Are Humans Essentially Conscious and Immortal ?

[rideforever]

The strange thing is, perhaps people are conscious, ordinary people that is.  They are conscious in a "human way", meaning it's not the jedi consciousness of Buddha, but it's the appropriate consciousness for humans ... it is Real and "immortal" but not very deep.

 

The spiritual monkeys have beaten their drums about sin and enlightenment and so on ... they scare the life out of everyone with their shaven heads and massive brooding buildings, and long utterly stupid scriptures, and the effect is extremely demoralising on the ordinary people who then become very scared and start contorting them according to whatever notions of good and evil, the stupid spiritual monkeys can hit them with.

 

The spiritual monkeys are the stupidest on the whole planet, that's why they don't have jobs.    They sit on their backside, good for nothing, and tell each other how wonderful they are, with cunning and well-prepared arguments they demoralise the ordinary man walking to work or woman looking after the home.   The more the spiritual monkeys smash the ordinary people, the more disturbed and fearful they get and fall into bad ways.   And the more they can demoralise ordinary people, the more proud the spiritual monkeys are.

 

Some caveats :

 

Ordinary human consciousness although I believe it may in fact be "Real", is quite sensitive because humans are sensitive and easily demoralised.   So one could say that they are in a vulnerable place, and all could do with encouragement.   Also just because their ordinary state is Real, it doesn't mean they understand every thing.

 

Profound spiritual states of enlightenment are indeed Real, but are totally unnecessary for humanity in general.   And certainly the spiritual monkeys who play with them really are quite disgusting and just use them to avoid their own lives or to badmouth ordinary mankind.   They create mafia-like enclaves in their traditions, ensuring only the most stupid students become the "Grandmaster", in fact their actions ensure the rapid death of any light there was in short order.

 

And it has been going on for a long time so it is hard to remember the truth.   Humanity has been taught to hate himself and so he falls into bad ways and searches endlessly for the answer.   It is right to look to spirituality for answers, but not in the ordinary way.

 

 

Edited January 9, 2019 by rideforever

[Everything]

Are you gonna change it, or accept it?

And if you're gonna change it, how are you gonna change it?

*don't peak for the answer*

"By accepting it."

Cheater...

[Lost in Translation]

46 minutes ago, rideforever said:

it's the appropriate consciousness for humans

 

I think you are on to something.

[Everything]

19 minutes ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

I think you are on to something.

I think so too. 

[rideforever]

Oh yeah, let's say something about the e.g.o.

 

The ego is what is left after you have been taught to hate yourself by everyone around you, who were taught to hate themselves.   Who try to be better themselves and not sin and be good, and lurve everyone and hug diseased people and all nonsense.

 

After so much assault, a normal human being doesn't know who he is.   He doesn't know that the thoughts in his head are his, or that his feelings are his, he may not even know his gender or species.

 

This is the ego.

 

After you are smashed to pieces, then all the other monkeys (who are themselves in a poor state) .... say :

see I told you so.

 

My god.

 

And then the mf-ing Buddhists get on their high horses about the evils of the ego and how we must kill it and become nobody.   How much more nobody can you get, you are already nobody, that's the problem.   

The ego is when there is nobody.

 

I would just like to profoundly apologise to anyone who has the misfortune to be born in the land of the lost.

 

Edited January 8, 2019 by rideforever

[Zen Pig]

1 hour ago, rideforever said:

Humanity has been taught to hate himself and so he falls into bad ways and searches endlessly for the answer. 

yes indeed.

I always wonder why one would seclude themselves from the world for most of there lives, searching for something that has always been right here. 

No judgement for folks who have gone into caves for several years in order to get something that is an "itch on the back of there neck" so to speak.  

But then comes the folks who say that food is bad, to starve yourself, sex is of course the worst, as it drains our energy, and makes bad karma. (which i take umbrage too, as my "bad karma" has produced 8 great children, and many grand children, who look like they will be vastly better people than I am- so fuck that idea).

So you don't eat meat, don't drink a cold beer, don't fuck, don't dance, or laugh, or play, you just sit and really hide from the world. 

Not knocking folks who do go into seclusion for a few years,  as I really get the work on  long meditation in order to break things loose and see what we need to see, but to make it a nest we can hide away from the world in, is not my cup of tea. (not that I drink tea, but sounds better than "my mug of beer")

 

[Everything]

You must wonder, what they have found in that cave, that makes them want to stay there so much.

 

Usually, it is an animalistic understanding, that is far greater than any food or sex a common man has ever had. They do not fear the world. They fear for the world. They fear of themselves for the world. 

 

But I don't know any of these people who live in caves, who eventually don't attempt to seduce someone of like mind or compatible nature to live with them.

 

Bird of same feather, flock together.

 

All freedom eventually desires companionship, someone to share that joy of their freedom with.

Edited January 8, 2019 by Everything

[Lost in Translation]

31 minutes ago, Zen Pig said:

Not knocking folks who do go into seclusion for a few years,  as I really get the work on  long meditation in order to break things loose and see what we need to see, but to make it a nest we can hide away from the world in, is not my cup of tea.

 

"to make it a nest we can hide away from the world in"...

 

Beautiful way to say it. Like many things, spirit may start with a yearning and end up clinging.

 

"to make it a nest we can hide away from the world in"...

 

I shall remember this.

[Zen Pig]

19 minutes ago, Everything said:

Usually, it is an animalistic understanding, that is far greater than any food or sex a common man has ever had

as I stated a few time's in my post, i have no problem with people doing this.  But being a newbie in meditation compared to folks who have meditated for most of there lives secluded in caves or huts, all I can reflect on is my own experience. could be completely wrong. 

But.. I don't see this idea as being mutually exclusive.  for me, sex, food, living life is not excluded from being enlightened or seeing behind the curtain.  that's all I got.  

[Everything]

 

6 minutes ago, Zen Pig said:

as I stated a few time's in my post, i have no problem with people doing this.  But being a newbie in meditation compared to folks who have meditated for most of there lives secluded in caves or huts, all I can reflect on is my own experience. could be completely wrong. 

But.. I don't see this idea as being mutually exclusive.  for me, sex, food, living life is not excluded from being enlightened or seeing behind the curtain.  that's all I got.  

Well, the point is that you cannot get it wrong. You never did get wrong, and never will.

[Everything]

29 minutes ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

"to make it a nest we can hide away from the world in"...

 

Beautiful way to say it. Like many things, spirit may start with a yearning and end up clinging.

 

"to make it a nest we can hide away from the world in"...

 

I shall remember this.

There's nothing wrong with clinging, if that's what you wish. Just do make sure you go 100% for it, and not partially, but all the way. When you are gonna cling unto something that is far greater than all that you have ever known, don't be surprised when it suddenly appears even better than all that you have ever possibly been capable of dreaming about. Joy is there to be allowed, and cast thy knowing away, clean thy mind, and tend to the fertility of thy body. Otherwise it's gonna still be good, but your experience of it? ...Not so much. ...And even tho that train would be leaving, there is always another. And another. And another. And another. Evermore.

Edited January 8, 2019 by Everything

[mrpasserby]

I

1 hour ago, rideforever said:

Buddhists get on their high horses about the evils of the ego and how we must kill it and become nobody.   How much more nobody can you get, you are already nobody, that's the problem.   

The ego is when there is nobody.

 

I would just like to profoundly apologise to anyone who has the misfortune to be born in the land of the lost.

Your posts are always striking and to the point.

In my experience I can only point at priest craft as a general world problem and not specifically any group. The few individual Buddhists that I have interacted with have earned my deep respect.

 

Spoiler

Visit to a western monastery

 

 

 

 

 

[bax44]

Op makes some good points but presents it in the same vague manner as the “spiritual monkeys” he rails against. What I mean is, your thoughts are just as confusing and layered as theirs. “Spirituality is the right place to look for answers, but not in the ordinary way”.. and “it’s hard to remember the truth(of humanity)”

 

... and there’s no explanation of what he means. I’d love if the op could expand or clarify on these quotes, just off the top of my head. I’m genuinely curious because I happen to agree with your general idea(I think) but theres not a lot of clarity in some of your writing. (at least to me)

Edited January 9, 2019 by bax44

[rideforever]

6 hours ago, bax44 said:

. I’d love

 

Spiritual monkeys are humans that are in spiritual groups.

Spirituality is the right place to look into for the answers to the human problems because in fact they caused them by making mankind distrust himself, and promising all sorts of big sounding things like enlightenment and making great hatred for the "material world" or "sin" or "vasana" and all sorts of other nasty words which is basically aimed hatred at ordinary people.   

 

Eventually and over thousands of years the ordinary people have been conned by the seemed eruditeness of these spiritual people and have agreed to hate themselves, their normal ordinary selves given by god.

 

God made them, but instead of receiving themselves and living as they are, as they are meant to with all their love and light naturally emanating .... they are pressured by the spiritual to detest everything they do, the "worldly life" their "thinking mind", their "emotions", such ugly hatred for these simple things are sprayed by the spiritual people, who like I said are mostly very stupid people who don't work and so have too much time on their hands and don't contribute.

 

Because it has been going on for such a long time, and mankind is ever furiously looking to "solve" his problems .... problems that he doesn't actually have except having been taught to hate himself .... it has become so ingrained to be like this that it is hard to remember the goodness and naturalness and Holiness of his natural ordinary self.   

 

And this is why sometimes you meet people who are completely not connected to any spiritual ideas (positive or negative) and they live out their lives like the salt of the earth, and perhaps they are the best and most holy on the Earth.

 

It is certainly good to sit down with a candle and return to your natural being.   And that's it.   That is the entire spiritual instruction.

 

Of course we are looking in a situation where many people seem to have been quite disturbed by such shenanigans for long time, so how easy is it to return, I don't know.   

But my point is the human is essentially sound and holy meaning permanent.   But he is also sensitive and vulnerable so ... that has other implications.

 

It may be right for some souls to enter the deep awakenings, but not for many.   

Probably the best seekers realised this and refused to teach, and only the complete twats taught and this led to the damaging of ordinary people.

 

Any spiritual teacher should thus put large barriers in front of the student and redirect them to the goodness of their ordinary life .... if they even remember it without the brainwashing.

 

For instance, it is not natural to watch violence on TV, neither to be negative for any reason, neither to begin any sermonising with an attack on other people.   These are all unnatural acts.   Likewise the indulgence in pleasures, or the overindulgence on eating other creatures, nor the overestimation of sex, neither stealing is natural, nor not giving.  
These things are all corruptions and not normal.

 

But anyway, I am not 100% sure I am right.   As humans are somewhat vulnerable and sensitive, they could all do with strengthening.   And of course today we are looking downstream several thousand years.
Nevertheless it is good to know.

 

Further:

The main tasks for a human are the  cleaning and wielding of both ancient-subconscious-animal part and the new conscious-mind, and integration.   Plus positive attitude to life.   That would result in a healthy holy being in short order, and a powerful being who is whole.

 

It would probably be very bad for nature if too many humans entered deep spiritual states it is just not natural nor necessary, only some trees are big, some small, some red, some green.   Making a mess of things only brings damage to nature and it would be strongly resisted by all forces sent by God to keep things in balance.

 

Edited January 9, 2019 by rideforever

[mrpasserby]

13 hours ago, rideforever said:

The main tasks for a human are the  cleaning and wielding of both ancient-subconscious-animal part and the new conscious-mind, and integration.   Plus positive attitude to life.   That would result in a healthy holy being in short order, and a powerful being who is whole.

Thanks, I have never read it put so simple and clear.