How can I tell if I'm doing Yang Jwing-Ming's Body Breathing Correctly?

[TigerJin]

He doesn't give very much of a description at all of it in any of his books. Just that I'm breathing in and out with my entire body and deeply enough that the qi is reaching the marrow and internal organs. It sounds like something I should be able to feel, but I don't. I'm quite adept at leading my qi to whereever I want, but doing everything at once I can't tell if I am or not.

The exercise just feels like a standard meditation. Most I get is a vague feeling of growing and shrinking or something moving in and out of my entire body. Not sure which is the right feeling or if I should be feeling something like that the whole time.

 

Anyone got guidance? Or more specific instructions?

Edited December 18, 2018 by TigerJin

[Michael Sternbach]

Let's break your question, as presented in the header, apart:

 

How can I tell if I'm Yang Jwing-Ming's Body Breathing Correctly?

 

This obviously has two parts:

 

For this to be the case, first of all, you would have to be Yang Jwing-Ming's body, which pretty much presupposes that you are Yang Jwing-Ming. This is something I feel you should know, though. - However, if you are him suffering from amnesia, be free to post a picture of yourself, many people here know what he looks like and can certainly help you clarify if you are him or not.

 

Now once this has been determined, we can proceed to consider the second part of your question: If your (i.e. Yang Jwing-Ming's) body is breathing correctly. Which however, being Master Yang, you should be able to tell too.

 

But I am sure I or somebody else here can help you clarify as well, if need be.

 

 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Michael Sternbach

[rideforever]

You can saw a piece of wood.  You can control your car.   You can push doors open.

 

If you try this with your breathing you will destroy yourself.

You are your breathing, because you are the vital force.

Instead of sawing yourself controlling yourself and pushing yourself, so that you can be breathing dictator, why not just allow it to be what it is.  Breathing knows what it is doing, it does not need your "help".  It would like you not to "help" anymore.   It wants you to let it be what it already is.   Maybe if you care about who you are, and rest in your belly, maybe if you take interest in how breathing is, maybe if you relax, maybe if you no longer control, but you are inside the breathing, you slide into the bath, quiet, relaxed.

 

[TigerJin]

14 hours ago, Michael Sternbach said:

Let's break your question, as presented in the header, apart:

 

How can I tell if I'm Yang Jwing-Ming's Body Breathing Correctly?

 

This obviously has two parts:

 

For this to be the case, first of all, you would have to be Yang Jwing-Ming's body, which pretty much presupposes that you are Yang Jwing-Ming. This is something I feel you should know, though. - However, if you are him suffering from amnesia, be free to post a picture of yourself, many people here know what he looks like and can certainly help you clarify if you are him or not.

 

Now once this has been determined, we can proceed to consider the second part of your question: If your (i.e. Yang Jwing-Ming's) body is breathing correctly. Which however, being Master Yang, you should be able to tell too.

 

But I am sure I or somebody else here can help you clarify as well, if need be.

 

 

Yeeeeeeaaaaahhhhhh. Sorry. I missed a verb. I corrected it. The title is "How can I tell if I'm DOING Yang Jwing-Ming's Body Breathing Correctly.

[Miffymog]

 

23 hours ago, rideforever said:

You can saw a piece of wood.  You can control your car.   You can push doors open.

 

If you try this with your breathing you will destroy yourself.

You are your breathing, because you are the vital force.

Instead of sawing yourself controlling yourself and pushing yourself, so that you can be breathing dictator, why not just allow it to be what it is.  Breathing knows what it is doing, it does not need your "help".  It would like you not to "help" anymore.   It wants you to let it be what it already is.   Maybe if you care about who you are, and rest in your belly, maybe if you take interest in how breathing is, maybe if you relax, maybe if you no longer control, but you are inside the breathing, you slide into the bath, quiet, relaxed.

 

 

Just to say, rideforever often suggests this attitude towards breathing and I completely and utterly agree with it.

 

However, for me, this approach is easiest to take when there is another larger aim or activity in the practice. Whether that is a physical or mental activity, focusing on that and then allowing the breath to be natural is really really good.

 

When I have had a practice that focuses solely on the breath, just observing it, I found the breath by itself would slow down a huge amount which tended towards the 'turtle breath' that is often described as a daoist technique.

 

But I would always find it difficult to sustain a practice that was solely based on the breath for a long period of time. After some time, I would find myself looking for something else to do, and then the breath would just return to it's natural breath.

 

However, the time spent 'learning' to relax into the breath is beneficial for all other things though, so some work on it can only be a good thing.

 

 

 

 

 

[Sebastian]

Personally I do it like this. I start by concentrating my mind inside my skin. Then I make a prayer to the Light or the Divine. "Light, at this Moment, I would like to breathe through my skin, the energy of You". Then you call onto your Master or higher power and imagine them by your side for the length of your meditation. After your prayer, you relax your intent, and focus on your sensations. You might feel sensations at the surface of your skin, below the skin, but all you do is follow along the path of sensations with the Divine leading the way. Because you've made your statement or request clear upfront, you just trust it to unfold. Always imagine Light with you, in front of you, or looking at you while you're doing this, so you're not stuck with being a performer or doing it on your own power.  Try it out and experiment, it's fun and sort of magical. You can breathe in different qualities of energy too: Light, Qi, air, electricity and see how you react for each.

 

In other words, first be willing to let the Divine breathe you, and then tell the Divine how you would like to be breathed. It's always listening to you. Then trust it. You can ask to be breathed the YJM way, or ask to be breathed an optimal way for you.  I learned this method from Master Jim Nance of Spring Forest Qigong. I enjoy it and recommend it.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Sebastian

[rideforever]

4 hours ago, Miffymog said:

But I would always find it difficult to sustain a practice that was solely based on the breath for a long period of time. After some time, I would find myself looking for something else to do, and then the breath would just return to it's natural breath.

 

Observation is control.  I am sure there are many people out there who have made a practice of observing their breathing, or a spot on the wall, or their nose, or their big toe.   And after doing this for an hour, they will congratulate themselves and walk off smiling.  Truly quite a strange species !!!

 

Why are you observing ?   Does the breath need you to observe it ?  Is that what it's been waiting for all this time ?
Just think how a cat looks like, when it breathes you can really see on the side of the side of the body, it's like an animal, rib cage free, completely uninhibited, restful, natural, let go surrendered resting, and .... the cat is one with the breathing, he is the breathing.  He is the breathing.   Also good to do it low down in the belly which is where the breathing originates as the vital force enters the Dantien from below.

 

Then the cat walks forward, and he is the breathing.  Graceful, natural, powerful, integrated, he is what he is, no question.   Just compare that to "Observing the Breathing" ... what knuckleheads people are.   Next practice to awaken you is banging forehead against tombstone, whilst observing the pain.   Also congratulate yourself afterwards for job well done !!

 

Divine prayers and imaginations .... well maybe at the beginning, afterwards crease all imagination, you don't need any more imagination in an imaginary world .... the practice is about returning to reality.

 

Seems many cats not breathing too well due to contact with the human progress-by-destruction-and-insincerity  but maybe this cat is okay :

 

 

Edited December 18, 2018 by rideforever

[Zen Pig]

6 hours ago, Miffymog said:

But I would always find it difficult to sustain a practice that was solely based on the breath for a long period of time. After some time, I would find myself looking for something else to do, and then the breath would just return to it's natural breath.

Once again, from my experience, (which is all i try to speak from), focus on breath is kind of a way to start quieting the mind, the body also becomes more relaxed, and one sees energy start to move. But after a time, breath is just an inseparable part of the whole.  One starts to be "aware" of everything, so to speak. Both breath, the dog barking, the wind blowing, everything, nothing is separate.  It seems to be something we cannot force.  in our modern society, we want things Now. Meditation is something that is not instant gratification, for me, it took years, and is still taking years. . 

[dawei]

As much as I like to promote his books and have followed much of what he wrote ... at least years ago, there are times I'm not sure he is really telling anything different then he wrote 30 years ago.  I don't see him as sharing a progressive system, and as a result, some of his books seem incomplete or not describing clearly enough a step by step of what to do.   

 

here is a key I found:  Separation, distinction, and labels are always going to hold one back.  We can read and practice all we want but practice should be the act of forgetting what you were told (or read) to do.     Here is an example to illustrate my point:

 

Consider ripples in water when a rock is dropped in.  there is the appearance of separate ripples but they are the same, singular wave.

 

But when we start to breath, even if we say focus on breath, you are in a ripple effect; realize the next ripple.  Change focus on your breath to the air around you is your breath; then focus on the earth around the air; then the universe around the earth.  Continue to remove every separation possible.

 

You may think this is a lot of thinking but that misses the point.  Each next ripple is to drop the separation the mind creates; you forget the previous ripple.  If you cannot forget the previous ripple, then it is all just ripples in time... 

[sl23]

I remember a friend once telling me wrt occult practices, the rituals, the paraphernalia, the systems are all subordinate. They are there for no other reason than to help your mind focus. The real power of the occult lies in the power of your mind.

 

I see all practices the same, they are a means to an end, a stepping stone. I've read several books that mentioned the very same thing about meditation. Focus on one thing, once you are proficient in that, remove all objects from your mind, this is stillness. It's not something to be forced, it happens gradually, as with any skill it takes time to nurture it. It's just that the results are very subtle.