Going to China, Question to Dao Zhen

[exorcist_1699]

Regarding the so-called decline of Taoism in China:

 

As long as the existence of qi is real , Taoism , the only system which bases on it and fully developed from it , will not die out.

 

Just like nuclear power , no matter how deep it hides, as long as it exists, then sooner or later, somewhere in this universe, some intelligent beings will discover it and study it.

Edited February 15, 2008 by exorcist_1699

[三江源]

I'm not happy with suggestions being put forward here in this thread as to who should go, and who should be the board of three.

 

If this goes ahead I would like this to be decided discreetly and the 'votes' or 'nominations' can be dealt with off board.

[gendao]

Dao Zhen,

 

Don't let a few rotten apples push you away. Most of us appreciate your pressence and contributions immensely. This board needs more contributors like you.

Absolutely agreed. I for one, have immensely enjoyed DZ's contributions here thus far.

 

And will be really sad to see him go.

[Pietro]

This is all so very confusing.

 

 

Dao Zhen makes a generous offer, and then before we get a chance to decide who should take it, or who should decide, disappears.

 

Lin, who is normally so respectful, starts making inside jokes.

 

Luckily there is Buddy who maintains a certain levels of coherence.

 

My request for Dao Zhen was actually for something different.

As you can understand if you read my first two posts.

But now that he is gone how am I going to bring them on?

 

On the other hand he asked us (or just me ) to be quiet as he wanted the focus to be on the questions that he was going to pose. Which I did, but then before that has ended, he goes. Hmm.

 

Pietro, are you a member of the Bristish Taoist Association?

 

Thanks Cat. No, I am not a member. Yes, they might be able to help, but what I was looking for is just to build a bridge. A list of address. A place where people can go to start on their trip. I am not sure if they would be interested in that.

 

Pietro, I think your initiating this thread is a sign that you are the appropriate one to go.

 

Thanks Yoda, we obviously have a lot of respect for each other. When I read the offer, and I thought: hmm, who should be in the list of three, and your name came into my head. But would I be the right person? I think someone younger, with less money and more time would use the occasion better. If there are still places I could go as a paying costumer.

 

Plus I could not subscribe to the fact that I will have to teach something unles it is wrong or false. There is a number of other reason why I would not want to pass on something. The first of them would be that a teaching can be not complete, and as such could be dangerous. Or you just feel inside yourself, deep inside, that it is not the right thing to teach those techniques right now.

 

Take for example the practices that I have learned from Mantak Chia. Yes, I feel they are right. But I also feel they are not complete, and as such I have great difficulties in bringing myself to teach them. Even when someone asks me. I don't even use them myself for the same reason.

 

But I am looking for the completion of the Jing to Qi, Qi to Shen teachings that was started with Mantak Chia. And as such I am interested.

 

I'm not happy with suggestions being put forward here in this thread as to who should go, and who should be the board of three.

 

If this goes ahead I would like this to be decided discreetly and the 'votes' or 'nominations' can be dealt with off board.

 

Dear Cat,

could you please clarify better how would you proceed? If things are not on board, how can you ensure that the decision is being made according to how Dao Zhen asked?

 

Pietro

Edited February 15, 2008 by Pietro

[林愛偉]

 

 

Lin, who is normally so respectful, starts making inside jokes.

 

Pietro

 

 

I wasn't joking. About 4 yrs ago, I heard Kwan Sai Hung was upstate NY. That's all I heard

of his whereabouts.

 

Peace and Blessings,

Lin

[dao zhen]

This is all so very confusing.

Dao Zhen makes a generous offer, and then before we get a chance to decide who should take it, or who should decide, disappears.

 

On the other hand he asked us (or just me ) to be quiet as he wanted the focus to be on the questions that he was going to pose. Which I did, but then before that has ended, he goes. Hmm.

 

I was looking for is just to build a bridge. A list of address. A place where people can go to start on their trip. I am not sure if they would be interested in that.

 

Thanks Yoda, we obviously have a lot of respect for each other. When I read the offer, and I thought: hmm, who should be in the list of three, and your name came into my head. But would I be the right person? I think someone younger, with less money and more time would use the occasion better. If there are still places I could go as a paying costumer.

 

Plus I could not subscribe to the fact that I will have to teach something unles it is wrong or false. There is a number of other reason why I would not want to pass on something. The first of them would be that a teaching can be not complete, and as such could be dangerous. Or you just feel inside yourself, deep inside, that it is not the right thing to teach those techniques right now.

 

But I am looking for the completion of the Jing to Qi, Qi to Shen teachings that was started with Mantak Chia. And as such I am interested.

Pietro

 

Dear Pietro.

 

I hope you are in fine spirits.

 

It seems I will need to post a little so we may finish what we started.

 

I am busy with my projects, and just have a pure intention to share my experience, and had never planned to be a full time member here; I actually originally had wished to just drop in for a week or so.

 

I will post a few more articles in the articles section, and also will attach those articles in my photo gallery so they do not become buried over time.

 

I am working on your request for China information now.

 

I am not sure now if I wish to offer the interview questions to the entire board, so if there are those that are sincerely interested to receive such information, please mail me and give me your personal emails, and I will send the information to the compiled list via my personal email; in this way the information is received by those who sincerely wish to read it.

 

REGARDING THE OFFER FOR ONE MEMBER TO COME AND TRAIN IN CHINA:

 

The offer is open, and it is very flexible.

 

There does not need to be any tension regarding it.

 

Most important is someone who in their heart feels attracted to come.

 

We would ask of them what we ask of all people who come, and that is to prepare 2-3 months before coming by following some basic home training combined with lifestyle guidelines.

 

Regarding the "teaching" or "sharing" with others - this is perhaps something people feel nervous about. As such, if the attending member does not feel confident after the training to teach a few friends or others, then that is fine also. It can be a personal choice made by them. We just felt it was a good idea for all to be able to share. We understand our method and our practice, and if there was danger, or such like, of course we would not allow or make such a request.

 

Please contact me if there is someone who wishes to take part in this offer.

 

You may post here, PM me, or email me.

 

REGARDING TRAVEL IN CHINA

 

China is undergoing change very rapidly.

 

I think with a spirit of adventure, one may buy such books as lonely planet, or the rough guide and take off.

 

China is generally very safe, and there is no real worry.

 

One common problem is that some Chinese will try and ovrchage "Lao Wai" or foreigners in shops and the like; so you often may wish to ask to pay half of whatever price they ask for, and then observe what happens.

 

I am not really able to offer a list of teachers, or the like here, as it is just too public, and some people have very pure intentions, and others do not.

 

There are some programs offered by various people on the internet, but many maybe are just really tourism and travel and are not offering any in depth training experience.

 

In this case, if you come to China, you may just need to go and search, and start asking the staff at your hotel, people training in parks, members of temples and the like - and search.

 

This is how I got started.

 

I just came, and searched.

 

I had great and amazing luck.

 

Looking back, those were really the good days.

 

The adventure of the search, the excitement of the unknown.........

 

Now is a different season, one of practice and refinement - more hard work really.

 

Sometimes I miss the adventure of the search!

 

I would always go through some ritual when I would journey in China, and I think it may help you also.

 

1. I would begin in my home to eat very clean foods, do daily meditation, training, and prayer.

 

2. I would have a mental vision or intent for my journey; that I would meet a teacher or guide.

 

3. I would cultivate sincerity and purity of heart.

 

4. When I arrived in China, I always would go to the White Cloud temple, and buy fruit and insense and pray to every shrine and diety housed there - this can take upwards of 3 hours. I would pray in the traditional way - Offer 3 sticks of insense with 3 bows to the shrine. Then bow 3 times, and kneel and place the forehead on the ground 3 times. This is repeated 3 times - In the shrine of Founder Qiu Chuji (丘處機) - Who is the founder of the Dragon Gate Sect - I would give fruit and offerings and pray very sincerely for help and guidance in my search for a teacher.

 

5. Then I would just follow my intuiton and journey, and follow things as they would unfold. Generally most times I would have amazing experiences and meet exceptional people.

 

I think the most important thing in coming to China is to prepare yourself at home first.

 

Train hard and make a very solid foundation.

 

If you are coming to learn Tai Chi learn all you can in your home town first.

 

If you want to learn meditation, train hard at home and gain good skill in sitting silently without moving.

 

If you want to learn Chinese Medicine, learn all the basics you can from books or classes where you live first.

 

If the above is followed, then when you meet an advanced teacher in China, they can actually give you something of value.

 

If you have no basics and no foundation of skill and knowledge, then they can only show you the basics - which you could have learned in books or in local classes in your home town.

 

I am now working on a list of the following for you -

 

十大洞天 - 10 Big holes

36小洞天 - 36 Small holes

76 福地 - 76 Lucky places of Taoism

 

This is a traditional list of the sacred and magical places for cultivation in Taoism.

 

They hold that at one level, the area you practice in can be a big help and support for your cultivation.

 

These are the traditonal caves, and sacred grotto that are thought to be a great help and aid in the cultivation.

 

I will compile this list, and share it here after the Chinese is translated, as I have never seen it listed anywhere.

 

These may be good places to visit on your journey to China, and perform your self cultivation there.

 

These places may be a great aid to the adept following Tao.

 

I also have attached a paper with English and Chinese that can help one travel to Wudang.

 

Wudang is a very sacred and holy mountain.

 

It is also undergoing much influence from the government in relation to tourism promotion, and there are many people teaching wushu here that have no real strength or foundation in the internal cultivation.

 

There are also some real teachers here.

 

So it is really up to your own personal experience.

 

Some have a magical journey, others are very frustrated, and not satisfied.

 

Perhaps in the end, you attract what is the quality within your heart.

 

Which is why I advised the above steps to prepare the heart before coming to China to seek out a teacher.

 

With all my best.

 

Sincerely, dao zhen

 

 

List of Questions to Help in your Journey to Wudang - http://www.thetaobums.com/uploads/12030107...8_56_115446.jpg

 

[Pietro]

I wasn't joking. About 4 yrs ago, I heard Kwan Sai Hung was upstate NY. That's all I heard

of his whereabouts.

 

Peace and Blessings,

Lin

Thanks Lin, sorry for having doubted you.

 

Thanks Dao Zhen for your generous offer.

 

Can i suggest that all those that are willing to go to say so over here?

 

Specifying if they would only go if they are sponsored.

 

I am interested and willing to go, both as a paying costumer and as a sponsored tao bum. I have a job, and i have a teacher so i think someone else should be the sponsored tao bum.

 

Pietro

[dao zhen]

Dear Pietro.

 

Thank you for your letter.

 

I think so far, you have shown the most interest, and you seem to be a very sincere person.

 

I am happy if you come as a sponsored Tao Bum, or as a regular student who pays tuition.

 

Please let us know if anyone else is interested.

 

With my very best reagards.

 

Sincerly, dao zhen

 

PS. I would just like for the member who comes to share something with the Tao Bum community when they return. Be it through sharing the methods learned with a few, or by posting an essay on the experience and some of the things learned such as theory, and the general experience.

[Guest allan]

 

I had great and amazing luck.

 

Looking back, those were really the good days.

 

3. I would cultivate sincerity and purity of heart.

 

4. When I arrived in China, I always would go to the White Cloud temple, and buy fruit and insense and pray to every shrine and diety housed there - this can take upwards of 3 hours. I would pray in the traditional way - Offer 3 sticks of insense with 3 bows to the shrine. Then bow 3 times, and kneel and place the forehead on the ground 3 times. This is repeated 3 times - In the shrine of Founder Qiu Chuji (丘處機) - Who is the founder of the Dragon Gate Sect - I would give fruit and offerings and pray very sincerely for help and guidance in my search for a teacher.

 

5. Then I would just follow my intuiton and journey, and follow things as they would unfold. Generally most times I would have amazing experiences and meet exceptional people.

 

Sincerity is the way of Heaven. When our sincerity touches Heaven, Tao really works in strange and wonderful ways.

[三江源]

Pietro, it is perfectly possible that the BTA would help you. It is also perfectly possible they would not be able to. If they could, they would, and with pleasure. It is definitely worth asking.

 

 

I think voting can be done discreetly via pm or email.

 

If it comes to it, I dont mind seting up an email address to receive the votes for the panel of three and to count them up and make a post announcing who has been chosen.

[Adam West]

Hi all,

 

I'm happy for Pietro to go, as it seems that he wants to go and his life circumstances are such that it is conducive for him to go; and it does not seem that there are too many other candidate equally willing and able.

 

In kind regards,

 

Adam.

[dao zhen]

Dear friends.

 

I also think Pietro seems to be a very good person with a sincere heart and seems to have much interest.

 

I will support the choice of whomever the community picks.

 

I also want to make a comment on the request I put forth that the attending member share the methods with a few members of Tao Bums - this can be a personal choice by the attending member - though another good idea to support sharing would be for them to keep a training journal during their time, and then they may transcribe and post such a journal on Tao Bums when they return which can offer some view of what they experienced and what they learned such as technique, personal experience and theory - this may give good growth to those who can read it.

 

I am also open to them staying a few extra days to have some one to one time, and let them wander and explore the mountain and Taoist community on the mountain.

 

All is very flexible.

 

Pehaps they can also take some photos and post them in a gallery here to share with other members.

 

I am happy to follow any ideas and suggestions; I hope it can all be done in a natural way.

 

With my best regards.

 

Sincerely, dao zhen

[Pietro]

Hello everybody.

 

I am resurrecting this thread for some important reasons.

 

I had some good exchange of emails with our brother Dao Zhen. And I have been practicing his techniques in the last few days. Really too early to say too much, but they seem sound, and interesting. And indeed authentic.

 

Unfortunately work related appointments stops me from being able to make use of the offer fully. I can only go to China for the September period. But the September period is very full, so Dao Zhen's sponsorship only covered fully the June one. It is for the period in June between the 1st of June and the 17th of June. The sponsorship would cover all the costs in China, as such it is a very generous offer. Going while paying the whole cost would be around 2300 $ circa (+trip, which you have in any case).

 

Through the email exchange with Dao Zhen also came out how he was really looking for someone who was willing to fully immerse himself in the experience, leaving back any prejudice, and preknowledge from other schools. This is an understandable requirement since the sponsored Bum will be asked to refer on the practices to the whole community. And to do this faitfhully you need not to contaminate them with your own previous practices. Although, as Adam points out, it is the right time for me to take retreats, and maybe go to China. It is not the right time for me to leave my school, or to start with a new one.

 

So what I am doing right now is integrating what Dao Zhen is teaching with my previous knowledge from BKF and from Chia. This is ok for me, but not so ok for Dao Zhen, who was looking for someone who would be able to fathfully report on these practices.

 

 

So I now would like to ask back:

since I cannot go in June,

since I have too much experience to be the uncarved block that Dao Zhen needs,

since for those reasons I cannot economically and experiencially take full benefit from this occasion,

 

is there someone who can, and is willing to.

 

I know Mantis and Adam seemed interested.

If you (or others) still are please let us know.

 

Pietro

Edited February 20, 2008 by Pietro

[WhiteTiger]

In response to the many people (i.e. Pietro) whom want to know if others are interested

 

to be 100% honest i am interested. (for the full sponsorship) I haven't worked out details and i believe I'm not exactly what Dao Zhen is looking for. Although I am i currently trying to sort things in my mind that proves to show me, and most likely also him through our e-mails and my follow through that I am un-eligible. (Dao Zhen, I'm not at all offended if you want to openly say you don't think I'm ready, i don't think i am, any other words you have or wisdom you can share on the matter would help) I also believe that i strive very hard for my goals when given the opportunity. I do think i'm to low in ability, for most to think I'm unworthy. (i understand where your point of view lies) (at least i do understand how some would start to think that, and i would also like to claim i don't think that I'm a better candidate then others)

 

People keep on saying please say so if your interested... I am interested. Those are my opened, and honest view points on the matter.

 

I am in no way voting for myself. Trying to be nice and opened to all about my personal intentions

 

Thanks and good blessing to all

Edited February 22, 2008 by WhiteTiger

[dao zhen]

Dear Pietro and White Tiger.

 

I hope you are both fine.

 

I think it is best for you two to talk to each other, and see what can take shape.

 

There are no real qualifications for the attending member.

 

We just would want for them to follow our guidelines of practice,

and also follow the guidelines related to lifestyle 2-3 months before coming to China.

 

The main attribute the coming member will need is self discipline to govern your lifestyle.

 

Also an important attribute for the attending member is mental and emotional stability.

 

This is very important to honestly consider.

 

The attending member should be one who has some base of internal calm and stability,

and is not unbalanced mentally or unbalanced emotionally.

 

I am happy to follow and support whomever steps forward.

 

I hope we can all be honest in our communications, and the best person may come.

 

So far, Pietro is very interested, and very serious, and we did work out

a half-sponsorship for September if he is the one to come and represent the Tao Bum community.

 

Pietro is currently working with the basic practice method to prepare for the journey.

 

I am happy to follow what unfolds naturally.

 

Please let me know.

 

With all my best.

 

Sincerely, dao zhen

[freesun]

I am surprised that this thread is not more busy because I think Dao Zhen is offering an amazing oppertunity.

 

In the meantime here is something to help getting everyone in the mood

Jesse in action:

 

5mbvFdrAhAI

[Reader]

Hi all;

 

I bring back this topic. I would like to know if any of our Bums went to Wudang Shan with this generous offer of Teacher Hu and Dao Zhen?

 

It was back in 2008. This year 2010, Teacher Hu again offers 2 workshops in Wudang Shan.

 

If yes then could you please share your experience and possibly the teaching of Teacher Hu?

 

If no then should we ask Teacher Hu to sponsor of our Bum again this year?

 

In kind regards.

[~jK~]

Hi all;

 

I bring back this topic. I would like to know if any of our Bums went to Wudang Shan with this generous offer of Teacher Hu and Dao Zhen?

 

It was back in 2008. This year 2010, Teacher Hu again offers 2 workshops in Wudang Shan.

 

If yes then could you please share your experience and possibly the teaching of Teacher Hu?

 

If no then should we ask Teacher Hu to sponsor of our Bum again this year?

 

In kind regards.

 

A word of advice: Know before you go !

 

Consider this:

Only since 1997 has Hong Kong been returned to China from England's rule, 1999 for Macau from Portugal - and the entire nation of China has only recently emerged from +250 years of foreign ocupation in 1949 -by almost every developed nation with the additional torture on a nationwide scale of forced opium addiction by England.

 

In many - many places in China they have never seen foreigners or blue eyes - they only know and remember what has been done to their ancestors by those that look like you ...

[buscon]

Hi all;

 

I bring back this topic. I would like to know if any of our Bums went to Wudang Shan with this generous offer of Teacher Hu and Dao Zhen?

 

It was back in 2008. This year 2010, Teacher Hu again offers 2 workshops in Wudang Shan.

 

If yes then could you please share your experience and possibly the teaching of Teacher Hu?

 

If no then should we ask Teacher Hu to sponsor of our Bum again this year?

 

*bump*

 

I'd actually like to know too if some of our Bums went to Wudang or not

[Baguakid]

A word of advice: Know before you go !

 

Consider this:

Only since 1997 has Hong Kong been returned to China from England's rule, 1999 for Macau from Portugal - and the entire nation of China has only recently emerged from +250 years of foreign ocupation in 1949 -by almost every developed nation with the additional torture on a nationwide scale of forced opium addiction by England.

 

In many - many places in China they have never seen foreigners or blue eyes - they only know and remember what has been done to their ancestors by those that look like you ...

 

 

I wouldn't worry about this. I lived in China for nearly 2 years. Traveled about and lived in places few LaoWai went. Never had a problem. In fact, I've met many very nice and kind people there who I call friends and with whom I still remain in contact.

Edited February 16, 2010 by Baguakid

[~jK~]

I wouldn't worry about this. I lived in China for nearly 2 years. Traveled about and lived in places few LaoWai went. Never had a problem. In fact, I've met many very nice and kind people there who I call friends and with whom I still remain in contact.

Shure you have - - - that is why you use "LaoWai" - "Gweilo" is the common term -meaning "white devil" that has been used since the 16th century.

[YMWong]

Shure you have - - - that is why you use "LaoWai" - "Gweilo" is the common term -meaning "white devil" that has been used since the 16th century.

 

Not at all !

 

'Laowai' 老外 is a respectful way to address a foreigner in China, it means 'old (lao) foreigner (wai)' where 'old' is a sign or respect.

'Gwailo' 鬼佬 is a cantonese term used only in Guangdong/Guangxi and Hong Kong and it means 'ghost (gwai) man (lo)'.

It has been in use in southern China since the massive arrival of foreigners, mainly european, during the 19th century.

The northern version of 'gwailo' is 'yang guizi' 洋鬼子 (western ghost), which is however mainly used in northern China and seldom used to address directly foreigners.

 

 

YM

Edited February 17, 2010 by YMWong

[mYTHmAKER]

Not at all !

 

'Laowai' 老外 is a respectful way to address a foreigner in China, it means 'old (lao) foreigner (wai)' where 'old' is a sign or respect.

'Gwailo' 鬼佬 is a cantonese term used only in Guangdong/Guangxi and Hong Kong and it means 'ghost (gwai) man (lo)'.

It has been in use in southern China since the massive arrival of foreigners, mainly european, during the 19th century.

The northern version of 'gwailo' is 'yang guizi' 洋鬼子 (western ghost), which is however mainly used in northern China and seldom used to address directly foreigners.

 

 

YM

 

How would you interpret Lofon

[Ya Mu]

I wouldn't worry about this. I lived in China for nearly 2 years. Traveled about and lived in places few LaoWai went. Never had a problem. In fact, I've met many very nice and kind people there who I call friends and with whom I still remain in contact.

Bet you got called "long nose" at least a couple of times

[Baguakid]

Ha ha... Maybe but not to my face or if so in a joking manner.

 

I thoroughly enjoyed China and I'm aching to go back.