Life after death

[coolblue]

Hi, what is the Taoist belief of what will happen after death? Is it karma and reincarnation like other eastern faiths?

[MASTERforge]

Realisation that there is no death just change?

 

What is it that dies?

 

If an apple falls from the tree and rots does the tree die?

Trees apple, earth peoples.

 

All is not one?

[doc benway]

Life and Death are inseparable - two sides of a coin. When death is done, life is there... when life is done, death is there... there is always life and death. I don't know if that's Daoist, I'm a not-really-anything'ist.

 

 

Trees apple, earth peoples.

 

One of my favorite metaphors...

Edited February 10, 2008 by xuesheng

[MASTERforge]

Well said Steve

[Gerard]

Hi, what is the Taoist belief of what will happen after death? Is it karma and reincarnation like other eastern faiths?

 

Buddhist belief is that there is always change and as such life is a continuum of cyclic changes according to karma. Very similar to Taoism.

[coolblue]

Hey guys,

 

Looks like Taoist is very Buddhist like but just read somewhere that the goal of a Taoist is to gain immortality. How is this possible?? Is it immortality in the sense of Enlightenment/Nirvana or an actual immortal physical human being?

[MASTERforge]

By the realisation that there is no death, just change. With this realisation you are 'immortal'. There is nothing that dies when you see it is all from the same dao. If a leaf falls from the tree and rots, does the tree die?

 

People get a little confused with that one and go off and study all sorts of weird and wonderful practices in the hope of living forever. I don't want to live forever. It would be very boring as human form is quite limiting. Two arms, two legs, mouth etc. Imagine that for eternity.

 

Didn't the first emperor of China die because he was looking for immortality? He was drinking mercury that sent him bonkers and eventually killed him.

 

To seek immortality will only cause you pain and suffering. Its like swimming against the tide. All that struggle for nothing. Realise you will die. Then ask what is 'you'? And what is it that actually dies? What are you doing here and why? If you can ask this and get an answer then hopefully you can help others in this world too.

 

It is much better than chasing your own tail.

 

Taoist, Buddhist, Christian, Moslem, at the very heart they are all the same. Don't confuse them as different. The prophets were sages no different from lao tsu and boddhidarma. Just their teachings were misunderstood.

[Gerard]

Yes, very true what you said. But what differentiates Buddhism from the rest is that in the former there is not such thing as an immortal soul. Everything is subjected to change and that includes spiritual energy.

 

We store imprints of previous lives especially when it was rich spiritually and we will keep growing and moving on until our spirits are ready to break the law of karma. That's what the Taoists refer to as immortality. Buddhism calls it Nirvana.

 

Physical immortality is a hindrance.

[xenolith]

I'm glad that this question has been posed.

 

IMO, every human being should read The Tibetan Book of the Dead by W.Y. Evans-Wentz. Were it only that every human being knew of its existence...alas. For those that do, the wise will immediately make it a high priority to read it at the earliest opportunity. Again, IMO.

 

Much subconscious and intuitive knowledge is articulated therein. Including the answer to the posed question.

[SFJane]

I'm glad that this question has been posed.

 

IMO, every human being should read The Tibetan Book of the Dead by W.Y. Evans-Wentz. Were it only that every human being knew of its existence...alas. For those that do, the wise will immediately make it a high priority to read it at the earliest opportunity. Again, IMO.

 

Much subconscious and intuitive knowledge is articulated therein. Including the answer to the posed question.

 

 

I read that book to understand what happened to me when I had my own encounter with the other side. It was very useful and I too recommend this book to anyone.

[joeblast]

I've picked it up a few times in the bookstore, but never bought it I already have too many books open! I'll get it eventually though...it does look very intriguing.

[Gerard]

I've picked it up a few times in the bookstore, but never bought it I already have too many books open! I'll get it eventually though...it does look very intriguing.

 

 

No need to buy anything. As anything truly spiritual free for everyone:

 

http://www.summum.us/mummification/tbotd/

 

 

Enjoy.

[Mal]

[innerspace_cadet]

As there are many varieties of Taoism, there are many Taoist views about death, and what happens to a person after he dies. Some Taoists believe in literal immortality, while others gain "immortality" by overcoming the fear of death.

 

Intertwined with religious Taoism are a lot of Chinese folk beliefs with numerous heavens and hells, but for a Westerner, clinging to these beliefs is a dead end, and the pun is intended.

[Gerard]

[Mal]

(not focusing on the "dog" part)

 

Actually can't I transfer merit for 40 days? I think that one is a Buddhist practice.

[Gerard]

(not focusing on the "dog" part)

 

Actually can't I transfer merit for 40 days? I think that one is a Buddhist practice.

 

 

Yes Tibetan. But personally I don't think one can change someone else's karma. It's a universal act of justice and balance. How can an individual interfere with something like that?

 

Regards.

[Yoda]

Even if my life-after-death theory is 100% spot on, I still don't know much.

 

The people who have had near death experiences whether through literally dying or just spiritually dying definitely have a leg up on the situation. I've read that they are also calmer in general about this life and have distinctive brain wave patterns as well as being more accepting of death.

 

Tune into a person or an animal who has croaked and you'll find a very cheerful vibe. Even from a young age, I've found funerals to be extremely funny where people assume that death is a bad thing but the actual dead guy's vibe is quite high and jolly.

[MASTERforge]

It is certainly more respectful to celebrate their life than morn their death.

 

I have always found that selfish. We morn because they are gone and we cant see them. You see us crying because our self interest cannot be fulfilled. We can't have more time with them.

 

If we celebrated their life. We would celebrate their achievements and contributions to the world. A celebration of their life not a morning of our loss.

 

I have always found mourning to be a selfish act. 'I didn't do this, or say that' borne out of our guilt for the mistreatment we served whilst they were alive. Speaking to people after funerals it is normally one great act of contrition and self interest that they mourn.

 

For me death is as natural as taking a shit or being born. Yes I feel sorrow when a loved one dies but I know that to hold on will cause great pain. So I let go and celebrate and remember the joy of the time we spent together. Thankful for those precious moments. Because I know too that I will eventually die and I hope people celebrate my life and remember me fondly rather than mourn.

[exorcist_1699]

Taoist idea about life and death is quite different from other religions. Without exception, all other religions believe in life after death, ie , some kind of spiritual eternity ; Taoist masters also believe in spiritual eternity, but there is one crucial difference : apart from it , they also believe in physical, earthly eternity .

 

How ? The secret of it is : qi .They know how to initiate and manipulate it .

[Mal]

[xenolith]

MASTERforge, I'm very positively impressed with your recent contributions to the Forum. Thank you. Perhaps I've not been paying attention. I certainly look forward to your further contributions.

[Wayfarer64]

Yes Tibetan. But personally I don't think one can change someone else's karma. It's a universal act of justice and balance. How can an individual interfere with something like that?

 

Regards.

 

I have recently gone through one of the more shocking events in my life...

 

A friend of mine tried to kill himself with a large butcher-knife to the chest last Tuesday morning.

 

I was outside when he came to the door and said "I want to die"...to me and a neighbor -who I was happily talking with about the super-bowl at the time...with the knife in his chest already.

 

I told him not to move and leapt to stop him from pulling out the knife. I had to yell at the neighbor a few times to get him off his knees and call 911

 

Of course when a cop showed up he went for his gun 'cause there was a guy with a knife in his chest being restrained by another guy-(me)... I yelled at thim to get the medical unit and then we picked up my friend wrapped him in gauze and got him in the ambulance...

 

The neighbor gave me a beer to chug and the cops told me I had saved his life....

I feel as if I was placed near him for that "catch" to keep him alive...Did I interfere with his kharma? I acted as I thought best for him... He is alive and in hospital for treatment that will eventually be mostly psychological...

 

I sometimes think of him as someone who's monkey mind rules them mercilessly...but he has moments of real joy yet to come...

 

I did wonder for a moment if that is what he wanted ... he did try to kill himself and I stopped him from completing the act. I did it with little thought but to save his life, without any thought that that would be a bad idea...

[林愛偉]

Yes Tibetan. But personally I don't think one can change someone else's karma. It's a universal act of justice and balance. How can an individual interfere with something like that?

 

Regards.

 

 

One can influence another's Karma to a degree, yet that outcome is dependent upon the conditions of the"receiver's mind and the causes within it. For example, if one has the causes to die, and yet they come to you, they also had the causes to be "saved".

 

We can't change the whole mind of the being, but can influence it. Because the being would hear, see us, speak with us, the seeds of the causes we are influencing already are part of their mind. Now it is how much is put into the cultivating of those causes to realize the fruit of it.

 

If we all couldn't influence each other's karma, then we would have no thoughts about each other at all, meaning we would not feel frustrated by someone, loving towards another, anger towards another, etc. There would be no afflictions in the mind of self, others, ego.

 

Peace and Blessings,

Lin

[Ian]

Yes Tibetan. But personally I don't think one can change someone else's karma. It's a universal act of justice and balance. How can an individual interfere with something like that?

 

Regards.

 

There were examples in The Magus of Strovolos of Daskalos taking on other people's stuff. Literally, like he'd get the diseased leg. It is possible. But it was no picnic.

 

But I think for ordinary folks like us, you can't change much about other people's karma unless you're willing to share it by getting that involved with them.