence and do the transforming, from where are you doing it.
It's like you send the sword out, but where is the chalice from where it springs.   A pair.

When something is understood, where is the understander ?  A pair.

Emotional transmutation is for instance sadness to joy.
Intelligence transmutation is for instance 'I don't know who I am' to 'I recognize who I am'.

 

[Nintendao]

Once the ingredients have been prepared and set to brew,

Tending to the fire is all that's left to do..

 

[rex]

Could never get on with this book or feel enthused enough to persevere with it.  There is the view that it is a 20th Century fraud:

 

http://www.nickfarrell.it/kybalion/

http://www.nickfarrell.it/it-is-not-your-fault/

http://www.nickfarrell.it/ancient-kybalion-discovered-british-museum/

 

In fairness this view is one particular person's view and I don't know how widely accepted it is.

 

 

 

 

[Katastral]

41 minutes ago, Nintendao said:

Once the ingredients have been prepared and set to brew,

Tending to the fire is all that's left to do..

 

Very nicely put! But are you saying that no further knowledge is required? 

Edited November 21, 2018 by Katastral

[Katastral]

1 minute ago, rex said:

Could never get on with this book or feel enthused enough to persevere with it.  There is the view that it is a 20th Century fraud:

 

http://www.nickfarrell.it/kybalion/

http://www.nickfarrell.it/it-is-not-your-fault/

http://www.nickfarrell.it/ancient-kybalion-discovered-british-museum/

 

In fairness this view is one particular person's view and I don't know how widely accepted it is.

 

 

 

 

Thank you! I actually read the first link before and felt like the arguments were fairly weak. Not to say that I trust the Kybalions claims blindly but this did not put me of it either. 

[Katastral]

2 hours ago, rideforever said:

There is a technique called "feeding your demons" .... where you visualise the vibration (or character) of something you want to transmute and create the antidote to it which is fed into it to create reconciliation.
Which is all good fun.

The Male Female polarity exists at many levels and in many different ways.
For instance when you go out into existence and do the transforming, from where are you doing it.
It's like you send the sword out, but where is the chalice from where it springs.   A pair.

When something is understood, where is the understander ?  A pair.

Emotional transmutation is for instance sadness to joy.
Intelligence transmutation is for instance 'I don't know who I am' to 'I recognize who I am'.

 

This is the kind of stuff that I am looking for! Very intresting...

Do you visualise the vibration as lower frequency than is present in your own sphere? Or do you tune in to what is already present? To clarify my question: If I am already feeling happy to an extent; do I imagine the vibration of sadness first, and then reconcile it with the antidote - wich I guess is the opposite polarity - ?

I also wonder if you are pointing out the difference of emotional and intelligence transmutation to point out that there is no universal rule to transmutation? As in there are several categories wich you best transmute in different ways or on different planes even.

Edited November 21, 2018 by Katastral

[rideforever]

Yes one has to see transmutation in many planes layers and so on ... and understand its nature there.

 

In "feeding your demons" it is directed in a more psychological fashion meaning you feel something in you that is not right, then visualise it with personal details (a sad person, a monster) or whatever, and feel what it really represents and then you generate the antidote and allow it to consume the antidote sort of thing.  You find Tsultrium Allione on youtube and sit through a guided meditation.

 

Some people if they are in a happy state will remember unhappy states in order to work on things that bother them from time to time.

 

It may also be possible to work on material that is not strictly your own, meaning you go somewhere that is unhappy and sitting in that place you transmute stuff ... but to what end I don't know.

 

Your whole life can become a transmutation for instance in a male-female relationship you can transmute your sexual energies together.   And your sexual energy, like your sexual seed, is the final product of digestion of food.   Also air as a substance is another category that is transmuted - but I am not an expert in such things.

 

Things can be transmuted by will for instance when you use courage to meet an event, there is a transmutation of energy with a result.  Yin Yang leads to Yuan.

 

Basically the principle at all levels is like connecting two wire, once connected they generate Yuan.  But one has to do some work to make that connection.   Without some effort the wires disconnect themselves ... which is entropy.   So this design of the universe forces a constant work on the participants, they must continue to digest and reconcile material.   Because life exists to live, not to be a slob, it needs to do something to continue so it must always be bridging things, which is known as "growing".

 

That's about as much as I know.

[rideforever]

3 hours ago, Nintendao said:

Once the ingredients have been prepared and set to brew,

Tending to the fire is all that's left to do..

Yes according to the "Law of Seven" there are particular times where a little kindling of the fire is needed, which is an interesting idea.  If you set up a project it will roll on, but at certain pre-determined points there will need to be an injection of energy.   Very interesting concept although I have never seen it myself, although I know full well that from time to time a bit of whump is needed.

[rideforever]

When Judy Tzuke sings "I need you tonight", she is singing about transmutation and a very fine level of transmutation available to human creatures.

 

 

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, Nintendao said:

Once the ingredients have been prepared and set to brew,

Tending to the fire is all that's left to do..

 

 

But tend that fire low and slow

not hot and bright with a splendid show

for the first is alchemy, that is true

the second chemistry, and that is 'new'.

 

[Nungali]

9 hours ago, Katastral said:

Hey everybody! 

I just got finished reading the Kybalion (yes, I am an occult newbie) and I got very interested in developing the skill of mental transmutation..
Therefore I want to ask all of you for any tips you might have for practices or books to read! 

 

I suggest some more original works rather than these recent 'imaginings' or extensions of early works  .

 

Also one needs to understand the basis of these ; that is, what understandings, models and  'truths' existed at that time upon which these writings and understandings where had. Just taking the old hermetic ism at face value and trying to operate it in today's framework does not work - without a whole lot of speculations and additions and suppositions, often highly illogical and personal .

 

One case is what is the apparent  'transference medium' ? In hermeticism (old school)  the universe was seen 'inside God' as a series of encased 'crystal spheres' .. we where influenced by the 'spheres of the planets' (for example) as we where actually 'encased' inside them with the Earth as the stable centre of the system  ;

 

 

But now we have a different model , the issue is do we accept the old principles and try to operate them in the field of new understandings, or adopt the new understandings and eliminate the old principles ?

 

This is why i refer to call my interests and feild of work -  ' Neo-hermetics'.

 

To understand this is a first essential step ; I recommend you read the first chapter here, its a great overview and will help put all future hermetic work in perspective for te modern person.

 

Here is a free and easy to navigate copy for you :

 

https://archive.org/details/originsofmoderns007291mbp/page/n7

 

Next, I recommend getting a general background on the movement through history, who the major players where, what they bought to the 'table' and how things progressed through the ages . This is a giod informatie easy to read and entertaining outlook on it ;

 

 

 

Quote

I  would also love to hear your about your experiences and any thoughts you might have on the subject  

Thank you in advance!

 

 

Experience is long and varied .  To much for a general rave .  But I dont mind answering specific questions .

Edited November 21, 2018 by Nungali

[Nintendao]

Wow good stuff, all. May your works be blessed. I probably won't be able to contribute much to the recipes, but hopefully can help temper the tools.

 

On 11/21/2018 at 10:51 AM, Katastral said:

Very nicely put! But are you saying that no further knowledge is required? 

Mostly just a small advice to not overdo certain things. A constant application of focused yet gentle attention on the root of the matter is often all that's needed.

 

Like if i'm to boil an egg, it might help to be familiar with some of the molecular processes going on inside the shell, but ultimately it's not up to me to carry them out, just set up the optimal conditions for it to happen.

 

I most like to illustrate it with a beautiful quote from some wise bums.  It's on a different topic about daoist practice, but i like to think the principles carry over.

On 2/10/2017 at 12:20 PM, liminal_luke said:

On 2/9/2017 at 10:34 AM, cheya said:

Not from a dictionary, but cultivation is also what you do with a garden, taking care of the plants every day, supplying what they need, protecting them, removing weeds, and thus supporting the unfolding of their inherent nature.

 

So... caring for (work) and attending to (focus) the growth and development of a plant, a skill, or even your own health.

 

Exactly this.  What I personally like (and find difficult) about the concept of cultivation is there`s this sense that things can`t be forced.  I can provide the right conditions for the growth of a plant, keep it watered, put it in a sunny window, etc.  What I can`t do is reach into a stem and forcibly pull out the flower.  These things happen in their own time according to their own mysterious logic.

 

Edited November 23, 2018 by Nintendao

[Katastral]

18 hours ago, rideforever said:

Yes one has to see transmutation in many planes layers and so on ... and understand its nature there.

 

In "feeding your demons" it is directed in a more psychological fashion meaning you feel something in you that is not right, then visualise it with personal details (a sad person, a monster) or whatever, and feel what it really represents and then you generate the antidote and allow it to consume the antidote sort of thing.  You find Tsultrium Allione on youtube and sit through a guided meditation.

 

Some people if they are in a happy state will remember unhappy states in order to work on things that bother them from time to time.

 

It may also be possible to work on material that is not strictly your own, meaning you go somewhere that is unhappy and sitting in that place you transmute stuff ... but to what end I don't know.

 

Your whole life can become a transmutation for instance in a male-female relationship you can transmute your sexual energies together.   And your sexual energy, like your sexual seed, is the final product of digestion of food.   Also air as a substance is another category that is transmuted - but I am not an expert in such things.

 

Things can be transmuted by will for instance when you use courage to meet an event, there is a transmutation of energy with a result.  Yin Yang leads to Yuan.

 

Basically the principle at all levels is like connecting two wire, once connected they generate Yuan.  But one has to do some work to make that connection.   Without some effort the wires disconnect themselves ... which is entropy.   So this design of the universe forces a constant work on the participants, they must continue to digest and reconcile material.   Because life exists to live, not to be a slob, it needs to do something to continue so it must always be bridging things, which is known as "growing".

 

That's about as much as I know.

Thank you, I really appreciate the answers!  

This is all intresting stuff. Let me ask you something about how you speak of connecting the wires if I may.. Is it beneficial or even required in your opinion that the "two wires" are of a "Yin and Yang" character in order to manifest into Yuan (wich I am guessing represents the before unknown manifestation)? And could those also as easily be translated into "positive and negative" or "masculine and feminine"? 

An example of this could perhaps be ones will and courage (Yang?) to overcome financial hardship (Yin?) and transmute from passive to productive being the Yuan in this case.

How am I doing here? 

[rideforever]

8 minutes ago, Katastral said:

How am I doing here? 

 

Yeah, well I have learnt most of these things from Gurdjieff / Fourth Way, so they describe it as Affirming  / Denying / Reconciling energies, or the Law of Three.

So for instance once upon a time I was cycling home with high winds in my face, it was pretty gruelling and I felt a little crushed, but then I attempted to reconcile it by Affirming (facing / courage / meeting .... ) the wind (Denying) and after a few minutes something just clicked and I was filled a beautiful energy in the zone (Reconciling).
I have also tried this direct transmutation with negative energy reconciling to positive, and again there is the resultant Reconciling Yuan.

So with the cycling it great to be able to put yourself into the zone without fear .... a tunnel of meeting life and getting the reward Yuan.
But the entire structure of the universe seems to follow these rules, for instance marriage.   Digestion of food (not my expertise but read Ouspensky).   And spiritual journey.
And importantly what happens to the Yuan, or how can I benefit from the Yuan ... where does the energy go ?   How can I make it go into me ?  Well I suppose one answer is that more of you has to be doing the Law of Three, not just with food, not just with relationships, not just with cycling against the wind .... but everything ... it becomes your nature.  You learn to feel the way through like "Cutting Up an Ox" if you have read that.

[kyoji]

1 hour ago, rideforever said:

 

Yeah, well I have learnt most of these things from Gurdjieff / Fourth Way, so they describe it as Affirming  / Denying / Reconciling energies, or the Law of Three.

So for instance once upon a time I was cycling home with high winds in my face, it was pretty gruelling and I felt a little crushed, but then I attempted to reconcile it by Affirming (facing / courage / meeting .... ) the wind (Denying) and after a few minutes something just clicked and I was filled a beautiful energy in the zone (Reconciling).
I have also tried this direct transmutation with negative energy reconciling to positive, and again there is the resultant Reconciling Yuan.

So with the cycling it great to be able to put yourself into the zone without fear .... a tunnel of meeting life and getting the reward Yuan.
But the entire structure of the universe seems to follow these rules, for instance marriage.   Digestion of food (not my expertise but read Ouspensky).   And spiritual journey.
And importantly what happens to the Yuan, or how can I benefit from the Yuan ... where does the energy go ?   How can I make it go into me ?  Well I suppose one answer is that more of you has to be doing the Law of Three, not just with food, not just with relationships, not just with cycling against the wind .... but everything ... it becomes your nature.  You learn to feel the way through like "Cutting Up an Ox" if you have read that.

Cook Ting was cutting up an ox for Lord Wen-hui. As every touch of his hand, every heave of his shoulder, every move of his feet, every thrust of his knee — zip! zoop! He slithered the knife along with a zing, and all was in perfect rhythm, as though he were performing the dance of the Mulberry Grove or keeping time to the Ching-shou music.

“Ah, this is marvelous!” said Lord Wen-hui. “Imagine skill reaching such heights!”

Cook Ting laid down his knife and replied, “What I care about is the Way, which goes beyond skill. When I first began cutting up oxen, all I could see was the ox itself. After three years I no longer saw the whole ox. And now — now I go at it by spirit and don’t look with my eyes. Perception and understanding have come to a stop and spirit moves where it wants. I go along with the natural makeup, strike in the big hollows, guide the knife through the big openings, and following things as they are. So I never touch the smallest ligament or tendon, much less a main joint.

“A good cook changes his knife once a year — because he cuts. A mediocre cook changes his knife once a month — because he hacks. I’ve had this knife of mine for nineteen years and I’ve cut up thousands of oxen with it, and yet the blade is as good as though it had just come from the grindstone. There are spaces between the joints, and the blade of the knife has really no thickness. If you insert what has no thickness into such spaces, then there’s plenty of room — more than enough for the blade to play about it. That’s why after nineteen years the blade of my knife is still as good as when it first came from the grindstone.

“However, whenever I come to a complicated place, I size up the difficulties, tell myself to watch out and be careful, keep my eyes on what I’m doing, work very slowly, and move the knife with the greatest subtlety, until — flop! the whole thing comes apart like a clod of earth crumbling to the ground. I stand there holding the knife and look all around me, completely satisfied and reluctant to move on, and then I wipe off the knife and put it away.”

“Excellent!” said Lord Wen-hui. “I have heard the words of Cook Ting and learned how to care for life!”

[rideforever]

Yes, I have actually been doing a Male/ Female balance meditation, several times a day, in the last few days.   Very interesting, often my inner female is griefstruck and screaming, and the male is healthy but a bit distant and dreamy.   Things are changing and it feels good.
I take great care of the inner female, and speak to the inner male to be more grounded.
And so if we are weilding the male / female in our lives .... learnt whichever way ... for instance in TaiChi .... then we can cut through and enter the channel of yuan that runs through every situation ?

http://kaytaylorparker.com/product/inner-male-and-female-balance-meditation/

Edited November 22, 2018 by rideforever

[Katastral]

17 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

I suggest some more original works rather than these recent 'imaginings' or extensions of early works  .

 

Also one needs to understand the basis of these ; that is, what understandings, models and  'truths' existed at that time upon which these writings and understandings where had. Just taking the old hermetic ism at face value and trying to operate it in today's framework does not work - without a whole lot of speculations and additions and suppositions, often highly illogical and personal .

 

One case is what is the apparent  'transference medium' ? In hermeticism (old school)  the universe was seen 'inside God' as a series of encased 'crystal spheres' .. we where influenced by the 'spheres of the planets' (for example) as we where actually 'encased' inside them with the Earth as the stable centre of the system  ;

 

 

But now we have a different model , the issue is do we accept the old principles and try to operate them in the field of new understandings, or adopt the new understandings and eliminate the old principles ?

 

This is why i refer to call my interests and feild of work -  ' Neo-hermetics'.

 

To understand this is a first essential step ; I recommend you read the first chapter here, its a great overview and will help put all future hermetic work in perspective for te modern person.

 

Here is a free and easy to navigate copy for you :

 

https://archive.org/details/originsofmoderns007291mbp/page/n7

 

Next, I recommend getting a general background on the movement through history, who the major players where, what they bought to the 'table' and how things progressed through the ages . This is a giod informatie easy to read and entertaining outlook on it ;

 

 

 

 

 

Experience is long and varied .  To much for a general rave .  But I dont mind answering specific questions .

Thank you very much, I like the approach! This seem like it could be some very helpful tips indeed  I'll check the link and the book out and hopefully return to you with some good questions! 

[peacedog94]

To all,

 

For anyone interested in Hermeticism, I strongly recommend checking out the website of Rordan Phobos at yogicengineering.com.

 

For practical instruction, check out Mark Rasmus. He has a vimeo channel here: 

Rasmus is probably the preeminent Hermetics teacher in the Western world at this time. Primarily because his is the only school openly teaching the body training methods required to transmute at  physical level.

 

As for the specific techniques being involved here, keep in mind that Hermetics represents a tool kit of about 50-60 discrete skills, all of which must be mastered, before it become functionally useful.

 

These skills are representative of what would be taught in a cultivators temple over the course of a year to 18 months in Asia.

 

Franz Bardon's first book "Initiation into Hermetics" includes everything needed, except they physical training.

 

Rasmus has done journeymen's work  in developing a comprehensive system of body training. At this point his is the only openly operating school of Hermetics that has this. Those familiar with a complete system of jibengung from the TCMAs will find little surprising here, but it is rarer in the Western systems.

 

Without a system of body training practitioners are largely limited to mental and some astral level effects. With proper physical training you can bring it down into the physical which leads to a more complete form of transmutation for those interested here.

Edited November 22, 2018 by peacedog94
completeness

[Michael Sternbach]

On 21.11.2018 at 10:48 PM, Nungali said:

 

I suggest some more original works rather than these recent 'imaginings' or extensions of early works  .

 

While that's fair enough a thing to say in regards to some of the more recent publications, the Kybalion IMO is a useful book, well founded in traditional Hermetic concepts. Although published anonymously, it is now generally believed to be authored by Paul Foster Case, whose Golden Dawn based Tarot studies are well worth looking into for anybody interested in this field.

 

I would be the first to agree that many pearls are to be found in old works of Occultism, although I am not sure what 'original' is really supposed to mean in this context. There has been a continuous flow of Hermetic writings since time immemorial to the present day; some helpful, others not so much. At any rate, old age alone doesn't make texts more worthwhile, nor does being newly created invalidate them in any manner.

 

Also, many of the old writings, despite the timeless and priceless information they often contain, are long winded and couched in obscurities (sometimes deliberately!), and indeed quite a pain to read for any but the most dedicated and determined amingst modern readers.

 

It's a natural process that the knowledge of the old days is being presented in more contemporary style and context, of which the Kybalion is a decent example. It too has aged, but it has done so well, overall. It too has its limitations, to be sure, but overall, I consider it a good introduction to Hermetism for the modern reader, and I have recommended it as such on some occasions.

 

Quote

Also one needs to understand the basis of these ; that is, what understandings, models and  'truths' existed at that time upon which these writings and understandings where had. Just taking the old hermetic ism at face value and trying to operate it in today's framework does not work - without a whole lot of speculations and additions and suppositions, often highly illogical and personal .

 

One case is what is the apparent  'transference medium' ? In hermeticism (old school)  the universe was seen 'inside God' as a series of encased 'crystal spheres' .. we where influenced by the 'spheres of the planets' (for example) as we where actually 'encased' inside them with the Earth as the stable centre of the system  ;

 

 

But now we have a different model , the issue is do we accept the old principles and try to operate them in the field of new understandings, or adopt the new understandings and eliminate the old principles ?

 

You have opened a can of worms an important topic here - as with the advent of the Scientific Revolution, so much of Western Occultism lost its previous foundation in the natural philosophy of Hermes, Plato and Aristotle.

 

While I agree that some of the information provided by the ancients needs to be reconsidered and rephrased from a sophisticated modern perspective, the latter comes with its own limitations, indeed with blindness when it comes to metaphysical considerations, and I often feel that the authors of yore were closer to the truth essentially.

 

There is much work to be done in reconciling ancient and modern perspectives, something I am pursuing as one of my great personal interests.

 

As to your example of a geocentric cosmos, yes, Copernicus and his successors seemingly did away with that, and for reasons that were good enough at the time. However, eventually Einstein came and showed that neither geocentrism nor heliocentrism are 'true' in an ultimate sense, as there is no absolute frame in regards to which this could be determined. Therefore, both turn out to be valid perspectives after all, depending on where you stand as the observer.

 

As Georg Christoph Lichtenberg said, there is a big difference between still believing something and believing it again - the former being an expression of silliness and superstition, the latter of deep thought and philosophy.

 

Quote

This is why i refer to call my interests and feild of work -  ' Neo-hermetics'.

 

To understand this is a first essential step ; I recommend you read the first chapter here, its a great overview and will help put all future hermetic work in perspective for te modern person.

 

Here is a free and easy to navigate copy for you :

 

https://archive.org/details/originsofmoderns007291mbp/page/n7

 

Next, I recommend getting a general background on the movement through history, who the major players where, what they bought to the 'table' and how things progressed through the ages . This is a giod informatie easy to read and entertaining outlook on it ;

 

 

 

 

 

Experience is long and varied .  To much for a general rave .  But I dont mind answering specific questions .

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Michael Sternbach

[Joe]

On 11/21/2018 at 5:31 AM, Katastral said:

or books to read

 

Most likely The Kybalion was written by William Walker Atkinson. It's his writing style, his publisher, and the 1917 French edition's translator attributes the work to him. He was also known to write under pseudonyms (e.g. Yogi Ramacharaka). But regardless of who the real author is, Atkinson's books are highly relevant to mental transmutation, and can be found online. I also highly recommend Thomas Troward's works such as The Edinburgh Lectures on Mental Science, and Creative Process in the Individual.

 

For sources closer to Hermes himself, it's definitely worth mentioning the Corpus Hermeticum.

[Desmonddf]

My only tip is : Do not take hermeticism too seriously. It is relatively good, but many authors and books (not to mention hermetic orders) will try to mentaly submit and castrate you - usually by either pride or mental pressure. 

 

Stay light and you'll be able to dive in these muddy waters without being dragged to the bottom of the hermetic food chain

[Nungali]

Sounds like you are talking about the  'Black brothers'  ?