No More Mister Nice Guy, NMMNG

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, rideforever said:

I seem to be in the middle to surrendering lock stock to God, but at the same time these books are taking my interest - strange combination

 

What is masculinity? Ask ten men and you'll get ten vague, conflicting answers. Unlike any book of its kind, The Way of Men offers a simple, straightforward answer-without getting bogged down in religion, morality, or politics. It's a guide for understanding who men have been and the challenges men face today. The Way of Men captures the silent, stifling rage of men everywhere who find themselves at odds with the over-regulated, over-civilized, politically correct modern world. If you've ever closed your eyes and wished for one day as a lion, this book is for you..

 

 

 

 

The 'way of men' is some kind of military death cult  ?  Or is that a pic of 'who we have been' .

 

I am " at odds with the over-regulated, over-civilized, politically correct modern world."  yet I am certainly not  suffering    "   the silent, stifling rage of men everywhere. "  

 

Here is an interesting four fold map ;

 

https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/king-warrior-magician-lover-introduction/

 

 

There is also a 7 phase model  for the 'New Aeon Man' ( a bit more obscure and magical ) ;  the 7 heads as an angel, a saint, a poet, an adulterous woman, a man of valour, a satyr and a lion serpent .

 

Then there is the whole (mostly unknown and defunct ....  'on the outer'  in 'western society'   ) initiation system , which used to ( and still does, in some cases)  teach people how to become men , and be initiated into the various stages of manhood.  A very essential social principle - people without it tend to be 'lost' and rather FUed  .. and that has a greater reflection in societies where these processes have been lost .

 

regarding this ;   "  What is masculinity? Ask ten men and you'll get ten vague, conflicting answers ."

 

I was attending a 'men's group'  ... what a load of mixed up, lost and conflictual rubbish they were talking , or it was just 'tragic'  ... poor lost souls !  After a while I felt to ask the group a question ... there where about 30 of them.

 

" Who here , solely in their own terms of reference and understandings, feel they have been through some experience, or series of experiences that led them to think they had come into manhood ... had 'become a man' ."

 

Less than half put their hands up. So I asked another question.

 

" For those that didnt put up their hand, how many of you , again in their own terms of reference and understandings, have their own understanding or even definition of  what it means to be a man ."

 

A few put up their hands .  About half of the group of men, didnt even know, even in their own terms and definitions, what it meant to them, to be man .

 

Tragic and sad .    Our society has lost a LOT !

 

I am so glad and grateful  to my peers, my western initiatory school and my indigenous shamanic teachers that  helped me navigate through it all and come to realisation and success .

 

( I remember talking to the 'guys' around the fire one night , and one of them  was talking ... incredulous, confused and amazed ;  " Them white fellahs, at  that group thing I went to, they all talking about, why we here , what's the meaning of life ... whats the meaning of MY life  one wanted to know, why am I here "  (he was speaking about their collective and individual enquiries )  .... how can a feller get on - or a group of them , get on, or even do anything, if they dont even know why they are here or what the purpose of it all is ?  How can they have a good society, and even feel good and happy in themselves if they dont know that ? "

 

He turned to me and made the question less general and rhetorical ; " Well .... how can they get on ( function) like that ... how ? "

 

Me;  " Well , obviously , they cant ! Nor can their society . "     - a general shaking of heads and uncomprehension all round .    Then another piped up  "  Every one knew what I was here for and what my meaning was and what I was here to do , BEFORE I was born . "   .... a general nod of agreement all round .

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2018 by Nungali

[rideforever]

16 minutes ago, Nungali said:

Here is an interesting four fold map ;

 

KWML : used to have that book not find it useful, need action plan not archetypes and pretty drawings.  Not sure what the Way of Men book is about, not read it, yes looks a bit violent, but then who knows.  One chapter title is "The Bonobo Masturbation Society".   Hmm, good point.

So are you saying you are well adjusted then ?   Good for you.

Personally what is speaking to me is Awakening and Surrender into deathlessness (secretly I was always very competitive), being lead by life, lobotomising the feminising view of society and life, taking opportunities, learning what can be learnt, working on weaknesses.   These are practical things.  It's not a pretty world, grab what you can and leave.   Make it snappy before more shit happens.   Sounds good to me.

 

[Lost in Translation]

Essential knowledge for the 21st century male.

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Nungali]

3 minutes ago, rideforever said:

 

KWML : used to have that book not find it useful, need action plan not archetypes and pretty drawings.  Not sure what the Way of Men book is about, not read it, yes looks a bit violent, but then who knows.  One chapter title is "The Bonobo Masturbation Society".   Hmm, good point.

So are you saying you are well adjusted then ?   Good for you.

 

YOU need to make the action plan . The 4 fold scheme (and others) are just maps ... the 'wiring diagram'. 

 

Well adjusted  ?  Hmmmm , maybe not for some views of how I should operate in society. But well adjusted to life and my self and situation. I gauge that by a variety of means .  I have  come to feel a deep and abiding happiness, fulfilment, satisfaction, and appreciation and thankfullness,  mostly in that I have got the simple and great things I wanted out of life. And that is there in the background through hard times suffering pain etc .  ie, not just dependent on having a good 'situation' .  But I did get a 'head start' in life. .  

 

3 minutes ago, rideforever said:

 

Personally what is speaking to me is Awakening and Surrender into deathlessness (secretly I was always very competitive), being lead by life, lobotomising the feminising view of society and life, taking opportunities, learning what can be learnt, working on weaknesses.   These are practical things.  It's not a pretty world, grab what you can and leave.   Make it snappy before more shit happens.   Sounds good to me.

 

 

Some of that I dont 'get'  ( lobotomising the feminising view of society - Awakening and Surrender into deathlessnes ??? ) and some I do   ( being lead by life, taking opportunities, learning what can be learnt ) .

 

I think, that if what I learnt and practised  DID NOT lead to practical things , it would have been a waste of time , and I would not be where I am today .

[rideforever]

3 minutes ago, Nungali said:

I think, that if what I learnt and practised  DID NOT lead to practical things , it would have been a waste of time , and I would not be where I am today .

 

I was just thinking that actually, and in relation to many things that are discussed on this forum; the only real thing is to communicate with life directly, develop a direct direct relationship, communicate and be instructed, be lead, follow, co-operate with life itself directly.   Everything else is intermediaries, books practices and so on.   Surrender is really developing relationship where you know your place.   Must be begun sooner or later, all that went before means not so very much.

 

[Lost in Translation]

42 minutes ago, Nungali said:

Then there is the whole (mostly unknown and defunct ....  'on the outer'  in 'western society'   ) initiation system , which used to ( and still does, in some cases)  teach people how to become men , and be initiated into the various stages of manhood.  A very essential social principle - people without it tend to be 'lost' and rather FUed  .. and that has a greater reflection in societies where these processes have been lost .

 

VERY important point.

 

When I was a teenager I implicitly understood this. I thank Robert Heinlein for that knowledge. This was, in great measure, why I chose the join the Army when I was 19. I consider that the first of many "rights of passage" in my life.

[Nungali]

3 minutes ago, Lost in Translation said:

Essential knowledge for the 21st century male.

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

Well, yeah !   I didnt mention that as, I guess it seemed obvious .     Gotta have a 'fight club', in some form .    Mine is nicer than that ... we use wooden weapons and actually try NOT TO hurt each other  .... badly .     Sometimes shit happens ,  but the best cred goes to he (or her) that can pull off a deadly technique, and in the flurry and speed of action, can stop it, just at the point of impact . - thats control .... thats a man being in control of himself and the forces that often rule him .  Thats the 'king'  part of the 'equation' .

 

besides .....   it fun   

 

 

[rideforever]

Next on the list ...

[thelerner]

I liked that book, a good antidote to the mass of sappy self help books,  grabbed the audio from the Overdrive app that lets you access books and audios free from the library.

& for your listening pleasure-

great tune.

and this video was on the same page.  Might be worth a look.  Though perhaps we shouldn't give a f*ck

 

Edited December 8, 2018 by thelerner

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, rideforever said:

Next on the list ...

 

I have to confess .... I spent a large part of my life     giving a fuck  .  I gave them here, I gave them  there .

 

I would like to take this opportunity to thank all those women   who   .......  

 

 

 

[rideforever]

A core problem I can see is not trusting yourself.   "Why are you doing that ?"   .... "Because i want to, f**k off".

How many industries are run on the basis of telling people to stop and do it this way or that way.

It's ridiculous how many people want a piece of you.

And how many industries ... a large part of their work is to teach people to question themselves so that they will come running to buy products or services ... the  more fear and anxiety they can drive into people the more cash they get.

And then you start questioning yourself.

Which eventually drives you completely insane ... after all if you don't own yourself ... how can you be sane ?

Maybe this is the main problem, not sure.

FThat.

[redcairo]

> No More Mr. Nice Guy

 

I have recommended that book to several men. I've found that those who read it really seemed to need it, as evaluated by their reaction to it. Which was very good... somewhat destabilizing... but I see that for the best, since it's a journey, and in my experience all personal growth is led by destabilizing the foundation you're standing on -- you can't steal second with one foot on first, as the saying goes -- funny but I never read it myself, just read a ton of reviews about it and started sending or referring it to men I knew based on what they'd said. Nice to hear a bum say they liked it too. :-)

 

RC

Edited January 22, 2019 by redcairo
didn't have book title and realized a couple more were added to the thread