How did the Ancient Daoists teach sending excess energy/qi to be stored in the lower dantian?

[yuuichi]

I’m sure there are a lot of modern teachers teaching how to send excess qi to the lower dantian, but I’m more interested in what the ancient Daoists had to say on the matter. What is the traditional way of sending excess qi flowing through the body to be stored in the lower dantian? Thank you

[wandelaar]

Have you looked in the Neiye? Maybe there is something about it there?

[yuuichi]

I couldn’t find anything understandable which I thought was relevant. Thank you anyway.

 

[voidisyinyang]

8 hours ago, yuuichi said:

I couldn’t find anything understandable which I thought was relevant. Thank you anyway.

 

http://www.academia.edu/1727544/The_Alchemists_Daode_jing

professor Clarke Hudson on Tao Te Ching - as "empty the mind, fill the belly" Neidan (qigong - insert proper fancy Chinese term for better marketing strategies).... daoyin, trance dance shamanism, etc.

 

More details here https://studylib.net/pbIH2

 

Edited January 3, 2019 by voidisyinyang

[Aetherous]

Not Daoist but ancient: https://medicineloom.com/2016/03/12/circulating-the-vital-breath-the-xing-qi-jade-inscription/

Edited January 3, 2019 by Aetherous

[OldDog]

10 hours ago, yuuichi said:

 

I couldn’t find anything understandable [in Neiye] which I thought was relevant. 

 

 

I have been reading Neiye by way of Roth and have not found anything so far ... don't expect to.

 

I think such energy methods belong in the realm where Neidan and other esoteric alchemy practices are found. As suggested by others here, you will likely need to have direct instruction from an accomplished one. 

 

Neiye is almost a more overarching text that relates philosphical Daoism to meditative practices but stops short of energetics.

[yuuichi]

24 minutes ago, OldDog said:

 

I have been reading Neiye by way of Roth and have not found anything so far ... don't expect to.

 

I think such energy methods belong in the realm where Neidan and other esoteric alchemy practices are found. As suggested by others here, you will likely need to have direct instruction from an accomplished one. 

 

Neiye is almost a more overarching text that relates philosphical Daoism to meditative practices but stops short of energetics.

 

In the Neiye it says to keep Jing in the heart. Does Jing originate from the heart then? I didn’t know. I thought it was Shen that originated from the heart.

[OldDog]

1 hour ago, yuuichi said:

In the Neiye it says to keep Jing in the heart. Does Jing originate from the heart then? 

 

I don't think so. This is a area of developing interest for me and my understanding is just beginning.

 

Roth makes it clear in his analysis that the term hsin (xin) as heart or mind has broader meaning than just a physical organ, as it is sometimes translated, and often taken in meaning by western readers used to a stricter distinction between matter and energy. Many translators use the term heart-mind as a way of reminding that the term does not necessarily refer to a physical location/organ. So, where it refers to storing ching (jing), it does not literally mean the heart organ. The entire Neiye needs to be understood in this context of broader meanings.

 

Similarly, ching (jing) has broader meanings and implications. Indeed, one of the interesting notions (in Roth's interpretation) is a reciprocating relationship between vital energy and vital essence. This discussion may have direct bearing on your question of where jing originates. 

 

Most of the Neiye has to do with the qualitative aspects of inward cultivation and how to bring about direct apprehension of the Dao.

 

 

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

11 hours ago, Aetherous said:

Not Daoist but ancient: https://medicineloom.com/2016/03/12/circulating-the-vital-breath-the-xing-qi-jade-inscription/

 

yes - there is discussion of that inscription - in relation to the lower dantian

http://www.academia.edu/32735940/Review_of_In_the_Shadows_of_the_Dao.pdf

 

yes to call it "excess energy" is a misnomer.  - the myelination does store the energy - as the small intestines have more neurons than the heart. But the source of the energy is from non-local that is neither inside the body nor outside the body. So in that sense the lower tantien is a spacetime vortex - a 5D black hole.

So this is described in the training books - but the training tradition goes back to the original human culture - the San Bushmen state the strongest source of N/om (qi) in the body is the small intestines. That training tradition is over 70,000 years old!!

[Rocky Lionmouth]

I cant say i know how the ancients did it, i doubt anyone can answer that exactly but the instructions are said to have survived and been developed on since, correct me if i’m wrong.

I dont have formal Taoist training but i suspect the question entails a few oversimplifications.

 

I think storing energy in the LDT goes hand in hand with two other practices: gathering energy and using energy. Just storing it sounds potentially harmful, compare it to ”loading” a punch with your arm and not releasing it or to fill your lungs to max without ever expelling or replacing more than 25% of it. Strenous and impractical.

 

And to gather and store energy in the body for a certain purpose (yet another important step: what is it for?) it still means you have to have a practice to follow and worked significantly to establish the infrastructure for it.

This, iirc, means to have studied the physical requirements and trained your actual body to a certain level before you incorporate the next steps of developing your ”energy body” for lack of a more precise term.

[yuuichi]

@voidisyinyang you say that the small intestines is the source of qi, but the ancient Daoists say the ming men is the source of qi. Also, do you agree that the source of jing is found in the heart?

[freeform]

There is certainly such a thing as storing Qi. In fact at a certain stage it’s a must - or you’ll be frightening the life out of small animals and children after practice!  

 

Trouble is that there are so many milestones before that. It is certainly dangerous and counterproductive to try and store Qi before you’re ready. It’s an intermediate level of practice.

[voidisyinyang]

7 hours ago, yuuichi said:

@voidisyinyang you say that the small intestines is the source of qi, but the ancient Daoists say the ming men is the source of qi. Also, do you agree that the source of jing is found in the heart?

 

So basically meditation and non-western philosophy is mind-body harmonization as natural resonance of reality. It's based on logical inference of the I-thought. So your mind seems to be caught in a closed attachment to physical matter - this is a common Western problem as the West is based on materialistic idealism.

 

So the source of Qi is Qi itself. If you study relativistic quantum physics - this is called the "pilot wave" that is "guiding" reality through "synchronous"  and "primordial time." So the Universe exists within us and we exist within the Universe at the same time.

 

The spiritual ego is the speed of light - our biophotons are coherent lasers. But the light as shen originates from spacetime itself as the source of reality - what is called the void or Emptiness. So inside our body it is the "space" between our thoughts.

 

So jing is actually originated from neurons - jing as "essence" as Yuan Jing is actually NOT material. So this is also called "yin matter" that is the "golden key" - and is "superluminal" - so it is virtual matter from the future. This is how light as gamma radiation then creates particles and antimatter and what's now called "nega-particles" - creates light.

 

So Qi can be yang qi or yin qi - but the yang qi has substance while the yin qi does not. The yin qi is like electrons - since they have a much smaller size than photons. But the thing about Shen is that it has no rest mass - so as the spiritual ego - it is eternal with eternal motion. But on its own - it is a ghost - but only when the Shen is 'Of no Shen" - as Yuan Shen - then it has Motion. So the original human culture - the San Bushmen - call this "ReEntry into Original Creation" - or what is known as "Dreamtime" in Australian Aborigine culture.

 

Quote

 

When t’ai chi is at rest, yang and yin are united;
when t’ai chi is in motion, the two opposing forces separate. Herein
lies the secret of immortality.

The Magus of Java: Teachings of an Authentic Taoist Immortal (on John Chang).

 

"The whole process is ruled by Spirit....It's movement in 'non-doing' is called Original Spirit." Wang Mu, Foundations of Internal Alchemy.

The primal qi (li yuanqi) ....formless

"Since is it the undivided yin-yang it is called the One Vitality."

 

 

so the Non-doing is turning the light around - in meditation with the eyes closed. The movement is the Yuan Qi that is the pilot wave - from the future. So now the relation to Jing is that Yuan Qi is integrated with  Yuan Shen - since the light is turned around - but it's also integrated with Yuan Jing - since the yuan qi is the energy of the virtual matter.

 

Turn the light or Shen around to bring qi out of the jing - jingqi is Yuan Qi

There is an excellent essay on the connection of philosophical Taoism to religious Neidan training - by Zhang Guangbao

p. 183, originally published 2006, Beijing.

Inner alchemy from philosophical Taoism.

So he makes the very crucial insight that "yuan qi" actually is "jingqi" - and he cites the evidence for this.

So just as I have argued in my pdf - the alchemy practice is the shen turned around so it is "below" the jing - thereby creating the qi - and this is the eternal process.  (Fire under Water creates Steam)

According to him [Liu Huayang], the prenatal jing and the prenatal shen were identical....In the moment of chaos [prenatal shen], there is movement in peace [prenatal jing].

That is how the yuan qi then manifests, after the lower tan tien is filled up. p. 249
Zhang, Guangbao states indeed - this "jingqi" is the primordial cosmic yuanqi - from this process of the shen being contained internally along with the jing to bring out the qi energy.

[Wayfarer]

The only thing I know of that comes close is about not leaking energy from this area and that is guarding the yin.  I dont know where i read it but when thoughts settle and there become an inner quiet, the energies naturally settle and there is a sinking feeling in the belly that feels as though energies are kept there.  

 

This is more about immortality than storing excess qi.  Also there isnt a source of qi as such, the whole of you is qi manifest from the Dao, or rather not from but as you.  It may help to know the reason behind the OP question.

[rideforever]

Internal Alchemy is the "alchemy" of playing energy tricks whilst you slowly die and don't quite get it.
It is indeed ancient.

 

What has "storing energy" or energy per se have anything to do with anything.
An ancient Daoist if he is a Daoist will be concerned in sinking into the truth of non-action and flow.   What has that to do with cultivating energy.
It's more like recognition of his truth and the truth of existence, it is recognition.
Any "energy work" must be precluded and postcluded by recogntion otherwise it is simply more monkey-accumulation of worldly possessions of a subtle but mortal kind.

 

 

Edited January 7, 2019 by rideforever

[exorcist_1699]

You don't  put  the most precious thing at the place where you most likely will  lose it. Unfortunately the lower dantian is situated at the area  where we get rid of our waste, and jing,  in its full status  , is very likely  turned into liquid form and released outside from there . So, the 1st step to prevent such a loss  is to turn it into qi's form .  

 

However, as we  accumulate as much  qi as we can in the lower dantian , the danger of its being turned back into jing and then released outside as  semen  is  also built up , which is why the introduction of the Micro Cosmic Circulation is neccessary . Note that by turning jing into qi  and let it move upwards, the danger of its being lost is lessened. In fact, by  looking at the jing-> qi-> shen-> emptiness  formula, you can find that through changing their respective forms, you lessen the danger of their being lost  at respective stages... Sharp readers may have noticed that the way of preventing qi's loss and making the most out of it ,   is to turn it into shen , not just accumulating a big volume of it.

 

Also notice that  the more qi ( or shen)  you  store in your body , the more likely the local one expands , contacts and merges with the external qi , which is limitless;  this is why forever life possible . Hardly can you only reply on your local qi  to get forever youth .

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by exorcist_1699

[voidisyinyang]

1 hour ago, exorcist_1699 said:

You don't  put  the most precious thing at place where you most likely lose it. Unfortunately the lower dantian is situated at area  where we get rid of our waste, and jing,  in its full status  , is very likely  turned into liquid form and released outside. So, the 1st step to prevent such a loss  is to turn it into qi form .  

 

However, as we  accumulate as much  qi as we can in the lower dantian , the danger of its being turned back into jing and then released outside as  semen  is  also built up , which is why the introduction of the Micro Cosmic Circulation is needed. Note that by turning jing into qi  and let it move upwards, the danger of its being lost is lessened. In fact, when looking at the jing-> qi-> shen-> emptiness  formula, you can find that by changing their respective forms, you lessen the danger of their being lost  at respective stages... Sharp readers may have noticed that the way of preventing qi's loss and making the most out of it ,   is to turn it into shen , not just accumulating it .

 

Also notice that  the more qi ( or shen)  you  store in your body , the more likely the local one expands and contacts with the external qi , which is limitless;  it is why forever life possible . Hardly can you only reply on your local qi  to get forever youth .

 

 

excellent point. Yes the "immortal fetus" is the yuan qi of the middle tan t'ien - and then after a certain level this goes beyond death. So you access the yuan qi directly via the right side of the heart - beyond death - with each breath - and from this you create Yuan Shen that are sent out to heal people. I saw qigong master chunyi Lin doing this - each spirit is created individualized for each person being healed - it forms a top his head, the breaks off and floats out to the person being healed. So it is the Yuan Qi that does the healing - and so beyond a certain stage there is no need to "store" the energy in the lower tan t'ien.

 

For example qigong master Jim Nance in 2005 - we were at the Red Dragon restaurant - and the waitress brought the water but he insisted to have it returned since the water had ice in it. Then in 2014 or so - we were at another chinese restaurant and he drank the water with ice. I asked him what had changed - he said after a certain level it didn't matter. Also he said that he no longer did the horse stance as much to build up the energy stored in his lower tan t'ien. So he was just accessing it directly via the Yuan Qi beyond death through the heart. I know this since he gave me this experience - the right side of the heart got activated with strong qi - when I was ranting about politics while driving the car. He first said, "But I'm on your side!" I kept ranting. He got super quiet and then suddenly the right side of my heart - real deep - got strong qi electrical pulsations. So I immediately shut up. Then he said, "I just wanted to see if you were speaking from your heart and you were."

 

[Spotless]

In the lower Dan Tien Area there are a great many abilities and latent possibilities.

 

Storing Qi is automatically done as it is part and parcel to the subtle bodies formulation of the physical bodies.

 

It is the fire pit and naturally has its reserves of fuel and inroads of fuel.

 

It is also very much involved with the instinctive basics and it is the centre

poont of balance.

 

In this area are scanners and radar of sorts, extremely fine sensing abilities, levitation / telekinesic capabilities, heating capacities and combustion capabilities of the utmost highly specialized tuning capabilities.

 

It does not take too much to stumble upon a great many of the capacities.

Unfortunately - we think everything higher up the body is better and so we look to the leaves and branches instead of the roots and trunk.

 

This area and the words I have just used do not even modestly point to the capabilities in this area.

 

It is enormously under used and under developed. An many of the capabilities are inaccessible without considerable inner accomplishment.

 

However - most are readily accessible and actually in use constantly without any idea that they are being employed or from that area.

 

(the considerable inner accomplishment has nothing to do with learning how to use them

and practicing with them - many of the abilities require a level of unfolding in order to “qualify” as capable to have them open to you. 

Certain propensities within your makeup of vibrations must no longer exist in order to have availability to them.)

 

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Spotless