Worrying : Intelligence : Excitement

[rideforever]

I noticed today that I began worrying about something that I had no real need to worry about.   And I wonder if society is programming itself to do that - is the technology that we are making actually needed, or only needed to fix things we worry about.   And why do we worry ?   Isn't it a waste of time. ?

 

Another thing is that we are meant to live and going forwards have experiences that can heal things .... but we don't go forward then we are left with no material to grow from, and so we can dig into the past and worry which is a lower way of having material to work on.

 

So I think it is worth the LoA idea to walk into new situations that seem "exciting" as a means to live properly.   It's worthy trying.  Perhaps that is what happiness is ?

Fixing problems involves making problems, worrying about problems and maybe this is creating the 10,000 things.   Be happy instead ?

 

It had also dawned on me that those therapies that are visible are the ones that don't work, because the one's that do work run out of customers, because the customers are fixed and go home.   The ones that fail to fix things keep going on and on and on, and are a visible.

 

So ... what about meditation then ?   Or healing childhood wounds ?   Were does that fit into the excitement equation ?

 

 

Edited December 28, 2018 by rideforever

[Fa Xin]

Every moment can be new and exciting 😊 

[manitou]

Rideforever said:  "Fixing problems involves making problems, worrying about problems and maybe this is creating the 10,000 things.  Be happy instead?

 

I think you're on to something there.  I would only tweak the first part that says 'fixing problems involves making problems'.  The Sage nips all problems in the bud, as he is a seer, knows how things work, and prevents problems from manifesting.  This, too, we can do, if ego is diminished sufficiently.

 

The simple and trite explanation, as I see it, is 'everything is as it should be'.  To get a little more intellectual, I see it as Time not being linear, it's all happening Now, it's actually already happened and we're just coming into alignment with it, and we are actually all one Entity who is self-realizing through our sensory perception.  If that's the case, what's to worry about?  I Am translates into We Are.

 

 

[freeform]

Have you wondered why in Daoism joy and excitement are considered negative?

[rideforever]

20 minutes ago, freeform said:

Have you wondered why in Daoism joy and excitement are considered negative?

 

“True, there are sometimes

Tough joints.  I feel them coming,

I slow down, I watch closely,

Hold back, barely move the blade,

And whump! the part falls away

Landing like a clod of earth.

“Then I withdraw the blade,

I stand still

And let the joy of the work

Sink in.

I clean the blade

And put it away.”

 

As I have tried to understand what is meant by acting on excitement, first you have to remove all the coarse feelings; and then choose which feeling is most true-real-exciting.   It is quite unfamiliar to consider as I am used to automatically engaging with things that make me feel not very happy, as I have been taught, and as most people seem to be doing.   The word excitement is used to try and help people understand what to look for, but ultimately it is not meant in a coarse way.

[freeform]

13 minutes ago, rideforever said:

The word excitement is used to try and help people understand what to look for, but ultimately it is not meant in a coarse way.

 

Well it’s the same for happiness, joy and excitement - it’s said to be bad for the purposes of cultivation. Have you considered why? 

 

I mean you you don’t have to agree - most of the world certainly doesn’t! The human race loves feelings and emotions... even some of our best art forms are inspired by feelings... But the Daoists reckon they’re no good. Why?

[rideforever]

7 minutes ago, freeform said:

Have you considered why? 

 

We are at the mercy of what we can feel to be good.   If we cannot feel something to be good then how could we choose it ?  For us to say something is good even Tao we must feel it as good.

You talk of the crowd and their feelings, but I am not, the crowd when it feels excited is actually feeling pain, but they are not aware of it.  They feel shock and terror and deep suffering, but they imagine they feel excitement and so their nightmare continues.  I have spent decades in that nightmare and nobody could have convinced me otherwise.

 

The invocation that is suggested ... its significance is to help you understand what you are feeling, so you consider if you enjoy what you are doing.   Do you actually enjoy it ?   What is it that you would prefer to do ?   It seems so obvious.   But when you begin to look inside perhaps you see that "you do what you hate"  (Jesus).   So, then what should I do ?   How can I choose ?
Try to feel what is around you, what are you "excited" (meaning naturally easily uplifted) by.

 

The Tao is a deeper feeling, a truer realer feeling.  Spiritual feelings are deep currents, deep water.
But then there is another question ... if humans are actually blind to their real feelings ... perhaps it is possible to live as a human holy life ... just by recognizing what you actually like; perhaps there is not so much need to go deep under the ocean ?

[manitou]

"....everyone else appears as merrymaking, and I alone am dull and muddled..."  (or something like that, I don't have the DDJ in front of me.)

[freeform]

Rideforever - to be honest I don’t really understand what you’re saying.

 

You seem to be saying:

1- everything is a feeling, including ‘the Tao’ so Daoism must’ve got it wrong

 

2 - the crowd doesn’t understand what they’re feeling they’re mistaking terror and suffering for excitement. But you’re accessing some deeper truer feeling of excitement?

 

But I could be wrong.

 

Even if I’ve sort of got it, I’m still confused 

 

You didn’t seem to answer the question - why Daoism sees feelings and emotions as not only irrelevant, but detrimental at a certain stage.

[rideforever]

The feelings of the crowd are fake and false, underneath the drinking and debauchery is happiness ?  No.  So Daotism points to the truth of the situation, the truth is that in ignorance and poor teaching they do not know themselves.   Daoism points to knowing the truth of yourself inside and also of the outside.   So it does not necessarily dissuade you any emotions ultimately, as long as they are real - but for the crowd knowing a true emotion is a long way away.  Daoism like the story above of the Cutting Up an Ox, shows clearly that the true feelings are true and good, you are in harmony, but it is not "exciting", it is true.   

Daoism represents deep current at the bottom of the ocean, for those who wish to live at the bottom of the oceans depths in the fertile valley at the base of all existence. 

Bashar is more emotional than Daoism, but still I appreciate him, especially here.   

 

 

[thelerner]

By 'the crowd' I think the OP means pop culture.  While they may get more media attention I get the feeling fewer people live in 'pop culture' then one would assume, ie they're not a majority. 

 

If some strangers somewhere are doing X or Y, and its not affecting us, why should we give it much of mind.  Styles change, youth rebels, pop culture seeks out extremes in order to stay new and relevant, until old fashion comes back into style, and the circle goes on. 

 

Dao is about following nature, growing and thriving according to the environment and seasons.  Nature doesn't seek out excitement, or be what it is not. 

 

As a householder, I will buy beer, invite friends over, watch football and hope for an exciting game, cause its fun, and balance means not always cultivating and philosophy.  Maybe its picking out pieces of pop culture, and getting involved and enjoying them.  They are a link to other people and that's important.  One can't live on the mat. 

[freeform]

3 hours ago, thelerner said:

As a householder, I will buy beer, invite friends over, watch football and hope for an exciting game, cause its fun, and balance means not always cultivating and philosophy.

 

I agree. I kind of like having a ‘personality’ and do enjoy having some emotions - a joke and a laugh, feeling a little nervous or excited - I think I’d miss them when they’re gone.

 

But the teachings are clear and they call for emotional neutrality.

 

Although the virtues that replace them also sound pretty good. I’m certainly not even close to those though

[freeform]

Some masters I’ve met almost seem like they’re pretending to be human...

 

I’m wondering if it’s because they’ve reached the stage where the emotions are neutral and they kind of have to fake them to communicate with us ‘normal’ folk.

[rideforever]

Where does romantic love come from ?   It comes from Hollywood movies, and we watch these emotions on the movies and recreate them, and it's actually not real emotions, they are like too bright too fluorescent.   ( my understanding that it is actually the sex energy that is being redirected into emotions to give them the ultra-violet feeling of the movies )   It is exactly like sugar the supermarkets put into all the food to give it a high octane ultra-taste.   It is fake, dirty, and degenerative.

 

We are taught by some traditions to discard this rubbish, and that is correct.   

 

But underneath are real emotions, that come from inside, that are true; but how many have ever felt them ?

 

I was just watching thich nhat hanh, but I don't like the shaving of the head, the shaving of the food, the shaving of the emotions.   This is really ugly, and comes from lack of intelligence, he is a very nice man and may be enlightened but not intelligent.   The Buddhists in Tibet they went into a kind of tomb and lived their being fed from the outside until they stopped eating when the next man dragged the body out and took his place.   Such incredible ugliness and desperation and stupidity.   It's very sad but also tells a story about the true state of human beings and their spirituality.

 

It's just that our society is deeply corrupt so we wish to renounce it all, and we should renounce what is corrupt.   And then life can live again, with all its true feelings that are barely known.  Truth is not asexual or a-emotional, it is just true and all the functions and faculties exist in that truth, and the world is changed and calm.

[thelerner]

36 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Where does romantic love come from ?   It comes from Hollywood movies, and we watch these emotions on the movies and recreate them, and it's actually not real emotions, they are like too bright too fluorescent.   ( my understanding that it is actually the sex energy that is being redirected into emotions to give them the ultra-violet feeling of the movies )   It is exactly like sugar the supermarkets put into all the food to give it a high octane ultra-taste.   It is fake, dirty, and degenerative.

 

I was at a B&B and they had a book of the Best Love Letters in history.  Starting with the 1400's.  Seems romantic love has been around for a long time.. casual sex too. 

Movies exaggerate things, odds are we wouldn't pay to sit 2 hours to see the mundane.   Romantic love is a good thing, in my book.  A high, that doesn't last, but I hope everyone has a chance to experience it.. and maybe let it burn down into another kind of love. 

[manitou]

2 hours ago, thelerner said:

 A high, that doesn't last, but I hope everyone has a chance to experience it.. and maybe let it burn down into another kind of love. 

 

 

And it's wonderful when it does, although it took over 20 years.