Physiological Sex Based on Fertility?

[MooNiNite]

According to Google:

A male (♂) organism is the physiological sex that produces sperm. Each spermatozoon can fuse with a larger female gamete, or ovum, in the process of fertilization. A male cannot reproduce sexually without access to at least one ovum from a female, but some organisms can reproduce both sexually and asexually.

 

So if a person cannot produce sperm are they still male?

 

Notice the definition doesn't say "of the physiological sex" it says "is the physiological sex."

 

[MooNiNite]

Female: of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) that can be fertilized by male gametes.

 

Female definition uses the word "of" instead of "is" which is more broad, but still based on fertility. So if you can't product eggs are you still female?

 

[Aetherous]

 

3 minutes ago, MooNiNite said:

So if a person cannot produce sperm are they still male?

 

Yes. You don't stop being male when you're elderly for instance.

[MooNiNite]

16 hours ago, Aetherous said:

Yes. You don't stop being male when you're elderly for instance.

 

I am talking about how these words are literally defined.

Edited January 4, 2019 by MooNiNite

[rideforever]

Yes and a human is a "featherless biped".
Hmm.

 

Which points to the silliness of the human intellect which has got to differentiating things in the environment .... a 2 toed animal or a 3 toed animal.   And thinks itself very clever for doing so.   It is a young and immature type of intelligence that we are all instructed to live through.

In fact our older animal intelligence is vast and deep and spiritual, it is in contact with the real and actually makes most of our decisions that's why we have survived.   
The intellect of the modern brain that has got as far as ... men have pipi women have nunu is far too stupid to protect us.

 

 

Edited January 4, 2019 by rideforever

[Apech]

On 1/4/2019 at 1:35 AM, MooNiNite said:

Female: of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) that can be fertilized by male gametes.

 

Female definition uses the word "of" instead of "is" which is more broad, but still based on fertility. So if you can't product eggs are you still female?

 

 

There's a grammatical difference between this quote and 'A male (♂) organism' in the first quote which produces the 'of' not 'is' - it's not a definitional difference.

 

Humans are sexually dimorphic which means there are two sexes, male and female, defined in the way that you quoted.  Now of course it occurs that some of those people who are either male or female experience dysfunction.  So you could have an impotent man or a woman who is infertile.  This doesn't change the fact that their bodies are set up to either produce sperm or eggs - as in your car doesn't stop being a car because it breaks down.  There are also people who are intersex in that they may have a genetic disorder that fails to produce distinct male or female characteristics.

[MooNiNite]

On 1/5/2019 at 2:24 AM, Apech said:

as in your car doesn't stop being a car because it breaks down. 

 

I see your point. And I probably agree with it. But there is a certain assumption that is made.

 

Maybe we should look at what it means to define something:

"a formal and concise statement of the meaning of a word, phrase, etc"

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/definition

 

Key word here is concise. For example, as quoted above, your broken car does stop being a car if it no longer fits the definition of a car. If a car is defined as something that can use gas and go 60mph, then your immobile piece of metal isn't a car anymore by definition.

 

Just because you know it once was a car, doesn't mean it still is. 

 

The real definition of a car: 

"A car is a wheeled motor vehicle used for transportation."

If we take the wheels off, is it still a car? Not by definition. 

 

"A male (♂) organism is the physiological sex that produces sperm."

 

Concise: "giving a lot of information clearly and in a few words; brief but comprehensive."

 

[Aetherous]

55 minutes ago, MooNiNite said:

If we take the wheels off, is it still a car? Not by definition. 

 

If it's in the shop, and for some reason they took all the wheels off to do a repair, are they no longer working on your car? Your "car" suddenly vanishes from existence! That would suck.

[Apech]

Meaning is the definition of the limits of application of terms.  It is not so much 'is it a car' once the wheels have been taken off - it is what it is - it is simply a question of whether you can meaningfully still apply the term 'car' to it.

 

Its the same with human beings.  The application of the term male or female is not a definition of the whole being or the totality of that person.  So the term 'male' is applicable to more or less 50% of the population which is applied because they are capable (or designed to be) of producing sperm.  With this comes some other characteristics such as height and muscle mass and so on.  So you can make average statistical statements about 'men' or 'women' knowing that the variation within those populations will make each infdividual different.

 

 

[MooNiNite]

12 hours ago, Aetherous said:

 

If it's in the shop, and for some reason they took all the wheels off to do a repair, are they no longer working on your car? Your "car" suddenly vanishes from existence! That would suck.

 

No the array of materials themselves don't vanish. Only their collective scientific reference changes.

[Aetherous]

29 minutes ago, MooNiNite said:

No the array of materials themselves don't vanish. Only their collective scientific reference changes.

 

I don't think so. Everyone still says "Oh, they're working on MooNiNite's car." They don't say, "The mechanics are working on MooNiNite's array of materials that would be a car if it had four wheels attached."

Dictionaries are created based on how people speak, and not the other way around.

 

To get back to the male thing, I think it requires careful reading of that Google dictionary entry, which is written poorly. A male is not an entire physiological sex; a male is an individual member of that group. It's good to consult multiple dictionaries in the case of one being poorly written.

Edited January 7, 2019 by Aetherous

[MooNiNite]

5 hours ago, Apech said:

Meaning is the definition of the limits of application of terms

 

Source?

 

The definition of a definition is about being concise.

Source: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/definition

[MooNiNite]

7 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

 

I don't think so. Everyone still says "Oh, they're working on MooNiNite's car." They don't say, "The mechanics are working on MooNiNite's array of materials that would be a car if it had four wheels attached."

Dictionaries are created based on how people speak, and not the other way around.

 

 

 

Definitions by definition or concise and make something definite. 

"the act of defining, or of making something definite, distinct, or clear:"

definite: "clearly defined or determined; not vague or general; fixed; precise; exact:"

 

Notice the not vague or general part.

(https://www.dictionary.com/browse/definite)

 

Definitions, by definite, are meant to be exact. You are talking out of practicality without any sources.

 

[Aetherous]

Just now, MooNiNite said:

You are talking out of practicality without any sources.

 

Practicality, or "vernacular" is a big part of how dictionary entries are formed. Each year, they add new words to the English language based on common use.

 

Also, check this out: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/male

[Apech]

40 minutes ago, MooNiNite said:

 

Source?

 

The definition of a definition is about being concise.

Source: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/definition

 

 

Sauce?

 

[MooNiNite]

Tapatio' please.

[MooNiNite]

Both of the definitions use the word sex which is defined as: "either of the two main categories (male and female) into which humans and many other living things are divided on the basis of their reproductive functions."

[Aetherous]

20 minutes ago, MooNiNite said:

Both of the definitions use the word sex which is defined as: "either of the two main categories (male and female) into which humans and many other living things are divided on the basis of their reproductive functions."

 

The link in my last post defines male as: "Of or denoting the sex that produces gametes, especially spermatozoa..."

 

Of is the key word there.

[Aetherous]

3 hours ago, Apech said:

 

 

Sauce?

 

 

Lousisiana, Cholula, Franks...for different applications. Sriracha is overrated.

[Stosh]

All groupings and subdivisions have an abstract element to them. One can redraw the delineations as they see most appropriate, but they aren't real.

 

Men and women  are not purposed to create sex cells. There are no purposes to serve, because there is no ultimate beneficiary.

 

Unless you are a mutant , every gene you have can be reasonably assumed to be out in the population at large, so the only thing you can exclusively offer are the unique experiences an actions of your lifetime , not your gametes.

[dawei]

On 2/12/2019 at 7:18 PM, Stosh said:

All groupings and subdivisions have an abstract element to them. One can redraw the delineations as they see most appropriate, but they aren't real.

 

Men and women  are not purposed to create sex cells. There are no purposes to serve, because there is no ultimate beneficiary.

 

Unless you are a mutant , every gene you have can be reasonably assumed to be out in the population at large, so the only thing you can exclusively offer are the unique experiences an actions of your lifetime , not your gametes.

 

All three sentences are somewhat abstract.

 

1. They aren't real?  WHAT IS REAL?

2. Not purposed... no beneficiary ?  WHAT IS LIFE ?

3. Every gene... unique experience... actions of your life time.  Not your gametes.   WHAT IS DAO ?

[Stosh]

11 hours ago, dawei said:

 

All three sentences are somewhat abstract.

 

1. They aren't real?  WHAT IS REAL?

2. Not purposed... no beneficiary ?  WHAT IS LIFE ?

3. Every gene... unique experience... actions of your life time.  Not your gametes.   WHAT IS DAO ?

Am I supposed to answer something here?