Is any of this proven or real?

[CompleteReality]

Let me first state that I am here for learning. I don't have a particular system, or now too much about amy given system. I don't mean any disrespect to anyone and their own belief or system but it seems like the more I read on this stuff, the more cloudy it gets. It honestly feels like in order to find the truth you have to start from square one like the creators or founders or what have you, of a particular school. The point of Daoism and taoism is to achieve immortality correct? have any of the schools and sub-schools actually achieved this? how do they know that their diagrams are right compared to others? how do the know yin chi is stored here or yang chi there? or the behavior of chi and the dantien? Has any one achieved any of the promised achievments of this training that the daoist or taoist used? or have we been just going at it blind with no actual understanding of it? Like can anyone say we know this for sure for these logical and proven reason? idk im so confused and lost, I just want clarity. Especially before I try to rethink all that has already been taught and known and refined for thousands of years and start from the beginning to achieve what all are trying to achieve here.

[Lost in Translation]

19 minutes ago, CompleteReality said:

The point of Daoism and taoism is to achieve immortality correct?

 

Taoism means many things to many people. To some it means a specific form of internal alchemy while to others it means something more philosophical. I suppose you'll need to determine which direction you wish to travel. Of course there are points where both paths converge. Depending upon whom you speak with, you will get an answer that leans more or less in on of these general directions. The degree to which a person is knowledgeable of other schools of thought (Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Shamanism, etc) will influence their view of Taoism.

 

26 minutes ago, CompleteReality said:

The point of Daoism and taoism is to achieve immortality correct? have any of the schools and sub-schools actually achieved this? how do they know that their diagrams are right compared to others? how do the know yin chi is stored here or yang chi there? or the behavior of chi and the dantien? Has any one achieved any of the promised achievments of this training that the daoist or taoist used?

 

There are many who will answer a resounding "Yes!" to the above question. These folks tend to be few and far between, and generally guard their knowledge for only the select few. Many others call this BS. Again, you'll need to make the determination yourself. Perhaps some of the older members will come out of hiding and respond to this topic in detail. There are also some good threads in the backlog of this site that discuss these topics and more. Spend some time with the search feature. You may be pleased with what you find

[Everything]

Not everyone is trying to achieve immortality at all! Only the weird people. And by that, I find them not weird, just different than most people. That's it. 

More people are interested in creating a humanity and world where immortality would actually WANT to be achieved. Which is also why immortality will only be achieved by the masses when the world is in such a state of allowing that desire to be realised. 

And what that will look like, may not be what most people think immortality to be. 

You can wrap a stone around a frog and it will forever be stuck. Endless bondage and suffering. Don't you love the fact that physical beings have the ability to die? Can you see how you would rather want to die, instead of experience more pain? It is completely natural and normal. Nothing wrong with death from my point of view. 

[windwalker]

One might say the point of it   gives them the perspective of understanding they are already immortal.

[Everything]

From a spiritual point of view we already are immortal. So in that sense, maybe you are referring to the desire to realise oneself in a spiritual way. To fullfill their spirituality in life. 

[CompleteReality]

Idk, Im lost as it is. Maybe Im more focused on the Neikung side of things and how it brings a person to immortality and the abilites some claim from their training.

[rideforever]

2 minutes ago, CompleteReality said:

Idk, Im lost as it is. Maybe Im more focused on the Neikung side of things and how it brings a person to immortality and the abilites some claim from their training.

 

What is it that you yourself want and are looking for ?

[CompleteReality]

That is a good question, I guess Im looking to prove to myself that what Ive seen and heard as far as the abilities that arise from certian training of neikung is real. Im looking for myself and my limits. So I can test and push them further if possible I guess.

[Everything]

15 minutes ago, CompleteReality said:

Idk, Im lost as it is. Maybe Im more focused on the Neikung side of things and how it brings a person to immortality and the abilites some claim from their training.

Delete. Rideforever already asked this for me ^^

Edited December 30, 2018 by Everything

[Everything]

10 minutes ago, CompleteReality said:

That is a good question, I guess Im looking to prove to myself that what Ive seen and heard as far as the abilities that arise from certian training of neikung is real. Im looking for myself and my limits. So I can test and push them further if possible I guess.

Ok, power. Where is your power right now in your life? Focus on that. 

What feels like the most powerful thing you can do right now? Think of that and do it, and it doesnt have to be a big future thing. It happens in the moment. As you act on that small/big power and express it fully with zero expectation on what the outcome ought to be and take it as far as you can take it untill you can take it no further, it will then give you forever more ability to act on an even greater power. And you keep expanding like that. So take it easy, because the journey is never gonna end. And you will also enjoy it the more that way as well. 

Edited December 30, 2018 by Everything

[CompleteReality]

Why Im on this journey? That is a powerful question that hits me deep. When I was a kid, alot of bad shit happened to me. My saving grace came in the for of superheroes from comicbooks but mainly from Dragon Ball with son Goku. I wanted to be that guy so powerful and strong that protected everyone amd everything, never letting the bad things that happened to me happen to them. And at the same time I wanted to be just a calm and at peace. One with nature kind of thing. If this helps you give me a better answer.

[Everything]

1 minute ago, CompleteReality said:

Why Im on this journey? That is a powerful question that hits me deep. When I was a kid, alot of bad shit happened to me. My saving grace came in the for of superheroes from comicbooks but mainly from Dragon Ball with son Goku. I wanted to be that guy so powerful and strong that protected everyone amd everything, never letting the bad things that happened to me happen to them. And at the same time I wanted to be just a calm and at peace. One with nature kind of thing. If this helps you give me a better answer.

Yeah exactly, look how powerfully and succesfully you have allowed your true self your soul energy to flow through your mind, now inspiring you with the desire to be that power. 

Now simply look in your life and think, what feels most powerful now? Move in that direction and be it and allow it to be expressed in anyway you are willing. And you can then forever more expand on your power. What can you do right now that feels powerful? Jump ten times? Attempt to run against a wall? And if you fail keep trying? Does commitment feel powerful? But forget about my ideas. You use your own reality and create for yourself, you can certainly start small, and as long as what you do feels powerful, believe me, it will be powerful. 

[Everything]

And we will always fail at something. That just means, there is always more power to be had. So as long as you enjoy expressing your power in anyway you CAN express it now, it will always and forever become more. Wether you fail or not. Often when you fail the hardest, that is when you grow the power of the wisdom and knowledge of knowing your limits. And then you can learn to take it easy, so that that failure can be a stepping stone for a future with allot less failure. How nice is that! 

[rideforever]

Wisdom kindness and timing are also good for protecting people.

 

 

[Aetherous]

1 hour ago, CompleteReality said:

idk im so confused and lost, I just want clarity.

 

Focus on what makes 100% sense.

If it doesn't make sense, it's either something that you don't understand yet, or something false that people are repeating without understand it themselves.

 

If it's false, then it's really worth ignoring. If it's just something you don't yet grasp, then it's worth ignoring for now. You'll understand it when the time is right.

In the meantime, don't ignore what's clear.

[mrpasserby]

my personal experience is:

It is all real if it is real to you: your first experiential knowledge after a initiation into what is called the unseen world/spirit world, by most people is what will make everything come together within your understanding,  if you choose you can view all from a transcendent state.

Having a master pop in to visit you from the unseen world, isn't the all end all, you still have to put in the work of building your own functional spirit body that can operate on the more subtle planes of existence.

I have enjoyed receiving cultivation from masters while studding in this forum with thedaobums, If you are willing/able to receive it so might you. (best forum ever). 

Edited February 25, 2020 by mrpasserby
clearity

[CompleteReality]

You've actually done cultivation? for how long? and what do you have to show for any progress? not trying to be disrepecrful with the question and if I am let me know. But I feel like their important when assessing validity i guess. Not saying you aren't, but to myself.

[Fa Xin]

imagine if immortality really means an immortal spirit and not physical immortality. That your consciousness would survive death (or that you actually had a choice in where you go...)

[sustainablefarm86]

29 minutes ago, Fa Xin said:

imagine if immortality really means an immortal spirit and not physical immortality. That your consciousness would survive death (or that you actually had a choice in where you go...)

 

Even if you don't think you're immortal NOW, know you actually had a choice remember , this community... I wont say much but I hope you remember one day dear friend , you too M............ (I know you are reading it!!!)

Yes, you

 

Is a joke, don't ban, just scaring someone lol

Edited December 31, 2018 by King Jade

[Fa Xin]

4 minutes ago, King Jade said:

 

Even if you don't think you're immortal NOW, know you actually had a choice remember , this community... I wont say much but I hope you remember one day dear friend , you too M............ (I know you are reading it!!!)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Yes, you

 

 

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Is a joke, don't ban me. I actually just realized that M can be Marblehead, I didn't plan it out, maybe he's he's actually reading it hehe 

 
 

 

 

 

Thank you 😊 

 

But what I mean is more like your consciousness surviving, as a separate noncorporeal form (light body), rather than your spirit returning to the source or being reincarnated. 

[CompleteReality]

Well I see a majority share the belief that We are already spiritually immortal. Are there other types of immortality? and how do people go about achieving each?

 

It seems there are many different beliefs on the subject that take different routes. this is what makes it especially confusing.

Edited December 31, 2018 by CompleteReality

[Fa Xin]

Something just doesn’t sit right with striving for physical immortality. Like... what’s the most unnatural thing you can think of? It doesn’t sound Daoist, the way that I understand the TTC. 😊 But I’ve been wrong before - it does happen. I should just make that my signature. 😄

 

[Zen Pig]

4 hours ago, CompleteReality said:

The point of Daoism and taoism is to achieve immortality correct? have any of the schools and sub-schools actually achieved this? how do they know that their diagrams are right compared to others? how do the know yin chi is stored here or yang chi there? or the behavior of chi and the dantien? Has any one achieved any of the promised achievments of this training that the daoist or taoist used? or have we been just going at it blind with no actual understanding of it? Like can anyone say we know this for sure for these logical and proven reason? i

Great questions.  and if someone tells you that they Know For Sure,  then they are full of shit.  In the end, you have to learn and go with your own experiences, knowing that they might be different from others. 

My analogy would be like tasting an apple.  We all agree it is an apple, because we are taught that this thing on that tree is an apple, but do you experience the red of the apple like I do? no way to tell. red is defined as a 625 to about 740 nano meter wave length, but that does not tell me that your subjective experience of the red on the apple is the same as mine.

Do you taste the apple the same way I do.  well, i like apples, and you might or might not, but we have no objective experiment that shows that we taste it the same way.  an apple to me, might taste like chicken taste to you, but we would both agree or disagree that we like the taste of apples.  so Objective science , is good for some things, but most of the universe is subjective. 

so short answer to your question, is that IMO,  you got to find it for yourself.  I suggest start by meditating. learning how to just sit, and watch thoughts,  until these thoughts take a back seat and you have a direct experience of what ever that is.  or you can just dance, or walk in the mountains or woods.  anything to get connected to that that transcends words. good luck. 

[CompleteReality]

1 minute ago, Fa Xin said:

Something just doesn’t sit right with striving for physical immortality. Like... what’s the most unnatural thing you can think of? It doesn’t sound Daoist, the way that I understand the TTC. 😊 But I’ve been wrong before - it does happen. I should just make that my signature. 😄

 

I read somewhere that the Dao is nature or the nature of things. Being in the flow of nature is being Dao correct? But if life and death is the nature of our existence and we can't see past that, how do we know we can achieve immortality of any kind? Does any classic or other kinds of text give an explanation of such things? or is there no logical way to cut it and you just have to have faith in a particular system of beliefs? 

[Fa Xin]

2 minutes ago, CompleteReality said:

I read somewhere that the Dao is nature or the nature of things. Being in the flow of nature is being Dao correct? But if life and death is the nature of our existence and we can't see past that, how do we know we can achieve immortality of any kind? Does any classic or other kinds of text give an explanation of such things? or is there no logical way to cut it and you just have to have faith in a particular system of beliefs? 

I don’t know.  I would say try to read the Tao Te Ching and see if you can find anything.

 

 In my experience, Daoism is more about feeling/heart... than logic/mind stuff or belief systems.