Why do so few qigong masters radiate vitality?

[Zork]

1 hour ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

Why do so many yoga people not have any martial skill? 

 

Tranquility + exercise = yoga and internal arts. There are countless benefits to these methods of exercise.

 

Being lazy and judging others abilities = To scared to do the work for oneself and then complain that someone else can not do the work for them.

 

Oh they all look like shit and and are ruining everything for me, One teacher had a white hair and he is only 68 years old and he had glasses, how can ever learn, I cant learn, I do not want to learn that crap, it is all just garbage and a waste of time...... But this hot chick born beautiful with no need to exercise doing some yoga poses, that totally works for me. I am going to join her class so I can be beautiful like her. She must have amazing skills to look like that wouldn't you say? She is 17 but looks like she could be 21.

 

I went to India and met this amazing Yoga guru he radiated vitality. You are all just wasting your time with that other crap, you do not know what you are missing. Then I learned he was human what a waste of time. 

 

 

 

If she teaches in underwear, she can teach me whatsthenameoftheyogasystemagain anytime!

Edited November 27, 2018 by Zork

[rideforever]

10 hours ago, zerostao said:

my chosen qigong, baguazhang, fits into the above  op description  qigong/tai chi

baguazhang contains every element of Taoist Alchemy & higher energetics---

of course i do other practices and cannot claim that qigong alone has increased my health longevity on its own

but it sure as heck has played a major role.

your studies have led you to your opinion

and mine have led me to mine.

i say this because at the moment i am likely 30 years younger than i was 10 years ago

Hi.
So what exactly are you doing ?   I am interested.

[Cheshire Cat]

20 hours ago, vonkrankenhaus said:

 

Pretty much, that is the truth. 

 

Not "secret", but not "mainstream" either.

 

People find mostly just what it is they have been told to find.

 

Nobody is packaging and selling this right now.

 

 

[Nintendao]

"Nobody is packaging and selling this right now." Yes of course they are!! It is by prescription only though. Each application is tailored specific to the individual and administered by a trained professional. You not supposed to eat someone else's prescription right? It mess you up. It's not secret just so that it complies with an ancient tradition, or even worse because it's not real to begin with.  It is perceived as secret in the same way as in that Seinfeld episode where Elaine kept trying to look at her charts that the doctor kept hidden on his clipboard. Most people if they knew what was on there would actually understand very little of it and likely get mislead and hurt themselves even worse..

[Miroku]

A good session of a legit yoga (like yantra yoga) can do things with a body that might be harder to achieve with soft qigong. One can have pretty clear experiences when using body. Qigong can be bit harder as it involves bit more of mental calmness and relaxation.

However yes. It does not matter how many hours of yoga or qigong you do if you do not train your mind to be loving and compassionate.

[Wu Ming Jen]

post deleted

Edited November 28, 2018 by Wu Ming Jen

[Jetsun]

The person with the greatest vitality/longevity is probably the Dalai Lama, who is 83 but still traveling the world teaching and full of energy, his American doctors say he has the constitution of a man half his age. I am sure his Buddhist practice helps but if you look at his routine he gets up every morning and goes on a treadmill, before having a bowl of cornflakes! I think it is likely if you asked him though he would say his secret is warm-heartedness.

 

But no matter what practice you do genetics are always going to play a major part in your health, health practices and stress reduction can influence genetic expression to some extent but never fully , you are always going to have the genetic history of your two family lineages to contend with. If your ancestors lived through a famine no doubt that "memory" is going to be encoded in your system in some way influencing your health. 

[JohnC]

On 11/22/2018 at 4:12 AM, Vajra Fist said:

For all the promises of qigong and tai chi, I can't think of a single qigong master that radiates good health and vitality. 

 

 

 

I hope you meet some better quality masters.

 

They are certainly out there.

 

John

[Miroku]

On 28. 11. 2018 at 2:01 PM, Jetsun said:

The person with the greatest vitality/longevity is probably the Dalai Lama, who is 83 but still traveling the world teaching and full of energy, his American doctors say he has the constitution of a man half his age. I am sure his Buddhist practice helps but if you look at his routine he gets up every morning and goes on a treadmill, before having a bowl of cornflakes! I think it is likely if you asked him though he would say his secret is warm-heartedness.

 

But no matter what practice you do genetics are always going to play a major part in your health, health practices and stress reduction can influence genetic expression to some extent but never fully , you are always going to have the genetic history of your two family lineages to contend with. If your ancestors lived through a famine no doubt that "memory" is going to be encoded in your system in some way influencing your health. 

I believe that in case of H.H. it can be also cause by his diet as he is most probably eating not too much and quite healthily and regularly (these three things can make a huge difference, I remember when for a week I ate bit less and in more regular manner and I have never felt as good). Plus the fact that he is a truly accomplished meditation master. However, even he says that the age has caught up and has been feeling fatigue lately, which resulted in a less demanding travel programme. 

[Nintendao]

[freeform]

I’m sorry I didn’t read the full thread - but the OP makes an excellent point. I completely agree.

 

But I disagree that Buddhist meditators look any better - in fact in most cases their mind is dull and distant and the energy is sluggish and dissipated.

 

The reason is that most Qi Gong teachers who teach openly in public tend to have completely empty practices - they’re just moving imaginary energy around. And sadly they also believe that they don’t need exercise.

 

So yoga practitioners, who most often also have completely empty forms, at least get regular physical exercise, stretching and so on.

 

Sometimes Qi Gong practitioners will have a generally authentic practice, but they get caught at the first major hurdle - overcoming their base desires - and you’ll find them addicted to cigarettes, alcohol, sex and junk food. Also a common sight. Many like this in China.

[Miroku]

11 hours ago, freeform said:

But I disagree that Buddhist meditators look any better - in fact in most cases their mind is dull and distant and the energy is sluggish and dissipated.

Where did you come up with that?

[freeform]

1 hour ago, Miroku said:

Where did you come up with that?

 

Experience 

[Miroku]

1 hour ago, freeform said:

 

Experience 

Then I have to strongly disagree.

[freeform]

3 hours ago, Miroku said:

Then I have to strongly disagree.

 

Ok. Could you share your experience then?

[Miroku]

8 minutes ago, freeform said:

 

Ok. Could you share your experience then?

When done right and correctly and for long enough, buddhist practices make one more grounded, present and mind is quite light. Ofc when tired or old, mind does its own thing, however the best meditators who are great masters are often of sharp mental faculties even when old and quite relaxed and happy whatever happens. HH. Dalailama is a great example, next is Garchen Rinpoche, Chetsang Rinpoche and many many others. I have met them and also met many "ordinary" meditators who were not nearly as realized yet they were complete oposite of what you have described.

[freeform]

3 hours ago, Miroku said:

When done right and correctly and for long enough, buddhist practices make one more grounded, present and mind is quite light. 

 

I think that’s the whole point. 

 

Its actually pretty rare. There’s a lot of delusion in these arts unfortunately. It becomes quite obvious when you see the difference between a real teacher with real achievement and ones with very little (but with all the adornments).

 

Saying that - practitioners with even very little cultivation are generally much calmer, more centred and at ease than the average modern westerner... But that’s not saying much...

[Miroku]

10 minutes ago, freeform said:

 

I think that’s the whole point. 

 

Its actually pretty rare. There’s a lot of delusion in these arts unfortunately. It becomes quite obvious when you see the difference between a real teacher with real achievement and ones with very little (but with all the adornments).

 

Saying that - practitioners with even very little cultivation are generally much calmer, more centred and at ease than the average modern westerner... But that’s not saying much...

Maybe not to you but calmer mind and more relaxed nature are some of the true signs of practice working together with love and compassion. And its not that hard nor that rare. It is not squeezing diamons from a coal using your buttcheaks or whatever people do these days. Nor is it making sth out of nothing. It is just re-discovering of what we already have. 

[freeform]

15 hours ago, Miroku said:

Maybe not to you but calmer mind and more relaxed nature are some of the true signs of practice working together with love and compassion. 

 

To me that sounds like a healthy individual.

 

But it’s important to realise that this is not the crowning achievement of these ancient wisdom traditions. And by thinking that they are, we’re selling ourselves short on what’s possible (yes I’m obviously talking about butcheek diamonds!)

[Miroku]

3 hours ago, freeform said:

 

To me that sounds like a healthy individual.

 

But it’s important to realise that this is not the crowning achievement of these ancient wisdom traditions. And by thinking that they are, we’re selling ourselves short on what’s possible (yes I’m obviously talking about butcheek diamonds!)

It might sound like that but healthy individuals are quite rare and we all have our hangups. Practice can eradicate those. Many so called healthy individuals are still in the clutches of 8 worldly concerns and practitioners can go beyond them or at least lessen them. 

It is not the crowning achievement, however it is a sign that those who practice do it correctly and are actually either approaching the crowning achievement, or even already working with it. I wholeheartedly agree with you in what you have said in another thread about daoism that often western buddhists get rid of important stuff. I see it happen with so many zen groups in the US that are so far away that I doubt there is any enlightenment possible since they have denounced everything. That is a shame. However buddhism is still going strong and there are many great masters and even more good practitioners and practices still bear fruit.

[centertime]

Hi all,

 

I would like to add another perspective.

A chi kung master can look bad if they overuse their resources/ energies.

Or they use it up using healing...They get carried away,,,,

Even if they have more chi, if they deplete it, they may end up looking similar to one who has less chi,

What could better to know you ration your chi, how smart you use it... Do you use it wisely and keep some chi ?

 

Edited December 23, 2018 by centertime

[Everything]

On 12/20/2018 at 4:31 PM, Miroku said:

It might sound like that but healthy individuals are quite rare and we all have our hangups. Practice can eradicate those. Many so called healthy individuals are still in the clutches of 8 worldly concerns and practitioners can go beyond them or at least lessen them. 

It is not the crowning achievement, however it is a sign that those who practice do it correctly and are actually either approaching the crowning achievement, or even already working with it. I wholeheartedly agree with you in what you have said in another thread about daoism that often western buddhists get rid of important stuff. I see it happen with so many zen groups in the US that are so far away that I doubt there is any enlightenment possible since they have denounced everything. That is a shame. However buddhism is still going strong and there are many great masters and even more good practitioners and practices still bear fruit.

You can never get rid of important stuff. No matter who or what you are. Your important stuff are always fully ready for you in it's ever expansive state of ever becoming. Sure, you can  create the temporary illusion of getting rid of important stuff, and then be like, yeah, this is not important. And that may give a great moment of rest. But don't you see how important this rest is?! How valuable?! How meaningful?! Everyone's constantly moving to their greater importance, evermore. They just haven't realised this yet. But when they do, they can then co-create in harmony with their ever greater importance, in such a way that they then allow that process to speed up for themselves. At whatever rate they are comfortable with allowing the ever greater greatness of importance into their life. And ever greater meaning and meaningfulness into their life. And it doesn't matter wether you are an office worker, computer programmer or a buddha. If it feels better for you in the moment when you say "this too is not important." than that is the most important thing for you to say in that moment, and nothing else in all the universe is thus then more important for you in that moment. And if it feels better for you in the moment of saying "This feels so good, there is something really important for me here now" and you feel better as you say it, then there is nothing in all of the universe that is more important for you in that moment of saying it. And if you speak with your heart in mind at all times like this, then you speed up the process of your enlightenment infinitely! And it doesn't matter who or what you are, or where or when you are, enlightenment is always one step away from where you are. To feel better and to simply lighten up on your self. For you are the enlightenment that you seek.

[Miroku]

5 minutes ago, Everything said:

You can never get rid of important stuff. No matter who or what you are. Your important stuff are always fully ready for you in it's ever expansive state of ever becoming. Sure, you can  create the temporary illusion of getting rid of important stuff, and then be like, yeah, this is not important. And that may give a great moment of rest. But don't you see how important this rest is?! How valuable?! How meaningful?! Everyone's constantly moving to their greater importance, evermore. They just haven't realised this yet. But when they do, they can then co-create in harmony with their ever greater importance, in such a way that they then allow that process to speed up for themselves. At whatever rate they are comfortable with allowing the ever greater greatness of importance into their life. And ever greater meaning and meaningfulness into their life. And it doesn't matter wether you are an office worker, computer programmer or a buddha. If it feels better for you in the moment when you say "this too is not important." than that is the most important thing for you to say in that moment, and nothing else in all the universe is thus then more important for you in that moment. And if it feels better for you in the moment of saying "This feels so good, there is something really important for me here now" and you feel better as you say it, then there is nothing in all of the universe that is more important for you in that moment of saying it. And if you speak with your heart in mind at all times like this, then you speed up the process of your enlightenment infinitely! And it doesn't matter who or what you are, or where or when you are, enlightenment is always one step away from where you are. To feel better and to simply lighten up on your self. For you are the enlightenment that you seek.

Sure, whatever

[Everything]

2 hours ago, centertime said:

Hi all,

 

I would like to add another perspective.

A chi kung master can look bad if they overuse their resources/ energies.

Or they use it up using healing...They get carried away,,,,

Even if they have more chi, if they deplete it, they may end up looking similar to one who has less chi,

What could better to know you ration your chi, how smart you use it... Do you use it wisely and keep some chi ?

 

Yeah, many teachers and healers overexhaust themselves because of the tremendous value of their work. So this is definitely a common thing. But that is because they have not yet learned to approach their teaching and healing in a way that is effective as you say. The most important person you can heal is yourself. For if you are not healed, than what healing can you offer anyone else, ever? You cannot get sick enough to help sick people become better. That is why one must find their own enlightenment, by lightening up on one self, and not be so hard on one self. Loving your self unconditionally is the greatest leverage one can have in their offering of unconditional love towards all beings in all of creation. And thus, it is the greatest power that one can possibly hold in one self. To love oneself so unconditionally, that one care about how they feel, more than anything in all of creation, and from that standpoint of unconditional alignment with who it is they really are, they then can offer endless healing and gifts and benefits and value unto all beings in all of creation. And nothing is off-limits to them. For they summon and allow the energy that creates worlds in their unconditional state of alignment with that same energy that is the Source of All Creation in All of Existance. And one who is in alignment in this way, is more powerful than millions who are not. And more importantly, they feel better than millions who are not. So what is there left, but their everlasting journey of ever greater fulfillment that is of their ever lasting and ever greating teaching, and ever greater blessing, unto all beings in all of creation.

But again, there is no such thing as healing. There is only the offering of the state of being of already being healed, that one can choose to addopt or not. The only reason one denies their own health is two fold. Either it is arrogance that stands in their way, or ignorance. And both are easily tended to. And the greatest value you can offer them, is to simply point that out, and that's it. Cause if they continue to ignore, it will get worse. And then they will have no choice but to face that which they denied to face. Which is always their greater value in life, and health, and sanity. They just have to find a way for themselves to allow themselves to relax into that. That's all.

 

There was a quote in dao de jing about how the sage adviced the watering of the disturbance, to allow it to grow. So that one can let go of it. Relaxing into the pain is often the way to heal it. And otherwise, there is a distraction of pain, but usually if distraction was a way to solve the problem then pain would not have manifested in the first place. So basically, all the greatest teachings are basically based on the art of allowing, that is the energy that one is summoning by virtue of their being in existance and not fight it so hard, but letting go and letting flow. Letting go and letting god. And allowing. And the problem takes care of itself. And you enjoy the journey aswell. So the already being healed and the ever greater healing is one and the same thing.

Edited December 23, 2018 by Everything

[Everything]

3 minutes ago, Miroku said:

Sure, whatever

Exactly. Beautifully done. Masterful creation. You got the hang of this! 

Edited December 23, 2018 by Everything