Chen Tai Chi : How To Learn

[dwai]

Just now, rideforever said:

 

Hey Dwai.   I am interested in these Jan Diepersloot books.   Perhaps you can say something a bit more.  One is on Taiji, one on Yiquan standing, and one on body mechanics.   But are they practical meaning .... has he extracted the underlying principles and does he have series of well-described exercises to make those principles work ?

The book on YiQuan is all about standing drills. The one on Taiji is about a modified grasp sparrow's tail. According to the books, the  Yiquan guy whose student Jan was (I have to go to the basement to look up the name), mainly practiced Yiquan standing meditations and a simplified taijiquan form. 

Just now, rideforever said:

Or is it more fluffy than that ?
Or is it devoid of real practical instructions, more descriptive.
Basically I like that Mike Stigman video because he had extracted principles from Silk Reeling / Internal Power and given powerful exercises within which to cultivate, and I did it and it worked very well.   So it was actionable.

Theory on its own is not doing it for me right now.
Perhaps you could say a bit more about these books.
Thanks.

Not fluffy imho. But one man's stuff can be another's fluff...

I think the trilogy is rather well written. Albeit, reading and learning from a book is far less effective than actually finding a teacher who can show you "hands on".  

[rideforever]

I also quite like Rou Quan, I post a video, it's the only thing I have got though, no other instruction.   I did buy a video from Shifu Yan Lee on Rou Quan but didn't think much of that.   I suppose I would be concerned that just by copying this youtube video I would not get what I need, but then depending onthe Jan Diepersloot books, perhaps could put what I need in.
The TaiChi combat one (from earlier) maybe is a bit of a mess really although the guy looks strong.

What do you think of this anyway ?
 

 

[rideforever]

2 minutes ago, dwai said:

The one on Taiji is about a modified grasp sparrow's tail.

 

So does the whole book sort of look at this move from various angles to expand on all the Taiji principles ?

Also did you have a look at the 3rd book "Masters of Perception" ?
Thanks !

[dwai]

6 minutes ago, rideforever said:

 

So does the whole book sort of look at this move from various angles to expand on all the Taiji principles ?

Also did you have a look at the 3rd book "Masters of Perception" ?
Thanks !

The third book is very interesting but is abstract imho. It does cover some interesting concepts from what i can remember. I should revisit them again soon.

 

I would say, if you want to focus on taijiquan, get the book "The T'ai Chi Classics" by Master Waysun Liao. It is one of the best books on Taijiquan and you can learn some very powerful neigong methods from it. 

[rideforever]

This is very nice 

 

 

[OldDog]

Chen Xiaowang is known as one of the four Buddha's warrior attendants of the 19th generation along with Chen Zhenglei, Wang Xian and Zhu Tiancai. You can't get any closer to true Chen family taiji. Chen Xiaowang is very accomplished and powerful.

[rideforever]

Detailed technical answers to all my Chen questions are found in Jan Silberstorff's book "Chen".

[Sebastian]

I'll present another perspective on Taichi here, which will be more in line with what RideforEver wanted at the start of the thread, namely performing Taichi without too much technique or focus on alignments.

 

I really don't know much about Taichi, at least not in a formal sense, but the way I was taught by my Master doesn't even include a form. It is more of an approach or a perspective that you can apply to any Taichi form, including Chen Taichi, and alignments were never mentioned. It's based on the understanding that "how you do Taichi" is much more important than "how well you do it" so to speak. We do taichi without the confusion of the mind or the body. We do it without thought, or with very soft thoughts. So instead of using the body or the mind to initiate the movement, we let the intelligence of the movement think us into motion. 

 

How do we do this ? We learn the movement first, to educate our energy. Then we access our deepest consciousness which we refer to as Pure Qi, or the Void. Taichi is getting out of the way, and letting that Pure Qi move us. It's like letting the entire process of creation unfold in you, so you don't have to micro-manage and worry about alignments or "doing it right" while you're doing it. I learned this technique with Master Jim Nance of Spring Forest Qigong and this is seldom taught. If anyone is interested in studying with him you can reach him on his website at GuidingQi.com. Otherwise you can keep practicing a simple form over and over again until it becomes so ingrained in you, that one day you can just get out of the way, and find you move perfectly. Then, you will be moved by a pure form of intelligence. You will have let go of your expert's mind trying to control the movement, and you will move in a completely inhibited way. But you need to will it, you need to surrender completely to Light or the deepest energy guiding you.

 

I noticed you were looking for a short form, I recommend this one, it's quite potent and Eric Risen, the medical intuitive that people keep using in this forum, had found it to be extraordinary in terms of the results he perceived. Enjoy.

 

 

Edited February 20, 2019 by Sebastian

[rideforever]

Actually Jan Silberstorff offers very clear understanding of the energetics involved in each movement, and the purpose and trajectory of practice, particularly emphasising mastering the energetics in Silk Reeling, through a carefully selected sequence of exercises designed to cultivate first the lateral circuits, then the front and back.  Etc...  He also describes all the available forms and their inner content.
He's the first person I've ever heard who understands what he is doing, and I am following him.

 

Simon Blow in the video above I happen to know a bit because he also teaches Dayan that I studied last year, however I ended up learning from a teacher who was Chinese and had dark hair rather than him who is Australian? and has grey hair.

[Sebastian]

58 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Actually Jan Silberstorff offers very clear understanding of the energetics involved in each movement

 

Cool, looks very interesting, thanks for sharing. I'll check it out.

 

58 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Simon Blow in the video above I happen to know a bit because he also teaches Dayan that I studied last year, however I ended up learning from a teacher who was Chinese and had dark hair rather than him who is Australian? and has grey hair.

 

Well actually the form Simon learned is a traditional one from Wudang, at least centuries old. If you ever get tired of the complex Taichi forms, or have only 6 minutes or so to spare in a day, give it a try.  Simon learned it from Grand-Master Zhong-Yun-Long of Wudang, who has a copious amount of hair by the way, that's why he wears a hat 

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2019 by Sebastian

[rideforever]

Well if this guy is teaching, I'm game !

[OldDog]

On 2/19/2019 at 8:12 AM, rideforever said:

Detailed technical answers to all my Chen questions are found in Jan Silberstorff's book "Chen".

 

It's funny. I had not heard of Jan Silberstorff and so went online and checked out his form. As I am watching him, I am thinking ... His form looks a lot like Chen Xiaowang. Then I notice some references on his video regarding CXW and I had to laugh. Apparently CXW has a fairly strong following in Germany. But, in MA it is often possible to tell who taught someone by how they do their forms. 

 

It is interesting to observe the differences between the forms (Laojia Yilu and Erlu) of masters from the same generation, the four Buddha's Warrior Attendants.  CXW's form is very powerful, especially his erlu form. You should go online and check them out. It will add a little bit of perspective to your practice.

 

If Jan is faithfull to CXW's teaching you have probably found a fairly reliable source.

 

Good luck ...and have fun.

 

 

[rideforever]

15 minutes ago, OldDog said:

If Jan is faithfull to CXW's teaching you have probably found a fairly reliable source.

 

You have good eyes.  Jan was privately trained in CXW's own house (he was a penniless student) in China over many years.  Before he arrived at CXW he had won several dozen Taichi tournaments in Europe which he says were meaningless, the winners of those tournaments had empty forms and nobody noticed. 
But later he was inspired to go to China and began again from the beginning in the Chen village with CXW.
I do have several silk reeling and form dvds of CXW which are available freely on youtube - not sure why but it's all there for free.