Vipassana and now kunlun

[rkc]

Hi everyone! I’ve just begun kunlun... a bit stalled for want of a rubber mat... but using a woollen shawl meanwhile. Tailed this in after Vipassana. I found the latter very helpful in deepening consciousness practices. 

 

I come with consciousness practices aka Neville Goddard,  Vadim Zeland. Have practiced deep meditation as per classical Raj yoga, Qi gong of various paths, and a few healing streams.

 

Now looking to accelerate everything.

 

with kunlun level one, was told to add one breath and I jong. In what order do you do them? And what duration? Is one breath practiced with I jong ?

[Fa Xin]

Hello, Rkc, and welcome.

 

Your membership is approved and we're happy you found your way to us. We look forward to accompanying you on some of the way that you still have to go.

 

Please take the time to read the post pinned at the top of this Welcome page and take a look at the forum Terms and Rules.   This covers all you need to know when getting started.

 

For the first week you will be restricted to ten posts per day but after that you can post as much as you like. Also, until you’ve posted fifteen times in the forums, you’ll be a “Junior Bum” with somewhat restricted access and will be allowed only two private messages per day.

 

Good luck in your pursuits and best wishes to you,

 

Fa Xin and the TDB team

 

Hi rkc,

 

im not familiar with Kunlun but there’s a few here that are. Maybe try to search at the top. Welcome and enjoy. 😊

 

You are welcome to jump right in to the ongoing discussions, revive an older thread, start a new thread of your own, or start a discussion in the "Newcomer Corner" sub-forum to expand on your introduction or ask general questions to help you get started.

 

May you enjoy your time here.

 

Fa Xin

[Marblehead]

Hi rkc.  Welcome.

 

[Aetherous]

22 hours ago, rkc said:

Hi everyone! I’ve just begun kunlun... a bit stalled for want of a rubber mat... but using a woollen shawl meanwhile. Tailed this in after Vipassana. I found the latter very helpful in deepening consciousness practices. 

 

I use a sheepskin rug. If I had both, I'd put the rug over the rubber mat. You know it's good when the material doesn't make your feet cold. For instance, cement would make your feet cold...very bad idea. With sheepskin, my feet even warm up a little bit...great.

 

22 hours ago, rkc said:

Now looking to accelerate everything.

 

It's good to study with Max. If you're not able to, then one of his certified students from the site.

 

22 hours ago, rkc said:

with kunlun level one, was told to add one breath and I jong. In what order do you do them? And what duration? Is one breath practiced with I jong ?

 

One breath can be done with pretty much any practice (unless a breath method is part of the practice), or it can be done alone as its own practice. It's good to do for calming the mind, which is helpful prior to Kunlun practice. Good to do it during I-jong.

 

I-jong is good to do prior to Kunlun practice, and was the common way it was done while I was in seminars. Max said it helped ground people. It's also good to do on its own separate from Kunlun.

The duration is up to you. Max told us that traditionally his teacher made him do standing practices until there was a puddle of sweat on the ground beneath him. He also said that's not at all necessary or even desirable. We'd often do 10 minutes of standing, during the seminars, prior to Kunlun. If doing it at a separate time, sometimes we'd stand for much longer, like 30 minutes to a couple hours. I think if your body is really hurting, it's not necessary to do it to that extreme of a level. The relaxed and natural way is better.

[rkc]

17 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

Hello, Rkc, and welcome.

 

Your membership is approved and we're happy you found your way to us. We look forward to accompanying you on some of the way that you still have to go.

 

Please take the time to read the post pinned at the top of this Welcome page and take a look at the forum Terms and Rules.   This covers all you need to know when getting started.

 

For the first week you will be restricted to ten posts per day but after that you can post as much as you like. Also, until you’ve posted fifteen times in the forums, you’ll be a “Junior Bum” with somewhat restricted access and will be allowed only two private messages per day.

 

Good luck in your pursuits and best wishes to you,

 

Fa Xin and the TDB team

 

Hi rkc,

 

im not familiar with Kunlun but there’s a few here that are. Maybe try to search at the top. Welcome and enjoy. 😊

 

You are welcome to jump right in to the ongoing discussions, revive an older thread, start a new thread of your own, or start a discussion in the "Newcomer Corner" sub-forum to expand on your introduction or ask general questions to help you get started.

 

May you enjoy your time here.

 

Fa Xin

Thank you Fa Xin! I’ll find my way around. Looks like an eclectic mix of practices here... look forward to Learning and sharing!

[rkc]

Thank you Marblehead.

 

Thank you for the very helpful advice and guidance Aetherous. I’ll see if I can find any teachers where I live

[rkc]

Aetherous, there seem to be no teachers available to me. So will follow the book, and helpful advice such as yours. 

[Apech]

Hi rkc,

 

Welcome to the forum.  I know nothing of Kunlun.  But I am now puzzled/intrigued by the need for a rubber mat!

 

A.

[thelerner]

2 hours ago, Apech said:

Hi rkc,

 

Welcome to the forum.  I know nothing of Kunlun.  But I am now puzzled/intrigued by the need for a rubber mat!

It is curious.  From Max's description it was originally an animal skin (I used a small lamb rug from Ikea) but can also be a rubber mat.  The purpose is to stop 'leakage'.  

 

Interesting since other styles are into meditating on the ground, thus the opposite.  Ofcourse full lotus can be said to be a 'locking device' too.  Different philosophies for different arts. 

 

[thelerner]

If you want to travel back in time to an excellent thread in the middle of the Dao Bums initial Kunlun run, here's a good one-

On 10/16/2007 at 9:54 PM, Smile said:

So, it's been over 2 months now practicing Kunlun Level 1. Most of the days it's 1 hour in the morning and one hour in the evening, but some days more and some days less, all based on how I feel about it. It's probably too much and I wouldn't recommend doing it 2 hours/day to anyone unless they are doing other meditation practices for long periods of time. And by doing it, I really mean "doing it", not thinking about it or "well, every minute of my life is practice" crap.

 

I had my thoughts against starting yet another practice. My friend Alex was all excited about it because he is a long time fan of Max. To me at the time, I wanted to focus on one practice and the claims like "One hour of Kunlun is like doing any other spiritual practice for 100 years" were just too much to take it seriously. Then I had 2 dream experiences with Max and his teacher and that convinced me to try it and see what happens. After all, who needs to sleep when you can sit in a chair and move like a retard in an epileptic seizure for an hour?

 

I started moving right away with my legs bouncing and hands and body moving left and right. Sometimes it was too violent and I had to keep saying "slow down" to calm myself. Over weeks the movements became more harmonized and sometimes mixed with periods of stillness. There were many experiences and a few times "things" came to observe.

 

So what do I think so far?

 

The way I observe Kunlun Level 1 works is basically like an excavator- the energy generated through the posture moves through your physical body and "unearths" anything on its way. When I say anything I mean anything- "past" experiences, feelings and emotions are all game and it's up to you to deal with it. It is a very good advice not to practice too much at the beginning and see how you can handle it. Then you can increase the practice according to how much you can take.

 

In a way, Kunlun reminds me of Vipassana. In Vipassana it's more controlled as you go around your body with your mind eye focusing on different body parts and observing the sensations. As you become more sensitive, the sensations reveal the energies connected to them and you can relive the moments of this and other lives connected to those energies.

 

To explain more what I mean...

 

Time is a man made thing. It doesn't exist. All the lifetimes and all the experiences charged with emotions and feelings are connected to the energy fragments that create "you" right now. If you look with the clear mind, you can see that every moment of this life and other lives are all here. They are everlastingly present and alive. Some are strongly charged with emotions and those are connected to the energies making "you". There is much more to it and I can talk more about it in details, but don't want to get off the topic.

 

As you go deeper in meditation, you experience the sensation and the energy connected with it and may "see" and relive moments from your life you forgot all about. As you relive them, the emotional energy gets released/freed and so is the influence of the event. Your destiny may change, your karmic influences may ease up and eventually be gone.

 

How is it all related to Kunlun? Well, Kunlun effects are similar but it can open up more then you can face. And that's why I truly believe there maybe something to it when they say "1 day of this is like 100 years of others". Of course, don't take it literally but you should understand the thought behind it.

 

My advice you should start really slow and progress gradually so you know you can handle it in a safe manner. For most people it shouldn't be a problem. I believe other levels of Kunlun will address the subtle deeper energies that weren't affected by level 1. Like peeling the onion.

 

 

Is it worth doing? Like I said before it will "gently move you to emptiness meditation in a natural way". To me, it's worth the price of gold because most people are unable to do that. Their bodies, minds and energy is like a garbage dump in a middle of a highway to Mexico. Need a lot of internal work to be done. Kunlun addresses this in an easy way anyone can implement. The question is: Can you take it all in and deal with it when it's pouring out of you? lol

M.

 

[rkc]

Thelerner, thank you.... should I be at all surprised that Smile found the same connection between Vipassana and Kunlun that I was staring at. And I’ve just about begun both.

 

Ive also had the same thoughts about time... it doesn’t exist, except in the human or earth experience. So all ‘past life’ experiences are created in this moment. Or in the moment of remembrance. And can be uncreated or recreated in the now. 

 

Apech , Thelerner has quoted Max’s answer about the need for insulation with the rug or rubber mat. I’m not in favour of extraneous props, but I reckon I’d go with the basic process till I know better, like thelerner.

 

though neville and zeland moved me inside by miles, these two practices, V & K, have given me very speedy shifts physically, tangibly. 

 

This is has been incredibly useful for me Thelerner

[liminal_luke]

rkc,

 

Sifu Jenny Lamb, who originally taught Max Kunlun (she calls it Yi Gong) is also a Buddhist meditator.  She says that if you`re doing Yi Gong without awareness you aren`t doing Yi Gong.  So the awareness and focused attention developed in practices like vipassana synchs very well with Kunlun.  Other strong practitioners have combined Kunlun and vipassana as you seem to be doing.

[rkc]

9 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

rkc,

 

Sifu Jenny Lamb, who originally taught Max Kunlun (she calls it Yi Gong) is also a Buddhist meditator.  She says that if you`re doing Yi Gong without awareness you aren`t doing Yi Gong.  So the awareness and focused attention developed in practices like vipassana synchs very well with Kunlun.  Other strong practitioners have combined Kunlun and vipassana as you seem to be doing.

Liminal luke, I really appreciate that insight. I hadn’t heard of Sifu Jenny Lamb either. 

 

Awareness along with the bigger picture is the core of any practice, as it is with the entire life process. Which is why I could be doing rigorous practices for years and not really touch the heart of the inner self or the primary cause.

 

Though every practice offers a bigger picture, the instant clarity and application I found with Neville Goddard and Vadim Zeland is outstanding. When I bring that consciousness to  practices like Vipassana... it’s mind blowing. 

 

I’m sure many here with their deep practices will be able to benefit from them. 

 

Do you all do various forms of Qi gong?

 

 

[rkc]

By the way, this is for any kunlun beginners that may stumble onto this... 

don’t begin without a rubber mat, fur rug or leather mat... I tried woollen shawl... but some days in have developed a low back pain. This is a result of ‘energy leakage’ affecting the kidneys that Max warns about on his site. 

 

If if I go deeper, I probably bought into that agreement... which is one way to populate your reality... 

[thelerner]

Here's an important quote from long ago from Max himself.  He starts out saying not to teaching kids under 18, then writes-

 

"I have been asked by people why we do Kunlun on an animal skin or rubber mat. (The traditional method was to use deerskin or a piece of large leather, but a rubber mat will also be fine, but not as good as a natural skin.) The answer to this question is that all yogic traditions used the fur for insulation purposes. If you touch the bare ground while practicing, the qi can leak from the lower areas of the body, thereby draining the kidney qi. Also the animal skin acts like an energetic barrier keeping the qi from leaking into the ground. The fur prevents the magnetic potential generated by the practice from penetrating into the earth. Walking barefoot on the ground is good for your health and grounding when you are not practicing.

 

Outside practices: Don’t practice in a windy area (disperses your chi), around large body of water (greater takes from the lesser) or direct sunlight (over heat). These are important and wise rules to follow. Practicing outside, under the shade of a large evergreen tree works best, as it acts like an energetic filter.

 

Another “don’t” is practicing between 1-3pm, because of the negative influences energetically.

 

For those who practice various forms of yoga, a “don’t” method is Bikram (hot) yoga, bastrika methods or various forms of kundalini. The reason is that with Kunlun, we are practicing the “Water path” or downward flow through the spine, while others methods are the upward or “fire’ path. The Kunlun path is gentle, peaceful, without using force, while the fire path is more aggressive in nature, meant to open the chakras through alternate nostril breathing, fire breathing and other fire based practices.

 

Now kriya yoga will work fine with Kunlun, as long as the practices are separated by at least four hours. White tantric kundalini that uses mantras is also fine. Emptiness methods, laughing methods, mantras, other Taoist methods like five elements, pole standing and Chinese martial arts can also compliment this art.

 

Another important “don’t” is using illegal drugs and alcohol with our methods. This is a foolish thing to do as these substances do not mix well with the Kunlun system. The use of such substances is not beneficial to your health or to your practices as you want a clear mind during awakening. Furthermore, the high or relaxation you experience while on drugs or alcohol comes at a price. The mingmen, also known as the gate of life, closes, and your life force diminishes. So keep clear minded and the inner light will also become clear and bright.

 

Individuals with bipolar disorder should not do Red Phoenix or Kunlun because these people need grounding first in the outer world. Doing the one- breath and the five elements would balance the five emotions and the organs as well.

 

An important fact to know and remember is that awakening is 99% of clearing the mind of its negative virtues and ego’s. When the energy of Kunlun flows through you, the mind and body purifies. The body is a container of mind experience reflecting both positive and negative attributes generated by mind experience, the body purifies with the mind when one or the other releases negativity.

 

The most important thing is to live your art. “Do” live life simply and treat others with compassion, just as you want to be treated. Be positive about your life and the hidden possibilities Kunlun can and will reveal to you."

 

[AdrianD]

Hello rkc,

 

thanks for starting this thread as I'm reading Max's Kunlun Book (2014 Version) at the moment. Synchronicity kicked in yesterday as I also browsed Vadim Zeland's book while reading you post in which you mention him...
Would be great to hear more of your progress. I basically read every Kunlun thread here in the last months, as a lot of them are quite old it's good to get some new info.

Regards,

 

Adrian

[rkc]

2 hours ago, 道 熊 猫 said:

 

thanks for starting this thread as I'm reading Max's Kunlun Book (2014 Version) at the moment. Synchronicity kicked in yesterday as I also browsed Vadim Zeland's book while reading you post in which you mention him...
Would be great to hear more of your progress. I basically read every Kunlun thread here in the last months, as a lot of them are quite old it's good to get some new info.

Hey Adrian, 

are you practicing it too? It would be great to hear further from you on it, if so. I too have the 2014 version. You must be reading Zeland’s first book. Do look up Neville too.... his books and lectures are easily available on the net free of cost.

 

Yeah, the synchronicity sure happens a lot.

 

To share something with you - 

It likely pertains to kunlun clearing, because I rarely get ill — I suddenly came down with a very painful lump in my throat and headache this morning soon after practice, and by evening it just as suddenly disappeared. In AYP, (advanced yoga practices, a fire path as opposed to kunlun, a water path) we called it purification, and when something stayed for long, over purification. Pacing was the answer. Probably  applies to kunlun too.

[rideforever]

Can I just check that wrt |Kunlun, this is the practice which begins by lifting the heels and then let the body move as it wishes whilst retaining awareness within ?

[AdrianD]

Hey rkc,

 

thanks for sharing.

I am currently not practicing. Altogether it was easy for my body to start auto-movement since I've been doing shaking exercises for years. I did the practice once for about 20 mins and then 20 min closing, since someone here suggested this in a thread. For me it ended with a lot of energy in my lower dantien which I perceived pretty hot, almost burning for less than an hour.

 

I also had problems concentrating and focusing my thoughts/staying on tasks for days. A friend of mine who sees auras told me some days later that there was still a lack of energy around my head. Well, it went away in the end but made me cautious - guess I have to work on energy cultivation first, hence I plan to do Five Elements, Three Ones or Golden Flower or other forms of Qigong for some time.

 

Glad to hear from Aetherous as someone who's experienced and also know's Max! It strikes me that Kunlun provoked so different experiences and opinions here over the years and still it's gotten quiet over the years as people moved on to other practices or maybe just don't converse on it anymore. Makes me wonder why and how far or where you can get with the practice.

 

 

 

 

[AdrianD]

6 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Can I just check that wrt |Kunlun, this is the practice which begins by lifting the heels and then let the body move as it wishes whilst retaining awareness within ?

That is correct. The practice does start with a certain Mudra.

[rideforever]

I have found it easier to sit on a low seat on the floor, bit like the Kunlun Hozn Taiwan group, sitting on the edge of a seat with ankles raised seems super unstable for me.