Clarification on Constructiveness of Posts

[Pilgrim]

1 minute ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Thanks for the nomination, Pilgrim.  I`m humbled by the notion but respectfully decline and in turn nominate  Trump and Ralis as co-administrators.  More conservative Bums often criticize left-wingers for our lack of policy know-how and emotional natures.  Putting me in charge would surely lend weight to that idea -- and we liberals are beleaguered enough.

 

In my ideal world, people would actually talk to each other without putting down the character of those they don`t agree with.  That`s the kind of Trump Talk thread I have long argued for and would actually enjoy.  It`s not politics per se that`s poison for the board; it`s the way people talk about politics.  There`s way too much attitude, way too much sneering.  Of course so-called spiritual conversation is not immune from the same conversational disease.  You are so stupid to think that the preheaven green dragon has to copulate with the inner yin of the red phoenix to get to the invisible immortal peach because my teacher said... 

 

If we could talk politics in a respectful way I`d be all for it.  We can`t.  

Better spell check Lol you wrote Trump not Trunk🤪

[Pilgrim]

2 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Thanks for the nomination, Pilgrim.  I`m humbled by the notion but respectfully decline and in turn nominate  Trunk and Ralis as co-administrators.  More conservative Bums often criticize left-wingers for our lack of policy know-how and emotional natures.  Putting me in charge would surely lend weight to that idea -- and we liberals are beleaguered enough.

 

In my ideal world, people would actually talk to each other without putting down the character of those they don`t agree with.  That`s the kind of Trump Talk thread I have long argued for and would actually enjoy.  It`s not politics per se that`s poison for the board; it`s the way people talk about politics.  There`s way too much attitude, way too much sneering.  Of course so-called spiritual conversation is not immune from the same conversational disease.  You are so stupid to think that the preheaven green dragon has to copulate with the inner yin of the red phoenix to get to the invisible immortal peach because my teacher said... 

 

If we could talk politics in a respectful way I`d be all for it.  We can`t.  

See this is why I nominated you about as fair and balanced as can be yet still of your own stripe.

[Aetherous]

26 minutes ago, Pilgrim said:

Oh hi yes sorry can see how that was confusing. First part was in direct reply,  second part about leinancy was just being lazy and typing as thoughts flowed freely.

 

Apologies nothing meant to be directed at you.

The first part, about leaving the forum to create another one? Really not understanding what you're reading in my post, which was meant to be helpful to all parties here, to make a reply like that. I don't think bad of this forum or its staff in any way.

But oh well, I don't really care, and it's all good between us.

[Pilgrim]

2 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

The first part, about leaving the forum to create another one? Really not understanding what you're reading in my post, which was meant to be helpful to all parties here, to make a reply like that. I don't think bad of this forum or its staff in any way.

But oh well, I don't really care, and it's all good between us.

😁 Thanks feel the same just alternatives that came to mind while reading.

[Stosh]

7 hours ago, Pilgrim said:

Now it is my turn to not understand why someone is responding this way. 

 

There are are alternatives to posting political discussion and current events as the media feeds them to us here and still hanging with ones favorite personalities was my point.

 

If it is an ill fit then move the venue😊

 

New agey That is funny isn’t that old ages by now? 

Paryicipants here talk about many things. So there are many threads , why invite people to leave  because some cant mind their own business? Or try to force others to fixate on the dubiously 'spiritual' . 

Is your spiritual aspect divorced from your real life behavior? Or do your attitudes pervade whatever you do?

 Even as the thread is pitted , can you npt see the tolerance exhibited? Can you not see the communities patience and gentleness in the trump thread? 

Hiding or dividing from our differences is a move taken out of an inability to handle ourselves in in the face of distraction or invalidation. 

Dont invite people to leave so as to focus yourself on matters of the heart because you then master nothing in your heart. You need the foil fpr your own position to exist as light and dark define one another. 

Does that answer you where I am coming from? 

So my question was , how is a zafu like a bo staff? 

[rideforever]

Problem with that DJT thesis is that he is one of few politicians who ever built anything in his life, and DJT build a lot, a great lot, and if you want someone to make USA rich then you are looking in the right place, maybe this is the future.
So 3Bob's views are in conflict with reality, but like I have said previously the paradox can be relieve by understanding that Trump is an subconscious man and so what his head says just does not mean much, he acts from the gut.   Of course people still ask his head things, but doesn't matter, he just says whatever.   But his gut is reliable and his experience impressive.

So there are people in our society who like people with nice talking faces, like Clinton Obama type professional snake-mouths who say everything perfectly.  Hilary for instance said she practiced for 6 days before a televised debate.   Really, 6 days.   What does that really mean.   When you tell the truth you don't need to practice anything.

So the head of Hilary is not worth much either.

Difference is DJT has a gut that is powerful and that's why he own 20 golf courses, partly owns 20 more, how many condos ?  20,000 I got no idea but he built that stuff which requires endless project appraisals financial deals zoning and all that stuff .... wow that is a huge amount of work and experience.

But sure his head doesn't say anything pretty, he doesn't have time he's busy.

Well I am not saying he's perfect but there's a lot of good in there.

 

So, that's my attempt to bridge certain different perspectives ... that's different to speaking and not listening.

[ilumairen]

12 minutes ago, rideforever said:

So, that's my attempt to bridge certain different perspectives ... that's different to speaking and not listening.

 

This might serve more purpose in the pitted Trump threads - where the conversation seems to be carrying on with little care of venue. 

 

As an aside, some people find it odd to be spoken/written of in the third person when they are present for what it's worth. 

[rideforever]

13 minutes ago, ilumairen said:

As an aside, some people find it odd to be spoken/written of in the third person when they are present for what it's worth.

 

That's true, sorry, but actually I was responding to another member who had referred to someone else.

[ilumairen]

12 minutes ago, rideforever said:

 

That's true, sorry, but actually I was responding to another member who had referred to someone else.

 

We all have our own decisions to make in our personal interactions. 

 

[Pilgrim]

5 hours ago, Stosh said:

Paryicipants here talk about many things. So there are many threads , why invite people to leave  because some cant mind their own business? Or try to force others to fixate on the dubiously 'spiritual' . 

Is your spiritual aspect divorced from your real life behavior? Or do your attitudes pervade whatever you do?

 Even as the thread is pitted , can you npt see the tolerance exhibited? Can you not see the communities patience and gentleness in the trump thread? 

Hiding or dividing from our differences is a move taken out of an inability to handle ourselves in in the face of distraction or invalidation. 

Dont invite people to leave so as to focus yourself on matters of the heart because you then master nothing in your heart. You need the foil fpr your own position to exist as light and dark define one another. 

Does that answer you where I am coming from? 

So my question was , how is a zafu like a bo staff? 

Oh I see you’re irritated at the possibilities I voiced. Ok got it.

 

Honestly you are making much more of it than I ever intended. When I made the comment it was more of a If not this then that. If not salt then sugar. You went and got too complicated.

 

You might want to look at your attachment and deep investment in forum life, what will you do if the Bums shuts down, how then will you live?

 

Without the internt you are cast adrift. 

 

To me it seems people do exactly as you accuse, perhaps you do also? I do not know your private life.

 

I have blended forum life and internet life many many times over, over 100 times in fact  and had and have real life one on one face to face interactions aiding seekers to receive Kriya Yoga. I have engineered the visas and living accommodations for teachers from India to come to America and give to those wishing to receive.

 

There are also aspects of my private life that are in place squarely due to the existance of the Dao Bums website.

 

For the the record I am grateful to the owner Sean and the administration and staff here for maintaining this site. This site allowed me to discover my greatest gift. 

 

In other words I talk the talk and walk the walk more than you can possibly guess. When you make accusations you do so without sufficient data.

 

As to how the Zafu is like a Bo staff if you cannot keep your everminute zen mind  then what is done on the cushion is meaningless.

[Geof Nanto]

On 07/12/2018 at 2:57 PM, sean said:

FWIW I was missing some context when I responded to this. I conceded that repeated and similar tirades without substance could be considered a kind of unconstructive spam. I didn't realize this was specifically a "Trump Talk" topic already in Off Topic. I also wrote that I tended to give more weight to insults based on how likely I imagined the "target" would 1. ever receive the insult and 2. be hurt by it. In the case of Trump I think both are close to 0% chance. (Maybe especially #2 since Trump in particular appears to lack literally any ordinary human capacity for dignity or shame. Ziing! 🙃) In any case, this topic has been moved to Hun Dun now, yes? Sans "forbidden content" I think it can just be let be without moderation now.

 

@dawei

 

It appears to me that you’ve sought to deceive both the site owner and this forum.

 

(I state this observation openly where it can be dealt with openly.  Overall, and overriding this, I consider you to be an excellent administrator and the overall integrity of this site is very high, as the fact that this conversation is allowed to take place at all testifies.)  
 

 

Edited December 8, 2018 by Yueya

[dawei]

20 minutes ago, Yueya said:

 

@dawei

 

It appears to me that you’ve sought to deceive both the site owner and this forum.

 

(I state this observation openly where it can be dealt with openly.  Overall, and overriding this, I consider you to be an excellent administrator and the overall integrity of this site is very high, as the fact that this conversation is allowed to take place at all testifies.)  
 

 

 

I sent him several excerpts from the Talk Trump thread giving examples of the posts in question.  Maybe it didn't sink in.

[wandelaar]

One's perspective may make a difference in what one reckons to be the problem.

[dawei]

I only take from it that he might of recommended the Pit as he mentions he saw it there now.  We didn't talk about pitting it.  Up till I finally pitted it, I never thought to do that as I still held out some hope the thread could get restored to civil discussions. 

 

But the problem is a board-wide one, this is not about one member or one thread; anywhere this happens as I've described may have some action on some level.   We agreed the the language aspect is not really the issue but how it affected the thread and members which it clearly had. 

 

So to recap, in the case of incessant postings (in this case months on end) that are not constructive, causing more discord than discussion and affecting the thread and members then we agreed that staff could treat that as spam.  I've rarely seen this as it usually doesn't go longer than a few days but it has occurred. In most cases, the member stops or at least does after a warning.   

 

We had given three warnings.  So why didn't staff just take some action ?  We talked a while about what 'rule' is broken and the language aspect was a bit unclear if that is even to be handled or just the idea that one is disrupting the thread.  I decided to reach out to Sean to get his input. 

[windwalker]

1 hour ago, dawei said:

to recap, in the case of incessant postings (in this case months on end) that are not constructive, causing more discord than discussion and affecting the thread and members then we agreed that staff could treat that as spam. 

Interested on a site that most members claim to practice some form of self-cultivation.

 

What they cannot control from the inside they ask for others to controll from the outside.

 

One way of doing it, apparently done.

".

Edited December 8, 2018 by windwalker

[windwalker]

And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for. thee that one of thy members should perish, and. not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."

The outer way, not the inner way, that most claim to practice.

 

Just find it strange that people ask for things outside of themselves to control what they cannot control inside themselves.

 

 

attachment non-attachment.

. Easy to talk about and discuss until it's really put to the test.

 

Civility

 

Easy to display as long as one is in agreement with the other. 

 

Discourse

 

The sharing of information or viewpoints even if one does not agree with them, it can serve as a tool to understand what the disagreement is really about.

 

When it becomes about winning, attachment, in-person conversation usually stops on the internet others step in to take control

 

I've mentioned this before one of the things I enjoyed about the thread was a discourse among those within the thread. 

 

More so because the members on this site practicing internal cultivations,  had a chance to display, test, and showcase their own inner development real time.

 

Found their reactions interesting ,  observing my own reactions to theirs, a good  self testing tool.

Edited December 9, 2018 by windwalker

[Apech]

Not only do we have a 'Talk Trump' thread as a kind of guilty pleasure we also have a thread about moderating the thread.  Oh DaoBums you are spoiling us

Edited December 10, 2018 by Apech

[wandelaar]

@ windwalker

 

There is nothing strange in avoiding situations that (as of yet) one cannot properly deal with. That's only common sense, and  Lao tzu had a lot of advise in the same direction. So was Lao tzu not Taoist or even spiritual? I try to follow Lao tzu (and Chuang tzu who also advised against endless and useless debates), and I regard it as rather silly to be told on a Taoist forum like ours that such a course of action (or rather non-action) isn't real spirituality.

 

Edited December 9, 2018 by wandelaar

[Stosh]

On Saturday, December 08, 2018 at 10:41 AM, Pilgrim said:

Oh I see you’re irritated at the possibilities I voiced. Ok got it.

 

Honestly you are making much more of it than I ever intended. When I made the comment it was more of a If not this then that. If not salt then sugar. You went and got too complicated.

 

You might want to look at your attachment and deep investment in forum life, what will you do if the Bums shuts down, how then will you live?

 

Without the internt you are cast adrift. 

 

To me it seems people do exactly as you accuse, perhaps you do also? I do not know your private life.

 

I have blended forum life and internet life many many times over, over 100 times in fact  and had and have real life one on one face to face interactions aiding seekers to receive Kriya Yoga. I have engineered the visas and living accommodations for teachers from India to come to America and give to those wishing to receive.

 

There are also aspects of my private life that are in place squarely due to the existance of the Dao Bums website.

 

For the the record I am grateful to the owner Sean and the administration and staff here for maintaining this site. This site allowed me to discover my greatest gift. 

 

In other words I talk the talk and walk the walk more than you can possibly guess. When you make accusations you do so without sufficient data.

 

As to how the Zafu is like a Bo staff if you cannot keep your everminute zen mind  then what is done on the cushion is meaningless.

Youre inventing stuff , but without daobums I lose mostly a pastime ,and some contact with some folks I like. Its not my anchor. 

.. and your answer was crafted faulty so as to not get the point that both are tools for cultivating although one is gentle and the other rough, but yeah, if the effect of your Practice doesnt extend beyond the books or teacher you parrot, its nothing. 

 

[Pilgrim]

36 minutes ago, Stosh said:

Youre inventing stuff , but without daobums I lose mostly a pastime ,and some contact with some folks I like. Its not my anchor. 

.. and your answer was crafted faulty so as to not get the point that both are tools for cultivating although one is gentle and the other rough, but yeah, if the effect of your Practice doesnt extend beyond the books or teacher you parrot, its nothing. 

 

Ok 👌 

[wandelaar]

1 minute ago, Stosh said:

(...) but yeah, if the effect of your Practice doesnt extend beyond the books or teacher you parrot, its nothing.

 

This is the level of ego-boosting and pseudo-argumentation one has to deal with when participating in the Trump topics. One's position will be misrepresented beyond recognition by the opposing parties to better score one or two points in the debating contest. Arguments that are unwelcome to your opponents will simply be ignored. And when the temperature rises the attacks will become more and more personal...

 

Participating in such discussions is like eating junk food to test one's ability to survive in unhealthy circumstances. There certainly are ways of cultivation where one systematically pushes the boundary of what one can stand without loosing one's cool. But that is not the way described by Lao tzu and Chuang tzu. Of course one doesn't have to follow the ancient way of Lao tzu and Chuang tzu, but on a Taoist forum one should at least respect it as a way of cultivation.

 

[Stosh]

35 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

 

This is the level of ego-boosting and pseudo-argumentation one has to deal with when participating in the Trump topics. One's position will be misrepresented beyond recognition by the opposing parties to better score one or two points in the debating contest. Arguments that are unwelcome to your opponents will simply be ignored. And when the temperature rises the attacks will become more and more personal...

 

Participating in such discussions is like eating junk food to test one's ability to survive in unhealthy circumstances. There certainly are ways of cultivation where one systematically pushes the boundary of what one can stand without loosing one's cool. But that is not the way described by Lao tzu and Chuang tzu. Of course one doesn't have to follow the ancient way of Lao tzu and Chuang tzu, but on a Taoist forum one should at least respect it as a way of cultivation.

 

Yep  

[Stosh]

Supposedly, Theres also a inverted possibility ! Rare and mysterious , when answers are forthright and genuine , reflecting unvarnished truth.

 

[wandelaar]

5 minutes ago, Stosh said:

Supposedly, Theres also a inverted possibility ! Rare and mysterious , when answers are forthright and genuine , reflecting unvarnished truth.

 

Those are diamonds! But rarely to be found in political debates, that's the worst place to look for truth.

 

Edited December 9, 2018 by wandelaar

[Nungali]

So ... your Trump thread still causing trubs ?  And  people are still posting in it .

 

I still  will have nothing to do with it.   Just watch it slowly eat through this site and knock people off .

 

Like some sort of new drug epidemic.

 

You should lock it  .