Neidan ( all experiences and opinions wanted)

[Taoist Texts]

11 minutes ago, Stosh said:

Dunno

cool.) well, thanks for a great convo.

[Apech]

6 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

cool.) well, thanks for a great convo.

 

If one got to the level of the possibility of physical immortality (as distinct to some kind of spiritual immortality) then would one actually choose it and why?

[Taoist Texts]

1 hour ago, Apech said:

 

If one got to the level of the possibility of physical immortality (as distinct to some kind of spiritual immortality) then would one actually choose it and why?

Not choose. One can only get stuck in it for a while out of necessity, not being yet ready for the spiritual level, progressing towards it, till the mother-ship calls you home.

[Apech]

9 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

Not choose. One can only get stuck in it for a while out of necessity, not being yet ready for the spiritual level, progressing towards it, till the mother-ship calls you home.

 

'for a while' doesn't sound very 'immortal' - but in any case if it is a stepping stone to the ultimate spiritual immortality then it is not the goal after all I presume.

[Taoist Texts]

17 minutes ago, Apech said:

it is not the goal after all

yes. it was never the goal. what happened with the so called stage of the 'earth immortality'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xian_(Taoism)

is that westerners misunderstood it as to be a physical body living on physical earth, while in the original Taoism it meant a spiritual existence (still burdened by some material trappings) on a lower plane of spiritual realms.

[Apech]

3 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

yes. it was never the goal. what happened with the so called stage of the 'earth immortality'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xian_(Taoism)

is that westerners misunderstood it as to be a physical body living on physical earth, while in the original Taoism it meant a spiritual existence (still burdened by some material trappings) on a lower plane of spiritual realms.

 

makes sense - thanks.

[Wu Ming Jen]

When we are in a good mood people may say you're in high spirits today. Attracting higher spirits, when body and mind are in a very healthy and balanced condition we attract higher spirits, energy. low level thoughts and the things that attracts negativity into our lives no longer has any power. 

 

 

Taoist gods are actual people that have lived they are not worshiped like a western god and can lose their rank. Everyone is immortal whether they have a physical form or not.

 

The realization that we are all immortal  gives a perspective of what is truly important in life. This is the life and death solving methods.

 

If someone claims god status that makes everyone a god. To believe being a god makes someone superior that is a major error and harmful to one's development, extreme danger.  We create gods and all gods depend on the Tao to exist.

[Apech]

7 minutes ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

When we are in a good mood people may say you're in high spirits today. Attracting higher spirits, when body and mind are in a very healthy and balanced condition we attract higher spirits, energy. low level thoughts and the things that attracts negativity into our lives no longer has any power. 

 

 

Taoist gods are actual people that have lived they are not worshiped like a western god and can lose their rank. Everyone is immortal whether they have a physical form or not.

 

The realization that we are all immortal  gives a perspective of what is truly important in life. This is the life and death solving methods.

 

If someone claims god status that makes everyone a god. To believe being a god makes someone superior that is a major error and harmful to one's development, extreme danger.  We create gods and all gods depend on the Tao to exist.

 

I think we need to be precise about this.  It is true that we are all composed if you like of spirit which is immortal (i.e. eternal) it is not true that we are inherently immortal spirits in the sense of the result of alchemical work.  If this were true there would be no alchemical work - which is not in itself proof of the point but simply a pointer to the inadequacy of the simplistic view that we are all immortal anyway.

 

Our natural beings are composed of an 'assembly' of entities most notably the hun and po souls which return to heaven and earth respectively at death.  If we rely on nature then there is another risk - which in another system is called 'the second death' which is the dissolution of the heavenly energies back to their root and thus the being dissolves back into eternity - ceasing to have any manifest existence at any level at all.  If the work is complete and the golden foetus is created and developed then the second death is avoided.  There are degrees to which this is true.  Some very accomplished beings may achieve this at a spiritual level but still physically die.  Some achieve such a high level of integration that their physical bodies transform to one degree or another.  And so on.  This is by the way independent of which system is practiced - although some systems may be more 'living' than others.

 

Becoming spiritually immortal is not to become a god, if gods are understood to be the personified aspects of the eternal field of spiritual energy - they are naturally occurring in a sense - whereas the alchemical immortal is something else.

[Wu Ming Jen]

Very nice, Someone that has never heard of the Tao or Neidan are also immortal but may not remember while they are alive in a their temporary body.

 

I do not set limits and have not achieved physical immortality but the sages discus how horrible it would be to live forever in the same body. Being prepared in advance and not separated from heaven while in a body, dissolving  inside and outside separation.

 

Gods or god has endless layers and baggage attached to the term. If you happen to be Zhen Wu or Lao Tzu and countless others we see how the god level is achieved in Chinese culture. Doing great things for all of humanity and leaving behind true treasure, priceless.

 

Chinese Gods have jobs and are an archetype of a healthy civilization, humanity. 

 

Personally I am not interested in any east / west / God talk and comparisons because at a spiritual level it is harmful

Edited December 22, 2018 by Wu Ming Jen

[wandelaar]

Looks like most Bums don't want to talk about what Neidan as a theory and practice actually is, but prefer to reason about what it should be when one's personal perspective were taken as it's foundation. Clearly such a discussion will have very little to do with Neidan in the sense of internal alchemy as it was actually understood.  

[voidisyinyang]

for those seemingly new to the topic of Neidan (and who happen to practice self-censorship) - a good means of counteracting "willful ignorance" is to search the word neidan on this site. Just a hint:  there's been probably a dozen threads on the topic.

[Taoist Texts]

26 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

don't want to talk about what Neidan as a theory and practice actually is,

may be they do, how do we know that they dont

[Mudfoot]

47 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

Looks like most Bums don't want to talk about what Neidan as a theory and practice 

Lets sort this out:

Most Bums don't practice Nei Dan. 

A majority of those that indulge in discussing the subject seems to be self-taught, mostly with translated books. 

Those that claims to be members of a traditional school refuses to speak about specific practices, instead taking abstract. 

Those few that do speak about methods are called frauds or ignorant. 

Leads to interesting discussions... 😁 

[sustainablefarm86]

I'm not familiar with the discussions and I'll seek out the threads but I'd like to ask that you start with the start then, the simplest thing to be done: why don't a legitimate experienced person in this give out the general outline? 

1 qigong?

2 spirit work? magick? sorcery? 

3 hardcore fasting and self spanking?

4 ??????

5 top notch diet

6 other top notch health factors

 

What's the daily routine of a neidanic person?

 

 

When people are too secretive it makes me think they try too hard to protect their crumbs. Just come out and say  

- hello, you do this, that, this one thing, but the sheer effort needed will weed you out, haha, bye"

I am probably wrong, I'm just trying to trigger you 

Edited December 22, 2018 by King Jade

[Taoist Texts]

2 minutes ago, King Jade said:

3 hardcore fasting and self spanking?

not self

[Apech]

26 minutes ago, King Jade said:

I'm not familiar with the discussions and I'll seek out the threads but I'd like to ask that you start with the start then, the simplest thing to be done: why don't a legitimate experienced person in this give out the general outline? 

1 qigong?

2 spirit work? magick? sorcery? 

3 hardcore fasting and self spanking?

4 ??????

5 top notch diet

6 other top notch health factors

 

What's the daily routine of a neidanic person?

 

 

When people are too secretive it makes me think they try too hard to protect their crumbs. Just come out and say  

- hello, you do this, that, this one thing, but the sheer effort needed will weed you out, haha, bye"

I am probably wrong, I'm just trying to trigger you 

 

 

It depends on which school of self spanking you belong to. 

[freeform]

There is a lot of delusion in the internal arts. Very few people can actually do real Qi gong (beyond stress relief and health for the frail and elderly) - fewer still can do Nei gong properly... and even fewer can meditate (in the Daoist sense)... and these are all preparatory practices to start Nei Dan. How many people do you think manage to get something going in Nei Dan!?

 

Very very few.

 

The ones that have had some success will demonstrate ‘abilities’ that come as byproducts - whether it’s being able to change weather patterns, affect physical objects at a distance, project various types of Qi, create intense spiritual experiences in students and other even less believable things.

 

Unless someone demonstrates some such ability (it’s built in to most lineages as a method of verification of progress), then there’s no point in discussing Nei Dan beyond the general.

[Wu Ming Jen]

To revel the secrets entrusted personally by a master is forbidden. Life destiny is very important to get in the way or misdirect someones life by not knowing them in person is damaging

 

The internet is not the platform for reveling methods except in general terms Transmission is from master to disciple. 

Here is s a piece of vagueness on the verification's.

 

The turbid body revives continuously into a state of beauty, elation and infiniteness.
This happens when one really calms down and is not feeling one’s breathing anymore.
It is utterly and extremely comfortable,
too comfortable, deadly comfortable.
Only the duck knows upon drinking water whether it is warm or cold.
Words can just not do it justice.”

 

When one’s Essence is abundant,
one has no thought of lewdness.
When one’s Qi is sufficient, 
one knows no hunger.
When one’s spirit is complete, 
one knows no fatigue.”

[wandelaar]

For a general overview see:  http://www.goldenelixir.com/files/The_Way_of_the_Golden_Elixir.pdf

 

 

[sustainablefarm86]

Well okay, to be honest there are so many other things to do that are out in the open that there is no business arguing about this "neidan" word  

 

Edited December 23, 2018 by King Jade
:)

[wandelaar]

Nevertheless - the dude did talk...

[mla7]

4 hours ago, freeform said:

There is a lot of delusion in the internal arts. Very few people can actually do real Qi gong (beyond stress relief and health for the frail and elderly) - fewer still can do Nei gong properly... and even fewer can meditate (in the Daoist sense)... and these are all preparatory practices to start Nei Dan. How many people do you think manage to get something going in Nei Dan!?

 

Very very few.

 

The ones that have had some success will demonstrate ‘abilities’ that come as byproducts - whether it’s being able to change weather patterns, affect physical objects at a distance, project various types of Qi, create intense spiritual experiences in students and other even less believable things.

 

Unless someone demonstrates some such ability (it’s built in to most lineages as a method of verification of progress), then there’s no point in discussing Nei Dan beyond the general.

Hello,

 

Regarding the post quoted above: can you or your neidan teacher do any of the things mentioned to an significant degree?  And if so would you mind sharing a bit about who they are and what they practice?  

 

Thanks

[Wu Ming Jen]

3 hours ago, wandelaar said:

For a general overview see:  http://www.goldenelixir.com/files/The_Way_of_the_Golden_Elixir.pdf

 

 

That is one of the three primes. 

Edited December 23, 2018 by Wu Ming Jen

[voidisyinyang]

On 12/20/2018 at 1:37 PM, Miffymog said:

 

I've got to admit, even though 95% of the pages were blanked out, that was very interesting to look through ...

 

 

yes apparently Glenn Morris trained in that lineage - 1985 correspondence course! He is of "Santiago" fame who used to post here.

http://www.chinamantis.com/tien-tao-qigong.htm

 

Here is that same course - being featured brand new.

 

https://www.scribd.com/document/130915067/Chinese-National-Chi-Kung-Institute-QiGong-Lessons

better reading copy here

 

Yes as I read this "clear" copy - there are whole sections "lifted" from the book Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality.

Edited December 23, 2018 by voidisyinyang

[Taoist Texts]

7 hours ago, mla7 said:

affect physical objects at a distance, project various types of Qi, create intense spiritual experiences in students

This is Neidan!