What is wrong about being judgemental?

[Nungali]

19 hours ago, wandelaar said:

Please post your ideas on being judgemental?

 

Its an important skill .    Pre  judgement  or pre judice , is the problem .

 

Otherwise it becomes a New Age cop out  ; I remember this guy accusing me of 'being judgmental' of him  "Your so judgmental man . "  as if he could negate my opinion of him by just saying that .

 

What .... ?   I am supposed to ignore all the blunders, wrong decisions and fuck ups he made, some that really impacted and  effected others .... and I am just supposed to go along with him and get caught up in the mess he creates and be effected by it .... in order to be  NOT judgmental .

 

HA ! 

[Nungali]

19 hours ago, Aetherous said:

For one, when we judge others, we are automatically placing ourselves artificially up on a pedestal, and others artificially down beneath us. This goes against the Mahayana teaching of equality of self and other.

Maybe I'll say more later.

 

You see judgement as a comparison with one's self  ?  

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, wandelaar said:

 

As I personally see no problem in being judgemental (in regard to serious life issues but not in trivial matters), I take the criticism as also referring to me. And that's OK because than I can possibly learn from it. But I don't recognise myself in what is said here about people who are being judgemental. It's all rather beside the point.

 

Some people hear 'that word' and get all uppity and it triggers a whole lot of other things for them ; comparison with others, a type of inequality, a whole lot of stuff .

 

What i hear in the word is simple [ I have had experiences with the guy I mentioned above ; I witnessed him make several blunders of judgement himself  - numerous times  that effected others and their property.  Why should I NOT learn from  his mistakes and my observations ?  NO , you cant borrow my car , I saw you wreck your own with irresponsibility and unawareness.  No on many levels.

 

What about learning from our experiences, isnt that judgement . I think perhaps we are giving two very different meanings to the word ?

Edited December 8, 2018 by Nungali

[thelerner]

I think save it for when  you need it.  If you're constantly thinking judgemental thoughts, that's a problem, too busy a mind.   When things are very wrong, or very right, judging is a form of common sense. 

[Nungali]

2 hours ago, Kar3n said:

I wonder why it is anyone's business how "spiritual" another is? Surely those passing judgement can see the fallacy of measuring others by their "spiritual" barometer.

 

How "spiritual" is it to put yourself in a position to tell another they're not "spiritual"?

 

YES!   Thats 'the other 'type' of judgement .  Perhaps    prejudice ?    Maybe we need two  different words ?

[Nungali]

2 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

Judgement implies you cannot change your view on something. I don’t like being that attached to a view. Surprising though it may seem - I have been wrong before. 

 

Why ?     I disagree .   I make lots of judgements, constantly ,   and it has nothing to do with changing my view .  Actually some  judgements I make might make me change my view .

 

The complaints seem about certain specific prejudicial judgments , not judgement generally .

[wandelaar]

No longer following this topic.

[thelerner]

6 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

No longer following this topic.

you shoulda phrased in a more judgemental way.

..like I've decided to leave this topic alone.

or

I pronounce this thread over for me.

or

I rule this discussion repetitive and pointless to myself.

or

so long suckers, and thanks for the fish. 

[Aetherous]

25 minutes ago, Nungali said:

You see judgement as a comparison with one's self  ?  

 

Yes, I think I do.

Let's say if you were an alcoholic...you couldn't look down upon someone for drinking too much, thinking they're lower than you in regard to the subject of drinking. You're in the same boat and might even be worse off than they are. So an honest person would be humble in that situation rather than judgmental.

But if you don't drink, or not that much, you're much more easily able to criticize others who do it too much. It's easy to point the finger. Sometimes judgment carries with it this form of "I wouldn't do that", as if the judge is holier than thou.

[liminal_luke]

Opinion-Burnout

 

There`s something about the medium of social forums like this one that encourages us to belittle themselves, and I mean that in the literal sense -- to make ourselves smaller.  You don`t see all of me.  My physical presence, for instance, is entirely absent.  You don`t see the shape of my body, my choice in clothes, the sound of my voice, my mannerisms, Some of my sense of humor comes through.  Some of the way I am with other people comes through.  Mostly what you get though is my opinions.  And, believe me, my opinions are far from my best feature!  

 

The medium of the social forum then encourages -- if not forces -- you to make a judgment about my opinions.  You could choose to like them.  (Yes please.)  Or you might press a button indicating that my opinions make you laugh or feel sad or confused.  It`s very likely that at some point you`ll present an opinion of your own, possibly in opposition to one of mine.  If you do we can fight to the death, or at least until one of us is so forum-sick and disheartened that we up and quit this place altogether.  The one who leaves, loses.  (Or is the loser the one who stays?)

 

What`s wrong with all of this opinionating?  I don`t dare make a judgment.  I`ve learned a lot from this place, over the years.  I feel blessed.  But a social forum is not the sky or a flower or a kiss. I`ll trade you a thousand opinions for a hug.  

 

 

[dawei]

33 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

What`s wrong with all of this opinionating?  I don`t dare make a judgment. 

 

Ah but the question itself sounds like a judgement

 

Its a challenging topic because almost all the moving parts are subjective from the judgement to the target or issue being observed. 

 

Even if one tried to take a soft approach and simply said, "does it help the situation or person, or not?"   Is still subjective.

 

I don't think anyone stops judging till they die... If I say the food is cold that could still be considered a judgement , right ?  

 

My wife seems to have this unspoken rule that she can be judgmental but I can't.   I guess I haven't earned my four gold stars from her yet 

[Nungali]

8 hours ago, Aetherous said:

 

Yes, I think I do.

Let's say if you were an alcoholic...you couldn't look down upon someone for drinking too much, thinking they're lower than you in regard to the subject of drinking. You're in the same boat and might even be worse off than they are. So an honest person would be humble in that situation rather than judgmental.

But if you don't drink, or not that much, you're much more easily able to criticize others who do it too much. It's easy to point the finger. Sometimes judgment carries with it this form of "I wouldn't do that", as if the judge is holier than thou.

 

Exactly what I meant above .  I dont 'judge' any one for being an alcoholic , a junkie, a prostitute,  a priest, sober, single or married .

 

But if I see someone is constantly drunk AND  they drive, and they offer me a lift, I will make a judgement on weather I trust them, if  its safe , etc .  Or even as simple as if I think someone is telling the truth or not , that's a judgement too . Making a judgement on them if they are a 'good or bad; person for telling  THAT lie is different from  judging if they are a liar  -   IMO .

[Fa Xin]

7 hours ago, dawei said:

My wife seems to have this unspoken rule that she can be judgmental but I can't.   I guess I haven't earned my four gold stars from her yet 

 

Judge is better than executioner !

[Lost in Translation]

11 hours ago, rideforever said:

How often do you hear somebody being supportive or encouraging or work with you to find solutions, or help without demanding anything.

 

This is a very good point.

 

Can I borrow $50?

[Lost in Translation]

16 hours ago, wandelaar said:

Postmodernism has turned "being judgemental" into a taboo. And in this way postmodernism has become something of a Thought Police without realising that thereby it has become much more judgemental than the simple souls it judges.

 

Telling someone to "not be judgemental" is a diversionary tactic that people use to silence the other person without addressing the issue. If a person is judgemental and open to discussion then argue the point to prove their judgement wrong. But oftentimes people can't or won't argue the point. I consider this a thought failure in those who unconsciously use this tactic and a moral failure in those who consciously do.

Edited December 9, 2018 by Lost in Translation

[Everything]

2 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

Telling someone to "not be judgemental" is a diversionary tactic that people use to silence the other person without addressing the issue. If a person is judgemental and open to discussion then argue the point to prove their judgement wrong. But oftentimes people can't or won't argue the point. I consider this a thought failure in those who unconsciously use this tactic and a moral failure in those who consciously do.

Ok, so life sux. That is a judgement. Things always go wrong. And reality is stupid. So what can we do about it? Nothing, right? You're stuck here in reality. And when you go outside of reality, things are even worse. 

So people look for problem solvers, who solve 1 problem, and thereby unintentionally create 3 new problems. And you don't wanna do nothing either, yet you have no choice. So nothing it is, non judgement it is. Then you see the real issue is not the reality itself, it is the boredom people feel when they stop taking uninspired action that has never accomplished anything, as it has always been motivated by a judgemental form of thought, which cannot see the solution. People are addicted to thought and taking action. They wanna do something. And the silence is boring to them. But what they never allowed themselves to consider is that there are good things in reality. Many good things. That they have never learned to observe, and thus it becomes like the vision of a boat on the water that passes the eyes of a monkey. It simply does not compute into the mind of the monkey what that thing is. So the monkey literally does not see the boat. It doesn't exist to the monkey. Their mind is not on the same wave length. And it requires allot mentioning of small good things that ARE perceivable (which could seem boring at first) before one can learn to recognize greater good things that are already part of reality as they perceive it. And as they create this habbit that exists beyond the idea of judging or not judging, then they will be the ones who not only live the solutions, they create endless solutions where ever they go. And then they see those who judge, and they see their path to the solution begins with the first step, which is the most moral thing a solution oriented being can possible do for a judgemental person, is to distract the judgemental person from their own judgements. As making judgements is not up to them, but up to God. Just as it is up to God to create the solution. We just TRANSLATE the solution that is already available to us. And it happens through enthusiasm and passion. Enthios means to be filled with God. To be inspired meand to be in spirit. By virtue of our consistent focus on the good things, we fine tune the antenna of our mind, which allows us to feelahead of time and recognize all the greater good that ongoingly then will be perceived. Which are all part of the greater solution, no matter how small they may seem at first. Once you get the hang of it, and practice the perception of what is already working out well, then you have not only a stable platform to work upon, but this accelerates the ability to expand the awareness of improvements. If you cannot even recognize the good things that are already here, you're not gonna recognize the greater good that is also ready to reveal itself. Eternally. 

That is why people always end up in heavenly bliss when they die. Because all judgement ceases, and now the full perception of all the solutions from here to infinitely is now clearly perceivable and tangible to them. And that causes a feeling of tremendous well being. But as physical being, we have practice the mentioning of the good with great dilligence and look for it wherever we go. Otherwise we will just be stuck on the problem forever. 

When you are creating solution after another, by virtue of your blessed inspiration begotten from deliberate intentful and consistent practice of appreciating good after another, you are not living in some other plane of existance. You are living in the same problem filled world as others. But the difference is, you are happy and excited to be alive, and they are not. And that is the point of life in the first place. Because when you consciously think about it. Anything anyone has ever wanted, is because they thought they will feel better when they have it. They do not understand that the physical "thing" is not the source of their good feeling. It is the journey that is what contains all of the joy for them. And when they realise this, they will accomplish allot, but with every accomplishment, is just the beginning of a greater journey ahead. And so then when you realise that there is no end to this journey we call life. There is no end to the joy you will be feeling either! 

Or you can be judgemental, and discover, there is no end to your being grumpy all of the time. And that's it. That's the only choice humans have. Am I gonna judge? Or am I gonna praise. Think about it. What feels better. How do you wanna feel? 

Your greater consciousness is eternally tied to the Source of All Creation, that has infinite intelligence. Just as you are forever tied to your greater consciousness. And that is why you feel emotion. If you feel bad, all that it means is that your greater consciousness has a completely different perspective of whatever you're focused upon. And the allowance of this negative emotion, caused by things such as judgement, is the source of all illness and disease. 

So tell me again, how moral is it to silence a judgemental person? 

[Everything]

4 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

This is a very good point.

 

Can I borrow $50?

There contains many judgements in the idea of needing money. "being without money is bad." 

"living outside is bad" 

So people beg for money, then they enter a refuge where everyone sleeps next to eachother and it stinks of piss. 

Then one suddenly craves to be outside. Next day, the person doesn't judge and goes outside. And it rains. He doesn't judge. And now he takes off his clothes, and cleans his armpits, with the most pure form of water on the entirety of planet earth. Rain drops. And his clothes become wet and soaked by the purity of water, that absorbs all impirities and cleanses them. And the person drains the clothes, by squeezing all the rain water out of it, and the impurity finds it way to the soil, where it will fulfill it's highest purpose and joy. The person wears the now clean clothes, and as day unfolds and the sun rises, he is content and fulfilled by the warmth of the sun, and proud of the night he has lived, as now blessed by the rain, they are clean pure as it is. They have been vitalised by the cool wind at night and they have been blessed by greeting of the morning sun, and their heart is now filled with rejuvinated will to live, in full awareness of the support that has been given unto them And as their clothes dry, and their hair is nice and clean and their beard no longer smells. Now they have their pride back. And it has been directly received from the Source of all the Well Being on the planet. And there is no longer a care for judgements from within or without, as one has experienced the truth of their worthy nature, as boundless as only a king should. Yet he is now a king of the land and pleased as such. And now the person is blessed with freedom unlike any other. For having conquered all of their own judgement, only enthusiasm remains for the road ahead. And now the person truely calls the planet earth his home. His land. The potential for boundless contentment has been achieved. Because he/she decided to cease judgement. And has received freedom in return. This is the equal exchange that is what it is what it is you truely seek, as the most virtuous form of abbundance. 

[ilumairen]

On 12/7/2018 at 10:30 PM, liminal_luke said:

Maybe it`s not an all-or-nothing kind of thing.  I think there`s a middleground where we have judgments but hold them lightly.  We can learn to take our judgments less seriously, giving ourselves and others more and more room to breathe.

 

17 hours ago, dawei said:

Its a challenging topic because almost all the moving parts are subjective from the judgement to the target or issue being observed. 

 

So, I concern myself with my own path, allowing the natural room to breathe that comes from understanding that by and large any judgements regarding others are largely subjective. 

[Pilgrim]

17 hours ago, dawei said:

My wife seems to have this unspoken rule that she can be judgmental but I can't.   I guess I haven't earned my four gold stars from her yet 

Confuse us says:

 

Rule number 1. Wife is always right.

 

Rule number 2. When in doubt remember rule number 1.

 

Rule number 3. Remember  long after you have forgotten whatever it was she has not, and was probably right anyway so remember rule number 1. 

 

If your woman be wise and smart, If she be fair and kind. You should bow.

[ilumairen]

On 12/7/2018 at 8:59 PM, wandelaar said:

 

 

Does that mean that discernment is simply judging well, in which case judgement need not be wrong when done well? 

 

Not really. And having discerning taste is not using the word in the same sense intended with the wisdom of discernment. 

 

And part of the wisdom is actually a 'lack of words' attributed to arising phenomenon, and understanding things are both more and less than the sum of the words we ascribe to them. 

 

[ilumairen]

On 12/7/2018 at 10:10 PM, wandelaar said:

How could somebody who considers being judgemental as wrong have any problem with others who don't see a problem in being judgemental?

 

Being judgemental is limiting, a narrowing of focus, and a holding onto a sliver in time, or a learned belief. 

 

And to call it wrong, is a judgement in itself. 

 

For the most part I don't have an issue with individuals being judgemental - unless that judgement becomes violent towards others. 

 

On 12/7/2018 at 10:10 PM, wandelaar said:

 

Isn't the judgement that being judgemental is wrong itself a form of being judgemental?

 

Of course it is, although there is a difference between deeming something as wrong for oneself and wrong for others. 

 

On 12/7/2018 at 10:10 PM, wandelaar said:

 

It seems to me that as a conscious human being one simply cannot escape from being judgemental. That is: as long as one has conscious likes and dislikes.

 

This is generally how these conversations go. It starts with the idea of judging others and eventually meanders to such choices as grabbing an apple or an orange for a snack. 

[liminal_luke]

in my humble view

judgement is bad (sips coffee)

goes outside to play

 

Edited December 9, 2018 by liminal_luke

[ilumairen]

11 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

in my humble view

judgement is bad (sips coffee)

goes outside to play

 

 

Enjoy, my friend. 

[Lost in Translation]

15 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

in my humble view

judgement is bad (sips coffee)

goes outside to play

 

I think there are many meanings of judgement. I do not think we are all using the same meaning, thus confusion.

 

One can objectively judge a thing for suitability to a given purpose, for example when judging a handsaw for cutting wood.

 

One can subjectively judge a thing for aesthetic pleasure, for example when judging a handsaw for the color of the stained wood.

 

In both cases one is judging the same handsaw but with different criteria. The person concerned solely with function won't understand the person concerned with aesthetics and the person concerned with aesthetics won't understand the person who ignores aesthetics, and thus it begins.

 

In my view judgement is an essential skill that one must develop and exercise often, but when doing so one must understand the distinction between aesthetics and function. I withhold judge of others for their aesthetic choices. I similarly withhold judgement of others for their functional choices in areas that are not my concern. But in areas that are my concern, I unapologetically embrace my judgements for to do otherwise leads to confusion and suffering.

[Pilgrim]

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

in my humble view

judgement is bad (sips coffee)

goes outside to play

 

Hey that’s what I’m doing 😃