Hello! Is Taoism right for me?

[Manru23]

Hello and Happy 2019! 

 

(Apologies in advance for long post!!!!)

 

I am a British lady in London who has recently been restarting a long paused spiritual journey and I really like the principles and ideas of Daoism/ Taoism but have some doubts/ concerns. 

 

Daoism itself is not new to me, I studied Chinese from a Bachelor Degree level and spent five years living in China, however at the time I had never considered it would be a path for me.

 

The last six months I have felt a strong yearning for spiritual fulfillment and growth but I have a checkered past when it comes to religion, my parents were both agnostic and I joined the church on my own at 11, then at 18 several things happened that made me refute my Christian beliefs.

 

I have always been a very spiritual person drawn to a wide variety of ideas, I used to do crystal meditations as a teenager and had very positive experiences with Tai Chi. Although I have tried to convince myself otherwise I can’t shake the feeling there may be “something out there” and that spiritual practice will enrich my life and fill the void I am feeling.

 

However I find many modern religions pious and judgmental- especially about women- and in conflict with the things I consider important in life ( sexuality, peace, tolerance, passion, etc). 

 

I’ve read certain texts and watched videos that talk about Taoism as a lifestyle/ philosophy/ religion however a lot of these seem at odds with the ideas covered in the original texts. 

 

Following that winding preamble what I really want to ask is:

 

How does Daoism impact on your life? What actions or thoughts do you believe a Daoist should/ shouldn’t do/have? 

 

How does Daoism fit in with a modern lifestyle? ( office jobs, social constructs, romantic relationships)

 

Any advice or anecdotes would really be appreciated! 

[Fa Xin]

Hello, Manru23, and welcome.

 

Your membership is approved and we're happy you found your way to us. We look forward to accompanying you on some of the way that you still have to go.

 

Please take the time to read the post pinned at the top of this Welcome page and take a look at the forum Terms and Rules.   This covers all you need to know when getting started.

 

For the first week you will be restricted to ten posts per day but after that you can post as much as you like. Also, until you’ve posted fifteen times in the forums, you’ll be a “Junior Bum” with somewhat restricted access and will be allowed only two private messages per day.

 

Good luck in your pursuits and best wishes to you,

 

Fa Xin and the TDB team

 

Welcome Manru23,

 

Wow! Those are deep questions! All I can say - that won't fill a book - is that Taoism can be applied to any situation, by anyone.  Taoism is found inside yourself, not outside... so can be applied anywhere at anytime. Enjoy the forum!

 

You are welcome to jump right in to the ongoing discussions, revive an older thread, start a new thread of your own, or start a discussion in the "Newcomer Corner" sub-forum to expand on your introduction or ask general questions to help you get started.

 

May you enjoy your time here.

 

Fa Xin

[Manru23]

5 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

Hello, Manru23, and welcome.

 

Your membership is approved and we're happy you found your way to us. We look forward to accompanying you on some of the way that you still have to go.

 

Please take the time to read the post pinned at the top of this Welcome page and take a look at the forum Terms and Rules.   This covers all you need to know when getting started.

 

For the first week you will be restricted to ten posts per day but after that you can post as much as you like. Also, until you’ve posted fifteen times in the forums, you’ll be a “Junior Bum” with somewhat restricted access and will be allowed only two private messages per day.

 

Good luck in your pursuits and best wishes to you,

 

Fa Xin and the TDB team

 

Welcome Manru23,

 

Wow! Those are deep questions! All I can say - that won't fill a book - is that Taoism can be applied to any situation, by anyone.  Taoism is found inside yourself, not outside... so can be applied anywhere at anytime. Enjoy the forum!

 

You are welcome to jump right in to the ongoing discussions, revive an older thread, start a new thread of your own, or start a discussion in the "Newcomer Corner" sub-forum to expand on your introduction or ask general questions to help you get started.

 

May you enjoy your time here.

 

Fa Xin

 

Thank you so much! I look forward to exploring much more!

[sl23]

12 hours ago, Manru23 said:

Although I have tried to convince myself otherwise I can’t shake the feeling there may be “something out there” and that spiritual practice will enrich my life and fill the void I am feeling.

Sounds like the story of my life!!!

I have always been a skeptic. I scrutinize everything, maybe too much. To the point of exhausting all possibilities. I have looked at religions and used this analytical approach to destroy every proof, notion or ideal setout within them.

 

Though personally I've always known in my heart that religion is just, well, wrong for want of a better word.

It's ideals are fantastical, requiring you to believe something without a shred of proof, no questions allowed and if they are, the answer is always something mysterious like 'only God has the answer!' Translated means we don't know! I found this to be true of Yoga philosophy too, which isn't a religion, though I believe it was originally practised by Hindus. History and religion are two of my pet hates

 

That's not to say they're all fake. It's just there is no ONE religion or ideal, there's just truth, but it's your own truth. Religion is supposed to provide answers, hope, solace, free you from your self by giving up that which is your only way out, Your Will. You are in control of your own life more than you probably know.

 

Though a few years ago I did want answers about religion so by chance(?) I had a couple of Jehovah's Witnesses knock my door. They visited several times and the last time, the anger and impatience of their inability to subdue and convert me was inherently apparent. They simply could not provide answers to my questions.

 

Sorry, I digress! Taoism has never been something I've looked into, I suppose because to me it's another religion. Though I have had a long interest in Shaolin martial arts as well as the internal styles. I don't actually know much about Taoism now I think about it, something I may have to remedy. But, for me, I think systems are wrong. Religion or spirituality is a highly personal thing. Each of us is different, you don't need a path to follow, you're already following the path that is right for you. Following a set path can guide you by helping you focus on certain ideals, that's great, but beyond that, all philosophy is pointless. I know, I know, I'll be shot down for saying this, but it's only my opinion. If 10,000 people agreed with me, would that make it a religion? That's exactly what's happened!

 

Religion in all it's forms are there to either control the populace, for those unable to think for themselves, or those that do, to provide comfort, a sense of belonging to something. Because let's face it, a spiritual path is a lonely one! If you don't find it so, you aren't following a spiritual path, because as I've said, it's a very personal thing.

 

I only came here yesterday by accident. I was looking at Shifu Yan Lei's website on Qi Gong. But I read on there that he will help guide you as much as he can, but 90% of the work is yours. Only you can do what's required for you. Religion seems to be the other way around!

 

As Neale Donald Walsch stated, there is no right or wrong.

We just Are. In the grand ultimate scheme of things, if there is ultimately no right or wrong, what does it matter what you do? But this is again another dead end, despite making perfect sense in his book. There are no answers to anything here, in this world, plane, whatever it is. All these ideas about religion, philosophy, practices, are all conjecture. We FEEL a need to be better, searching for something, but what is it? Nobody can provide an answer, if they can, they can't back it up, so their answer becomes false.

 

Believe in Dao or don't believe in Dao, it makes no difference to who or what you are, you will still be on your path. Daoism, or any religion, is not a requirement but an aid. but only IF, IF there is validity to the bold claims of those enlightened ones.

 

You see, that in itself is something taken for granted. What IS enlightenment? A state of feeling free from the binds of life? Happiness, contentment? Great attributes, but it takes a lifetime to achieve something that is utterly pointless as we all die! Unless you accept that we are more than Human flesh. If we could know, truly know that there is life after death, that we are immortal as is claimed by most religions and spiritual paths, all of these practices are a waste of life and we should all be materialists, gorging ourselves with our selfish desires that are never satisfied.

 

I've longed for two answers, which are:

1. Are we really just flesh and bone or do we truly have an immortal soul that reincarnates?

2. Why DO hotdogs come in packs of 8, yet hotdog buns come in packs of 6?

 

Aleister Crowley had it right when he said 'Do what thou wilt, let that be the whole of the law'

I know little of his system, beliefs or ideals, but this much is true. Because we have no answers and can provide none. Practice seems the only way to provide such proof, but which? Does it even matter which? There can be no one single path if we are all different.

 

Sorry for the long post, I'm getting there!

 

 The upshot of it all is, follow what you believe to be true, because that is all we can do. Follow your own truth, because there is nothing else to follow. You wouldn't follow something you believed untrue, you have shown this. So just do what's right and as a wise friend said to me about 30 years ago... 'Be good!' That's all we can do.

 

Take care and all the best

[Manru23]

59 minutes ago, sl23 said:

 

 

Aleister Crowley had it right when he said 'Do what thou wilt, let that be the whole of the law'

I know little of his system, beliefs or ideals, but this much is true. Because we have no answers and can provide none. Practice seems the only way to provide such proof, but which? Does it even matter which? There can be no one single path 

 

 The upshot of it all is, follow what you believe to be true, because that is all we can do. Follow your own truth, because there is nothing else to follow. You wouldn't follow something you believed untrue, you have shown this. So just do what's right and as a wise friend said to me about 30 years ago... 'Be good!' That's all we can do.

 

Take care and all the best

Thank you very much for your reply and your thoughts. What appeals to me about Taoism in general is that it is a highly personalised believe system, one of the main principles is “the way that can be described/ named is not the true way”, which therefore encompasses a tolerance and openness to all other beliefs and religions. 

 

For me it was the hypocrisy of those who prescribe to systemic religion which gave me pause for thought, the families who were the most active within my local church were the more selfish, arrogant, greedy and hypocritical and for me I just couldn’t get over the way religion have them an added sense of entitlement to look down on others. 

 

When I was in China there was a woman who was desperate to convert me to Buddhism, she had a monk make a prayer necklace for me and even took me to the temple and showed me how to pray. What struck me was all the money people were paying inside the temple to burn incense then when she came out and walked past a homeless man with one leg she simply put her hands together  and said 阿弥陀佛. 

 

Any way thanks again for the food for though!

[sl23]

You're most welcome

 

I have to admit, the little I know about Taoism, it is very appealing. I like the quote you selected very much too!

 

The trouble is, in my experience, just about everyone I've encountered is a selfish, egotistical liar! They hide behind their social masks so well, but I've grown to be able to see straight through the vast majority of it. There was a film called Jupiter ascending released few years ago. I can't exactly remember the lines but was about trust. It stated something along the lines of... Trust does not exist, the trusted only follow according to their current desires, trends. As soon as the trusted person's desires differ from yours, they could easily go against you!

 

No one, No one has the right to look down upon another, no matter what their role in life is. At least if this whole spiritual thing is real! If not then the reverse could be true, who knows? But you can't know how or why some other person has become a monster. Life is so utterly complex that we should judge not lest we be judged.No I'm not Christian or any other ian. But that simple truth, along with many others, stands true and will always be so. Truth is immutable.

 

It's amazing what people will do for money! I watched a video on YouTube about a young Indian boy meditating inside a hollow tree without food or water for, it was either 6 or 18 months! But he became a local phenomenon. Thousands came to visit near the end so a fence was erected to avoid disturbing him. Some westerners heard of it, students I think, wanted to make a documentary. They weren't allowed to film up close only from around 25m away. They had infrared camera to film at night, but too far away to see. It was just blackness. So there's no way of knowing if he was fed and watered then. An amazing feat in itself, to sit there day after day without food or water without moving, just sat in the lotus posture.

 

Around 18 months, I'm sure it was that long, he disappeared one night. Wasn't seen or heard from for some time. Then he started to teach. The video I saw of him in meditation with some students, was strange! He sat there in lotus, all was silent, hair covering part of his face, bit like The Grudge! lol But he sat there meditating then opened eyes and started looking around at people without moving his head. Then after a minute or so closed eyes again.

 

Apparently, they earnt quite a bit of money from that little escapade! So was he genuine or not? I seriously doubt it!

 

That's the trouble with humanity, greed and corruption is widespread and getting worse!

[Jeff]

Interesting on your views.  While I would agree that the institutional church has gone a little off direction, I am a huge fan of the teachings of Jesus. Very advanced and very similar to the Tao Te Ching. Lot of good stuff in the gospels (but I would probably throw away the Old Testament  ).

 

On real teachers... In my experience the true ones are definitely not about money. Most wont even take it. But, I agree there are a lot of fakes out there that are focused on money.

[sl23]

I hope I didn't offend!

Contrary as it may sound, I believe in much of what Jesus had to say. That's not my issue. My issue is with organised religion. It's been seriously abused to entrap and take advantage of vulnerable people in so many ways.

 

Haha, you say most won't take money, how do you know? Have you met that many true teachers?

[Zen Pig]

On 1/5/2019 at 5:02 PM, Manru23 said:

What actions or thoughts do you believe a Daoist should/ shouldn’t do/have? 

well, none what so ever, as far as i can see. Like zen, Daoism seems to be the act of just looking with out belief, or judgement, to just travel the road, not to get anywhere, but just for the joy of going into the unknown. laughing all the way. good luck

[Manru23]

8 hours ago, Zen Pig said:

well, none what so ever, as far as i can see. Like zen, Daoism seems to be the act of just looking with out belief, or judgement, to just travel the road, not to get anywhere, but just for the joy of going into the unknown. laughing all the way. good luck

 

Hello Zen Pig, thank you very much that certainly is a great ideal to have but sometimes I wonder how it fits with a modern life. As an office worker at the beginning of my career it is hard not to have ambition for the future and feel the need to achieve success/ notoriety in my chosen career path....yes this seems at odds with Daoist teachings which does cause me to feel conflicted. 

 

Thanks again for your reply!

[Zen Pig]

3 minutes ago, Manru23 said:

yes this seems at odds with Daoist teachings which does cause me to feel conflicted. 

good points.  I just retired a bit over a year ago from our local university, and also worked for the federal government in a GS-09 position in an agency,  In which I was an administrate officer.  so, i get what you are pointing to.  but from a zen point of view, (because i am not daoist, but of course it is all connected), everything always works out, maybe not in the way we think it should, but when I look back, it is all perfect.  this does not mean that I don't have goals,  but my goals are not written in stone, as I have said in other post.  fluid living,  having a flexible mind. not taking our ideas, or beliefs, or social pressures to seriously. One of my favorite sayings is, "Just because life is perfect doesn't mean that it can't be improved on". LOL.  

[Lost in Translation]

On 1/5/2019 at 4:02 PM, Manru23 said:

How does Daoism impact on your life? What actions or thoughts do you believe a Daoist should/ shouldn’t do/have? 

 

How does Daoism fit in with a modern lifestyle? ( office jobs, social constructs, romantic relationships)

 

Taoism is acceptance of that which is, without preconceptions or desires. That is the way. The rest are flowery trappings.

 

How does this fit in with modern life? How often do you resist? How often do you struggle against what is, unable to change what is external to you and unwilling to change what is internal?