Article - "In Search of the True Dao"

[Aetherous]

A good article I just saw today:

 

http://www.chinafile.com/library/nyrb-china-archive/search-of-true-dao?fbclid=IwAR2dGUhHzh2tTHOE169w1rr6flL8OAtLxPbv9IpwisV1mHRLIorgBYf3djw

 

I don't necessarily agree with everything the author says. For instance, he points out that religious Daoism began in the 2nd century CE (long after the political-philosophical Daodejing was written)...but later tries to claim that one can't separate the Daodejing from Daoist religion.

[freeform]

Yeah, I’m not convinced by the article. Admittedly I know little about ‘religious’ Daoism - burning ‘hell money’, hundreds of deities, temples and monastic living etc.

 

However, it is certainly the case that with every spiritual system there’s the Exoteric (outer door) version and the Esoteric (inner door) version. 

 

The general tendency is the outer door tradition gives ‘normal’ people a taste, some hope and a way of connecting to the tradition without going through the hugely difficult and uncomfortable process of inner transformation. It helps to keep order with moral values, generate some money and some legitimacy in the public eye.

 

The esoteric, inner door aspect is always focused primarily on following a practice of inner transformation. Yes there may be some ‘religious’ aspects - shrines, fu, connection to deities etc. But these are secondary to the main aim of the system.

 

This is the case with most religions. For example what we commonly know of as Buddhist meditation techniques are generally just the outer door preparatory techniques.

 

In Burma (Myanmar) - which is a very Buddhist country, I did many retreats... most of them followed the standard vipassana framework and a monastic lifestyle. I kept searching. It took a while, but eventually I found a teacher that taught practices that would be completely unfamiliar to most Buddhist practitioners (but strangely familiar to Daoist practitioners). This included energy work, ingesting herbal and alchemical preparations, transmissions etc.

[Everything]

Dao is interesting. Mysterious. Unpredictable. Like a human. 

So since you can't predict it, you can relax into it. Take it as it comes. Ah... Relaxed. No responsibility. Just take it as it comes. 

And bit by bit, as you receive, you become alike kin to it. And slowly, you become a voice for it. And an example of it. 

And no rush to get there at all. You have zero ability to define any destination or future circumstance. So 100% relaxed. Carefree. Accept it as it comes. Dao is life. And life is simple. You just live it. Do it. Move. Breath. Walk the talk. 

Edited December 15, 2018 by Everything

[Apech]

Good article .... some good quotes:

Quote

It was this state of affairs that Western scholars encountered when they arrived in China. Not only was Daoism weak, but the foreigners’ interlocutors were the Confucian elite who ran China. These educated officials disdained most religions, but were especially hostile to out-of-favor Daoism. They conceded that the Daodejing and the Zhuangzi were beautiful texts, but said the religion was debased superstition.

 

Thus began what surely must count as one of the most inaccurate and misleading notions in the history of intercultural religious understanding: that there is a “Daoist religion” (daojiao, in Chinese) and a “Daoist philosophy” (daojia) that have little to do with each other. The philosophy, it was held, was deep and profound. But the religion was superstitious nonsense, practiced by fortune-telling charlatans who might have some skills in martial arts or geomancy but who possessed no philosophical knowledge. Hence the West came to believe that China’s only indigenous religion was a corrupted version of a once-grand system of belief. Not coincidentally, this was how the West also saw China: as a fallen empire.

 

 

…

 

The Dream Trippers want an imaginary Daoism, seeing it as feminine, ecological, and subversive. It has techniques they can use, but little else. It’s what they experience that matters, or as Palmer and Siegler put it, “subjective experience in one’s own body is the only source of authenticity.” For that, bits of China are useful, especially holy sites, which they believe contain centers of energy that they can tap into—spiritual gas stations that could be located anywhere.

 

…

 

Daoism, the authors speculate, is perfectly suited for this cultural smorgasbord because it offers a complete system of meditation, philosophy, and physical practices for health, healing, martial arts, enhancing the meaning and pleasure of sex, and placing the body in a cosmos. Crucially, these ideas and skills can be learned in discrete packages; a person can take one part and leave the rest. Many other religions, by contrast, have unappealing core ideas or practices; non-Tantric Buddhism eschews sex, for example, while Tantric Buddhism and Hinduism place an emphasis on guru devotion and ritual that is antithetical to many of these individualists.

 

 

[Taoist Texts]

12 minutes ago, Apech said:

Crucially, these ideas and skills can be learned in discrete packages; a person can take one part and leave the rest.

hehehe, this is a good one, cracks me up every time

[voidisyinyang]

On 12/11/2018 at 10:58 AM, Aetherous said:

A good article I just saw today:

 

http://www.chinafile.com/library/nyrb-china-archive/search-of-true-dao?fbclid=IwAR2dGUhHzh2tTHOE169w1rr6flL8OAtLxPbv9IpwisV1mHRLIorgBYf3djw

 

I don't necessarily agree with everything the author says. For instance, he points out that religious Daoism began in the 2nd century CE (long after the political-philosophical Daodejing was written)...but later tries to claim that one can't separate the Daodejing from Daoist religion.

 

wow - great article. Professor David Palmer actually mailed me one of his articles since it wasn't available at my university.

 

Quote

One of the most imaginative new books to come out of the West’s engagement with Daoism is James Miller’s China’s Green Religion. Miller argues persuasively that Daoism can be seen as a kind of counterculture to the dominant Confucianism of the past centuries. This, along with its tradition of engagement with nature—rather than dominance over it—can allow Daoism to serve as a support for a new kind of environmentalism. Instead of being based on the arguments of scientists, lawyers, and economists, respect for the environment can be based on Daoism’s teachings of living in harmony with the environment—a way to move “from a technical policy discourse to popular practice.”

Funny - we don't see much of that on this website! haha.

 

[freeform]

On 15/12/2018 at 12:03 PM, Taoist Texts said:

hehehe, this is a good one, cracks me up every time

 

Your wisdom is always seasoned with the sweet taste of sarcasm! 

 

Could you expand on this??

[Taoist Texts]

59 minutes ago, freeform said:

 

 

Could you expand on this??

Sure. The westerners have a schizophrenic approach to eastern arts: "The chinese are smarter than us because they have the arts that we want to learn; but the Chinese are stupider than us because their arts contain lots of unnecessary bits which we will just chuck out and learn the practical bits". 'We will learn from the Chinese, but we are smarter than them'.

 

Its like buying not the whole car but just the front seat and the steering wheel. E.g the  "practical taichi". You see, the traditional taichi was not practical, it had lots of nonsense, we are smart, we make it practical.

 

Naturally  they end up with a cargo-cult

 

 

[Stosh]

27 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

Sure. The westerners have a schizophrenic approach to eastern arts: "The chinese are smarter than us because they have the arts that we want to learn; but the Chinese are stupider than us because their arts contain lots of unnecessary bits which we will just chuck out and learn the practical bits". 'We will learn from the Chinese, but we are smarter than them'.

 

 

The Arts under examination , are 2300 years old or so and doesn't speak to the intelligence of modern societies, nor is the smarts of modern society the creation or province of most of us. A relatively few individuals are responsible for the majority of advancement. 

Einstein came up with the emc2 thing, not me.. obviously .. nor did Hung lo come up with TTC. 

[thelerner]

On 12/14/2018 at 9:01 AM, freeform said:

In Burma (Myanmar) - which is a very Buddhist country, I did many retreats... ..This included energy work, ingesting herbal and alchemical preparations, transmissions etc.

Unless its secretive or so much apart of the system thats its unuseable to outsiders, could you write a little on herbal preparations? 

 

thanks.

[freeform]

4 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

Sure.

 

Completely agree with you.

 

It’s also the case in Buddhist teachings - Sam Harris managed to ‘wisely’ separate the ‘stupid dogmatic beliefs’ from ‘the rational approach to spirituality’ of Buddhism - or so he thinks. 

 

Unfortunately due to his hubris he thinks that beginner preparatory practices like mindfulness and watching the breath are the peak of eastern spirituality. 

 

But this isn’t limited to the eastern arts... I think there’s this inherent belief that us modern people are obviously far wiser than the ancients... after all look at my shiny iPhone! 

 

Complete lack of humility.

[freeform]

3 hours ago, thelerner said:

Unless its secretive or so much apart of the system thats its unuseable to outsiders, could you write a little on herbal preparations? 

 

thanks.

 

Well the formulations were secret or at least some of them - not that I would’ve understood all the odd ingredients anyway. They’re basically used to clear out the energy system in particular ways. 

 

The alchemical preparations were particularly interesting. There is a tradition of external alchemy within some esoteric Buddhist lineages in Burma.

 

I met one of these alchemists - his preparation was made using precious metals that were purified, prayed over, transmitted into and then fermented with wild honey, special herbs and wild fruits. This was all sealed in a clay pot and then buried and unburied at specific time intervals for 20 years.

 

Sadly this alchemist died recently. He did have an apprentice, but I don’t know if the tradition was fully transmitted to him. I hope so.

[wandelaar]

Too bad that the article ends  with the typical postmodern nonsense that has infected parts of academia:

 

Quote

Of course, one can appreciate the Daodejing without being a Daoist, just as one can admire the Sermon on the Mount without being a Christian. But to say that Christianity has nothing to do with Jesus’ ideas is absurd, just as it is ridiculous to say that Daoism is a burlesque version of a profound philosophy. This is obvious if one goes to a Daoist temple and listens to, say, the morning prayers, or zaoke. They might sound like rapid and meaningless chanting to someone unfamiliar with the language, but in fact they are very clear restatements of the ideas of Laozi that any Chinese person with a high school education can understand.

 

In fact Christianity has very little to do with the words of Jesus Christ as found in the Bible. And so there is nothing wrong with appreciating Jesus Christ without bothering oneself with Christianity as a faith. The same is true as regards Taoism and the works of Lao tzu and Chuang tzu. So the old Sinologists were simply correct in making a distinction between philosophical and religious Taoism. Of course culturally one may find a mixture of both, but in essence they are quite different.

[Everything]

11 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

Sure. The westerners have a schizophrenic approach to eastern arts: "The chinese are smarter than us because they have the arts that we want to learn; but the Chinese are stupider than us because their arts contain lots of unnecessary bits which we will just chuck out and learn the practical bits". 'We will learn from the Chinese, but we are smarter than them'.

 

Its like buying not the whole car but just the front seat and the steering wheel. E.g the  "practical taichi". You see, the traditional taichi was not practical, it had lots of nonsense, we are smart, we make it practical.

 

Naturally  they end up with a cargo-cult

Meanwhile bruce lee ran up against a wall for 20 meters and ignited the relationship of americans and chinese while he was at it. 

And John Lennon married Oko Yono. 

Edited December 19, 2018 by Everything

[Everything]

1 hour ago, wandelaar said:

Too bad that the article ends  with the typical postmodern nonsense that has infected parts of academia:

 

 

In fact Christianity has very little to do with the words of Jesus Christ as found in the Bible. And so there is nothing wrong with appreciating Jesus Christ without bothering oneself with Christianity as a faith. The same is true as regards Taoism and the works of Lao tzu and Chuang tzu. So the old Sinologists were simply correct in making a distinction between philosophical and religious Taoism. Of course culturally one may find a mixture of both, but in essence they are quite different.

Often a messenger is considered a mad man. Untill they are followed, then they see something that is so different from who they themselves have ever been capable of allowing themselves to be. And they resent the messenger for telling them of their true destiny of immense freedom and bliss. Because they are so far far away removed from ever developing the capability of allowing themselves to become that which they are told they can and have the capability of becoming. And so they end up killing the messenger. And they have temporary relief from their rage. But eventually, the people all realise what the messenger actually said, as they repeat his/her words in cursing outrage and mocking mockery. And realise, eventually, more and more, they are cursing only themselves with the knowledge of the gods. 

 

In much the same way, a lonely person feels, when they see two lovers walk hand in hand across the beach. Why them? And not me... They run up to them, and plan in secret to destroy what they have. Only to be discouraged, by their inability to cause any harm or even come close. As every attempt seems to only fire back. And the one person who helps them get back on their feet, to make another attempt, is the very same person who is in love. 

 

Eventually, people become sober. And the conversation to become a god realised human being is thus also much more sober. Good thing right? Doesn't always have to be so dramatic. 

[mrpasserby]

@freeform,

"I met one of these alchemists - his preparation was made using precious metals that were purified, prayed over, transmitted into and then fermented with wild honey, special herbs and wild fruits."

My relatives from Lancashire England used to put a bit of white gold and sometimes honey in their tea pot whenever they made tea (all the time). I just thought that they were a little eccentric, but when I read your post, I thought that it might make sense that the chemicals in tea could bring out whatever aid to the spirit, that the white gold is reported to provide.huh ''

[wandelaar]

Because gold is (almost) incorruptible the magical idea is that one could become incorruptible oneself by ingesting gold.

[Everything]

On 12/19/2018 at 12:25 PM, wandelaar said:

Because gold is (almost) incorruptible the magical idea is that one could become incorruptible oneself by ingesting gold.

Like all tools and techniques, are just a permission slip, of any consciousness using those permission slips to allow themselves to become more of who it is they already are.