Anger as Power

[Starjumper]

1 hour ago, Earl Grey said:

Sure, maybe the more vocal and active members here are not the people you've determined would be your students or purchasing copies of your book, but there are also the silent minority (and oftentimes silent majority) who are reading things from lurking. They aren't even logged in--they're seeing this from Google searches, too. 

 

I only discovered recently that I have a reputation offsite because some people have told me how they heard about me from the forum or finding my name in websearches. 

 

Consider the above because you have a bigger audience than you may believe. 

 

That's some good info to consider, thanks, and putting the little pricks on ignore will assist me with that.

[doc benway]

3 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

 

... keep grasping at your straws Stevie, you're going on my new ignore + restraint list.

Best news I’ve had yet today, although it’s early. Thank you

 

3 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

You wouldn't recognize an enlightened person even if they punched you in the nose.

Does threatening people actually make you feel stronger? It certainly makes you look weak and impotent online. I’ve met a few angry, old martial “artists” who are stuck in a mindset of threats and violence. They don’t know any other way to be and it eats them up. It’s sad to see. It indicates that you are lacking, not powerful. You could recognize it and learn from it, or just continue the dysfunctional pattern of empty threats and inner violence. You do yourself far more harm than you do others, Stevie.

 

3 minutes ago, Starjumper said:

I on the other hand, recognized one each time.

You’ve probably met lots of them, eh?

🤣

 

[doc benway]

11 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

While I appreciate dawei vouching for Starjumper and also know him a little bit to say that Starjumper is actually a decent guy offline generally, as a principle, I do believe dialing back the hostility and violent words is probably a good idea (speaking from personal experience/my own rage in recent history that is easily seen in the past couple months here or in my activity). 

 

Starjumper, I get you're losing interest in this place, but if not for the sake of letting everyone breathe a bit since it makes them uncomfortable, it might also be a good idea to tone down the anger and fighting words at least for marketing your work and hermitage because that can be counterproductive to recruiting students or selling your book. This is me speaking as a friend, not reprimanding you, and looking out for your potential interests. 

 People will read this thread and be flocking to a remote Costa Rican jungle to live with a guy who threatens to kill, stomp, and beat the fuck out of anonymous strangers on the internet.

 

🤣🤣🤣

[Earl Grey]

Just now, steve said:

 People will read this thread and be flocking to a remote Costa Rican jungle to live with a guy who threatens to kill, stomp, and beat the fuck out of anonymous strangers on the internet.

 

🤣🤣🤣

 

Yeah, so it is his interest to reconsider what he is saying, edit it, or take a reconciliatory approach. 

[doc benway]

On 3/7/2020 at 9:07 AM, Earl Grey said:

 

Yeah, so it is his interest to reconsider what he is saying, edit it, or take a reconciliatory approach. 

 

We can all use our interactions here as a way to grow. If we are serious practitioners, that’s what we do. Every conflict or episode of inner reactivity gives us opportunities. I love to see evidence of that from Steve or anyone else.

 

Your recent experience is a great example. It simply takes the courage to look at ourselves clearly and to be a bit vulnerable. It’s not easy, particularly for martial artists who spend so much time  training to be tough.

 

I was in that defensive, reactive place for most of my life. Fortunately, I found there is an alternative that gives me far more flexibility and potential. And paradoxically, it doesn’t take away from the martial potential, rather it enhances. In taijiquan, it is an aspect of the 13th posture, or 5th step - 中定 - zhong ding, or central equilibrium.

Edited March 8, 2020 by steve

[Earl Grey]

15 minutes ago, steve said:

 

We can all use our interactions here as a way to grow. If we are serious practitioners, that’s what we do. Every conflict or episode of inner reactivity gives us opportunities. I love to see evidence of that from Steve or anyone else.

 

Your recent experience is a great example. It simply takes the courage to look at ourselves clearly and to be a bit vulnerable. It’s not easy, particularly for martial artists who spend so much time  training to be tough.

 

I was in that defensive, reactive place for most of my life. Fortunately, I found there is an alternative that gives me far more flexibility and potential. And paradoxically, it doesn’t take away from the martial potential, rather it enhances. In taijiquan, it is an aspect of the 13th posture, or 5th step - 中定; zhōng dìng, or center equilibrium.

 

Even Sunzi says that retreat and withdrawal is not surrender, as it is a viable strategy to reassess the situation and prepare accordingly. 

 

And again, catering to his interests here: the marketing language he wants to use isn't saying, "I know a fantastic Taoist wizard, and he was in Seattle, and he was my teacher", it's instead saying, "I'm a sailor boy on leave, I've seen a lot of shit that could change your life, so you listen to me or you get the fuck outta here!"

 

There might be a demographic that enjoys the marketing language of the latter approach...but I don't know too many people like that honestly.

 

The Steve Gray I know offline is a lot nicer and an interesting guy, and I hope people get to know him more one day, because he would make a lot of friends and increase his market value overnight. 

 

Then again, the same could be said about others I know...myself included....

[Wu Ming Jen]

This whole anger thing is working perfectly. sticks and stones can break my bones but words will never hurt me, that being said every word on this site pisses me off!!

 

I am out of control with anger so lets not ignore or defend a good fight. I already know who losses but it does not make it less fun, I mean MAD!.

[ilumairen]

On 3/6/2020 at 9:32 PM, dawei said:

 

Where do you dream up condone ?  We're all here online...  He's hidden in some god forbidden mountain with no chance of taking any true action on another, other than maybe a papaya...  relax a bit.   

 

So by this reasoning he could be seen as a rather acute picture of what he was ranting against here:

 

On 3/6/2020 at 7:07 PM, Starjumper said:

 

Ah yes, there it is.  Like when you want to kill some little prick but can't because they're hiding behind the silver screen.

 

And steve hit the nail squarely on the head with this:

 

On 3/6/2020 at 8:01 PM, steve said:

 

Of course it’s not about me, it’s about you.

No one else.

Until you see that, you’ll never really understand inner work.

 

 

He's actually railing against himself... 

[doc benway]

1 minute ago, ilumairen said:

He's actually railing against himself... 

 

It's fascinating to see just how much we tend to project of ourselves, imaging it's coming from outside.

Endlessly entertaining, whether I observe myself doing it or others. 

Clearly some do it more obviously than others but when we are sensitive enough we can see just how pervasive it really is.

[CloudHands]

On 07/03/2020 at 3:26 PM, steve said:

 In taijiquan, it is an aspect of the 13th posture, or 5th step - 中定; zhōng dìng, or center equilibrium.

 

A picture would speak more than Chinese characters, to me at least

[doc benway]

2 minutes ago, CloudHands said:

 

A picture would speak more than Chinese characters, to me at least

 

A picture of central equilibrium?

Not sure what you mean by that...

 

[CloudHands]

1 minute ago, steve said:

 

A picture of central equilibrium?

Not sure what you mean by that...

 

 

The 13th posture or 5th step of which one of the tai chi sets ? Haven't you a picture of that rather than a number ?

[ReturnDragon]

4 minutes ago, steve said:

 

A picture of central equilibrium?

Not sure what you mean by that...

 

It means a picture to show aligning yourself on the vertical center line for balance.

[doc benway]

3 minutes ago, CloudHands said:

 

The 13th posture or 5th step of which one of the tai chi sets ? Haven't you a picture of that rather than a number ?

 

Oh, sorry. I should have been more clear.

It doesn't refer to a specific set or even a posture, really.

I was referring to the 13 postures or powers - 8 basic techniques and 5 stepping patterns:

8 postures - peng, lu, ji, an, cai, lie, zhou, kao 

5 steps - chin (advance), tui (retreat), ku (look left), pan (glance right), zhong ding (central equilibrium).

 

Central equilibrium is the inner process of finding and maintaining one's center, one's balance, central axis, etc...

While there are physical aspects one might be able to capture in a photo, I was referring to inner aspects in my earlier post.

One such aspect is being able to find a neutral place in oneself such that we are not disturbed or thrown off balance by emotions like anger, fear, pride, desire for success, and so forth, in our practice.

Any experienced martial artists are no doubt aware of the benefit and importance of finding a calm and imperturbable state of mind when competing or fighting. 

 

[doc benway]

22 minutes ago, ReturnDragon said:

It means a picture to show aligning yourself on the vertical center line for balance.

 

I think that would be a waste of time and does not relate to the point I was making in my post. 

[CloudHands]

ok, 13th postures and 5th steps ! Yes I understand what you mean. I thought you thought a tai chi posture captured your spirit, I was avid to see that.

 

I was betting on two

 

 

But yes holding your center.... anytime

[doc benway]

[ReturnDragon]

2 hours ago, CloudHands said:

 "A picture would speak more than Chinese characters, to me at least "

 

2 hours ago, steve said:

I think that would be a waste of time and does not relate to the point I was making in my post. 

 

On 3/7/2020 at 6:49 AM, Earl Grey said:

 In taijiquan, it is an aspect of the 13th posture, or 5th step - 中定; zhōng dìng, or center equilibrium.

Isn't any posture in Taijiquan has to do with 中定; zhōng dìng, or center equilibrium? I mean every move but just these two.

[doc benway]

26 minutes ago, ReturnDragon said:

Isn't any posture in Taijiquan has to do with 中定; zhōng dìng, or center equilibrium? I mean every move but just these two.

 

Yes, I think it’s reasonable to say that zhong ding is a part of every taijiquan posture.

 

What do you mean by “just these two?”

 

 

[ReturnDragon]

2 minutes ago, steve said:

What do you mean by “just these two?”

13th postures and 5th steps
Aren't we talking about these two all along?

Come on, be more alert.....

[doc benway]

4 hours ago, steve said:

 

Oh, sorry. I should have been more clear.

It doesn't refer to a specific set or even a posture, really.

I was referring to the 13 postures or powers - 8 basic techniques and 5 stepping patterns:

8 postures - peng, lu, ji, an, cai, lie, zhou, kao 

5 steps - chin (advance), tui (retreat), ku (look left), pan (glance right), zhong ding (central equilibrium).

 

Central equilibrium is the inner process of finding and maintaining one's center, one's balance, central axis, etc...

While there are physical aspects one might be able to capture in a photo, I was referring to inner aspects in my earlier post.

One such aspect is being able to find a neutral place in oneself such that we are not disturbed or thrown off balance by emotions like anger, fear, pride, desire for success, and so forth, in our practice.

Any experienced martial artists are no doubt aware of the benefit and importance of finding a calm and imperturbable state of mind when competing or fighting. 

 

 

56 minutes ago, ReturnDragon said:

13th postures and 5th steps
Aren't we talking about these two all along?

Come on, be more alert.....

 

Be more alert? 

Did you notice my response to Cloud Hands?

 

The 13th posture I was referring to is 中定. The 5th step I was referring to is 中定. I was not referring to specific postures from a taiji form, I was talking about  中定, which is often referred to as the last of the 13 postures or 5th of the 5 steps. Does that help?

Edited March 9, 2020 by steve

[paul_willis]

On 09/12/2018 at 8:49 AM, greatsaiyaman said:

Hello. I have read from a few sources that anger is depleting and "negative" and although I agree that anger can be destructive if not properly controlled. I believe that anger can be transmuted into raw spiritual power. I also believe that anger can be just as useful as love. Ppl preach constantly to let go of anger..I personally feel that anger can be used to transform chi to even greater heights.

 

Thoughts?

Anger that fuels a drive to achieve a goal in terms of self improvement can be helpful but I can easily backfire and result in not feeling satisfied with yourself. There's also the bad kind of anger that's fuel with hate and that is destructive. As hate is a place where a man who can't stand sadness goes.

[Straybird]

Like other emotions, anger is a normal, healthy human feeling that is neither good nor bad and in fact, has adaptive properties. Anger helps us handle emergency situations by providing a quick burst of energy and strength, so we can react to threats of danger. Anger pushes us to reach goals by creating motivation through frustration. In relationships, anger encourages us to address outstanding issues, which facilitates intimacy and growth. When not managed properly, anger can cause serious damage.

 

[Jadespear]

...sometimes anger is an easy way to find a reason to do something.  One simply doesn't like what is happening, becomes angry out of the dislike of it, and then acts to change it.  Thats about all that anger can do for anyone in my opinion.  

 

Attempting to "store" or work with one's "anger" is unwise.  Anger doesn't really exist except in one's own fleeting mind and ones fleeting emotions, sometimes in ones memory.  I think people get confused by the similarity that anger has with willpower, intent, and desire.  Willpower, intent, and desire are kinda related because they are rooted in the self.  

 

I attempted to work with anger and negative emotions once, to great harm to myself.  My body began to destroy itself literally...not a good thing.  

 

All that being said, anger isn't something to dismiss away entirely, but to be understood.  It's better to be angry and ready to do something about it, than to acquiesce into a hopeless victim of sorts in life.  It could be said that anger is one of the roots of all the spiritual traditions... I mean do we honestly think people sat around trying to become enlightened and grow because they were so satisfied with their lives?  No, I don't think so.  People probably were a little bit angry with life (dissatisfied), with why things happened a certain way, and wanted to alleviate their experience of that, which led to many new journeys inward and outward.

 

There was a story in "The magus of Java" where a tale of a rogue mo-pai practitioner fueled his training by hatred.  He was successful in learning the techniques regardless of why he wanted to... 

 

Anger is best when understood, embraced for what it can do, and then let go of.  Unwise to try and store, use, or build things with anger as the main force.  

[old3bob]

anger can be dealt with,  but if not dealt with and it turns into blind rage then harm is done to all...not unlike fear that can be dealt with until it turns into blind panic...