Non-dual awareness is without attributes. But what about Love?

[dwai]

5 hours ago, Everything said:

It might stir up a hornest nest from your point of view, because you can feel that your own greater non-physical consciousness does not FULLY agree with that statement, that your greater consciousness is "not affected" by anything. Infact, completely the opposite! You might say, yes, from your non-physical greater knowing, there is no vulnerability, no insecurity or worry, but that doesn't mean it will forever more benefit from the expansion that is due to YOUR PHYSICAL LIFE that you are living here!

Er...actually it is a matter of observation. Often this type of discussion leads people to greater vehemence than even utterances of "love".. 

 

5 hours ago, Everything said:

And that is why it is so valuable to allow your connection to your greater non-physical knowing, to begin to realise all the good things you have created for yourself through your living here in this contrasting variety that is of your physical life, that has caused YOU to expand and become more.

Okay...I'm assuming you are making a general statement here

Yes...we need to expand beyond our limited body-mind constructs. The way to do that is to understand what we are NOT first...peel away the layers of the proverbial onion until the core is known (which is Pure Being/Pure Awareness). From there we can expand beyond the local body/mind. But the main work is in uncovering and realizing the Pure Awareness as being our own true nature. 

 

We don't need elaborate alchemical processes to do that. Those are good for stilling the mind. Once the mind is still, it becomes like a clear lake and we can see the base/bottom. Then the idea is to proceed as that unaffected awareness that underlies every thing (all knowing). 

Quote

Rest of your post was too difficult to read - I'm being direct with you because I think your feathers don't get so easily ruffled...

I think you do have a lot of valuable insights, but may I request that you please unabashedly use paragraphs in your writing? My head reels when I see your posts because all i see is a jumble of words. 

 

[Everything]

15 minutes ago, dwai said:

Er...actually it is a matter of observation. Often this type of discussion leads people to greater vehemence than even utterances of "love".. 

 

Okay...I'm assuming you are making a general statement here

Yes...we need to expand beyond our limited body-mind constructs. The way to do that is to understand what we are NOT first...peel away the layers of the proverbial onion until the core is known (which is Pure Being/Pure Awareness). From there we can expand beyond the local body/mind. But the main work is in uncovering and realizing the Pure Awareness as being our own true nature. 

 

We don't need elaborate alchemical processes to do that. Those are good for stilling the mind. Once the mind is still, it becomes like a clear lake and we can see the base/bottom. Then the idea is to proceed as that unaffected awareness that underlies every thing (all knowing). 

I think you do have a lot of valuable insights, but may I request that you please unabashedly use paragraphs in your writing? My head reels when I see your posts because all i see is a jumble of words. 

 

I'll do my best for you then 

 

So you are already expanded beyond your "limited" (it's not limited... It's really not...) body-mind construct. You don't need to expand, that's what I'm saying. You are already expanded, you are expanding, you have always been expanding, and you will forevermore be expanding. You will only ever create more forgetfulness and limitation, by trying to be somewhere where or somewhen you are not, and thereby creating the illusion that you are being somewhere and somewhen you are not, when in reality you will always be here and now, as all is here and now is forever.

 

So again, to quote the quote you quoted, that is why it is so important to allow your connection to your greater non-physical knowing that you always have acces to here and now, and that you ARE always connected to here and now, and that you can NEVER be disconnected from, ever... Untill the doctors announce you dead, in which case you have fully re-emerged into full blown realisation of all that you have truely become and will become evermore.

There are however, as long as you are physically focused here, degrees of allowed connection, to your greater non-physical consciousness, or not. And your full alignment of you (physical) and YOU (non-physical), which is actually your true natural default state of being, is indicated by the emotions of love and joy and freedom and appreciation and knowledge and empowerment. Your greater allowed alignment is indicated by those positive emotions, and lesser alignment indicated by those negative emotions.

So to understand that this primary manifestation of your emotions, is what can always help you and guide you, AND IS DOING SO always here and now, to your full allowance of that ever so more fully allowed alignment of you (physical) and YOU (non-physical). Even all the way into extacy and rapturous bliss.

 

You see, your non-physical greater consciousness has never, and will never, offer any thought that causes "seperation" (seperation is too strong of a word) a "pinching" or "lesser allowance of that connection" EVER. Your non-physical YOU will NEVER forgive you, BECAUSE IT HAS NEVER BLAMED YOU FOR ANYTHING! Does this make more sense?

Edited January 10, 2019 by Everything

[dwai]

25 minutes ago, Everything said:

I'll do my best for you then 

 

So you are already expanded beyond your "limited" (it's not limited... It's really not...) body-mind construct. You don't need to expand, that's what I'm saying. You are already expanded, you are expanding, you have always been expanding, and you will forevermore be expanding. You will only ever create more forgetfulness and limitation, by trying to be somewhere where or somewhen you are not, and thereby creating the illusion that you are being somewhere and somewhen you are not, when in reality you will always be here and now, as all is here and now is forever.

 

So again, to quote the quote you quoted, that is why it is so important to allow your connection to your greater non-physical knowing that you always have acces to here and now, and that you ARE always connected to here and now, and that you can NEVER be disconnected from, ever... Untill the doctors announce you dead, in which case you have fully re-emerged into full blown realisation of all that you have truely become and will become evermore.

Agreed. We are never not that . 

In fact nothing ever really happens...but that is just too much for most human minds to comprehend, given that we seem to exist in space and time, and appear to have a beginning and an end. 

25 minutes ago, Everything said:

There are however, as long as you are physically focused here, degrees of allowed connection, to your greater non-physical consciousness, or not. And your full alignment of you (physical) and YOU (non-physical), which is actually your true natural default state of being, is indicated by the emotions of love and joy and freedom and appreciation and knowledge and empowerment. Your greater allowed alignment is indicated by those positive emotions, and lesser alignment indicated by those negative emotions.

So to understand that this primary manifestation of your emotions, is what can always help you and guide you, AND IS DOING SO always here and now, to your full allowance of that ever so more fully allowed alignment of you (physical) and YOU (non-physical). Even all the way into extacy and rapturous bliss.

The physical “you” is just an appearance within the non-physical you. In fact, the entire universe also is just an appearance, a mirage, a play of name and form, that we take so seriously. The “you” that really is, is by itself ecstasy and bliss, love and joy,  unattached and ever free. 

25 minutes ago, Everything said:

You see, your non-physical greater consciousness has never, and will never, offer any thought that causes "seperation" (seperation is too strong of a word) a "pinching" or "lesser allowance of that connection" EVER. Your non-physical YOU will NEVER forgive you, BECAUSE IT HAS NEVER BLAMED YOU FOR ANYTHING! Does this make more sense?

There is no question of forgiving. How can there even be? 

 

For example if you fall asleep and dream that you are serial killer and responsible for the murder of hundreds of people. When you wake up and remember that dream, would you forgive yourself or just say “wow that was a terrible nightmare”?

 

its the same with the non dual awareness. There is nothing to forgive as there is no culprit  

[Everything]

29 minutes ago, dwai said:

Agreed. We are never not that . 

In fact nothing ever really happens...but that is just too much for most human minds to comprehend, given that we seem to exist in space and time, and appear to have a beginning and an end. 

The physical “you” is just an appearance within the non-physical you. In fact, the entire universe also is just an appearance, a mirage, a play of name and form, that we take so seriously. The “you” that really is, is by itself ecstasy and bliss, love and joy,  unattached and ever free. 

That's beautiful. Yes. Illusion can be used to describe physical reality, however, it doesn't mean that you necessarily have to experience it as the illusion of hard unchangable unmoldable "knock on wood" reality.

I would love to experience a more fluid nature of reality. More magical. But trying to make it happen, is like trying to change the  reflection in the mirror, not realising we are the source of it. So often, when we just allow ourselves to feel better, it will always be so that all we desire just naturally manifests for us through the path of least resistance.

 

illi

pronounced eelaay, or eelee, is a word for Mirror in another language. I like that word and the sound of it. It resonates with me. It always reminds of that word illusion, and that it can be a beautiful thing aswell.

Reflection is what we see.

This reality reflects our state of being, and often people try to change the reflection, not knowing that they are the source of it.

And often we can know what we are doing with our own energy in motion, by virtue of knowing how it is we feel in any given moment, that indicates wether or not we are allowing our everbecoming to be reflected to us in the way that it is always truely ment to be doing so.

 

Consciousness creates resonances within oneself so as to experience itself as appart from itself.

It is a way that existance has of experiencing itself in all the ways that it can.

 

Or like the prime radiant. Nothing exists outside of it, and thus it is infinitely free to move at infinite speed. So fast, that it can appear to be beside oneself. So we're actually looking at ourselves, as we're creating all of this. And that usually becomes more appearant when one feels absolutely blissfull all of the time. The natural freedom of the consciousness then is allowed more fully.

Edited January 10, 2019 by Everything

[dwai]

"illi" means "right here" in another language...

[Everything]

2 minutes ago, dwai said:

"illi" means "right here" in another language...

right here and now. Really? Which language?

 

Hey wait a minute. What does your name mean?

Edited January 10, 2019 by Everything

[Everything]

I always love these moments of god realised being. 

[dwai]

3 minutes ago, Everything said:

right here and now. Really? Which language?

Kannada...a south indian language 

3 minutes ago, Everything said:

Hey wait a minute. What does your name mean?

 It is a shortened version of Dwaipayan...means "born on an island"  

[Everything]

6 minutes ago, dwai said:

Kannada...a south indian language 

 It is a shortened version of Dwaipayan...means "born on an island"  

Cool I like it, sounds exotic.

The same ancient language I mentioned greeted one another by saying "Shivai!" meaning "Stand out of my way, I am following my highest excitement!" 

It sounds like Dwai. 

Interesting that illi means here in south indian. Cause all reflection happens through here and now. Fun synchronisity.

Edited January 10, 2019 by Everything

[Everything]

OMFG I just realised that is not even an actual greeting! 

 

That must mean that the only way they ever came into contact with one another is when their path's crossed, and both wanted, IN EVERY SINGLE CASE, ALWAYS wanted eachother to get out of one another's way! 

 

They cared about nothing but to follow their highest excitement. What a fun kind of civilization that must've been.

 

They don't even talk to one another, just gettouta my way!  wtf... is that 

 

It reminds me of people who are in a hurry in traffic and then they honk at eachother. 

Imagine if we all started greeting eachother "Toot"  ... "Oh toot to you aswell!" 

 

Edited January 10, 2019 by Everything

[Jeff]

My view on it is summed up in Chapter 25 of the Tao Te Ching...

 

25
Something mysteriously formed, 
Born before heaven and Earth. 
In the silence and the void, 
Standing alone and unchanging, 
Ever present and in motion. 
Perhaps it is the mother of ten thousand things. 
I do not know its name 
Call it Tao. 
For lack of a better word, I call it great.

Being great, it flows 
I flows far away. 
Having gone far, it returns.

Therefore, "Tao is great; 
Heaven is great; 
Earth is great; 
The king is also great." 
These are the four great powers of the universe, 
And the king is one of them.

Man follows Earth. 
Earth follows heaven. 
Heaven follows the Tao. 
Tao follows what is natural.

 

There is a natural flow. Concepts of love are more about Man following Earth (or oneness). It is a great power, but not the Tao.  The Tao itself follows what is natural, and if one was to attempt to define that natural, it would be more something like "growth/expansion" or "realization of potential".

[Everything]

3 hours ago, Jeff said:

My view on it is summed up in Chapter 25 of the Tao Te Ching...

 

25
Something mysteriously formed, 
Born before heaven and Earth. 
In the silence and the void, 
Standing alone and unchanging, 
Ever present and in motion. 
Perhaps it is the mother of ten thousand things. 
I do not know its name 
Call it Tao. 
For lack of a better word, I call it great.

Being great, it flows 
I flows far away. 
Having gone far, it returns.

Therefore, "Tao is great; 
Heaven is great; 
Earth is great; 
The king is also great." 
These are the four great powers of the universe, 
And the king is one of them.

Man follows Earth. 
Earth follows heaven. 
Heaven follows the Tao. 
Tao follows what is natural.

 

There is a natural flow. Concepts of love are more about Man following Earth (or oneness). It is a great power, but not the Tao.  The Tao itself follows what is natural, and if one was to attempt to define that natural, it would be more something like "growth/expansion" or "realization of potential".

Tao follows what is natural. What is natural? The path of least resistance.

 

Tao is prime radiant. As an analogy, Imagine one particle, there exists nothing but this. In an endless void. It is infinitely free. Thus infinitely fast. It is so fast, that it can appear to be beside itself. And thus, you have all of creation, including the physical universe that you see here.

You are thus made up of Tao.

 

Returning to the path. Tao follows what is natural. It speaks to the ever abbounding flow of the ever abbounding stream of well-being that is the Source of All Creation. That calls us forward, evermore, into our ever greater becoming.

 

The path of least resistance is described as love. What is natural is described as love. Love is not Tao. Love is just a word. But the emotion, energy in motion, that one can feel and uses the word "love" to describe this emotion, is an indication that your energy is on this path of least resistance, that is going with the stream of the every abbounding well being that is the Source of All Creation.

 

Going against this current, one can feel that as negative emotion, as the primary manifestation, and indication of the resistance of their Physical state of being. This emotion is always a perfect and accurate indication of the relationship between you (physical) and YOU (non-physical). Indicating your state of allowing or resistance. Positive emotion or negative emotion.

 

It is like a river you are in. You can swim upstream, and struggle for a while. When you let go, you go with the flow again. And you allow all that is well and weller for you ever more. All the things you want come to you, and mostly you enjoy the journey, cause that's the point. And luckily, it's never gonna end.

 

Because you are eternal. You are all of existance. As all of existance is you. As all is here and now is forever.

 

You are the leading edge in all of creation. You are the furthest most extension of that which you call Tao.

 

You are always connected to Tao, as you are it. As a non-physical greater consciousness, you have set into motion this entire physical universe and planet, long before you were born. By giving thought to it. Thought that is thought upon long enough, become form. And this expands ongoingly. Untill you see all that you see here before you. But more than your physical you, you are still this non-physical consciousness, that holds all of your greater knowing for you ever more, of infinite intelligence, and beams it to you ever more.

 

The way to allow this connection to your greater knowing, is understanding your relationship betwen you (physical) and YOU (non-physical). The way to understand it is to allow it. The way to allow it, is to feel better, or to release resistance. Doing what is natural, as Tao does. It is natural to feel better. It is natural to want to feel better. Infact, anything you have ever wanted, is because you thought you would feel better in the having of it.

 

If one learns the art of allowing, or wei wu wei, one can do nothing, and thus then leave nothing undone. Forevermore, unyielding satisfaction, of endless personal manifested desires, allowed, ever greater realisation. Doing what is natural, is doing what feels good. Doing what feels better, is the path of least resistance. Lesser resistance. Releasing resistance. The Art of Allowing. The Art of Deliberate Creation. etc.

 

To feel better, is to consciously and deliberately allow your greater connection, physical you, to your greater non-physical consciousness and knowing. And this thus then radiates out throughout your life, and manifests outward in all directions, evermore.

Edited January 10, 2019 by Everything

[manitou]

18 hours ago, dawei said:

 

 

I think all this talk in the topic, which is rather fascinating, but what is truly awareness?  

 

 

 

 

 

Not sure words can describe Awareness, but I look at it as being aware that we're the ones who are the blackboards on which we write our lives in chalk.  I think from a certain perspective, it's the witness state; both witnessing our physical selves from a higher perch, and realizing that we're an essential part of  the one life. 

 

And I just noticed last night that cannabis brings on an instant witness state, lol.   It's like you separate in two without trying.

 

(It was some really good shit...) 

[voidisyinyang]

On 1/9/2019 at 6:28 PM, Everything said:

So then, I suggest, bare foot on sand in beach water. Can't imagine a more electromagnetic neutral zone to reset the electro magnetic of the body. Also see how people who grow old, always extremely healthy, when they often make barefoot walks on the edge of the water at the beach.

 

yes the Lunar psychic yin qi energy is without substance and the Moon governs life on Earth through electrogravitic energy - so this female yin energy is what John Chang describes as more like gravity - like time as in the past. So as the Po Soul creates "ghost pollution" as Master Ni,Hua-ching calls it - then our emotional blockages pull down the Shen in our bodies - as our shen clings to our left brain dominant 3D spacetime.

 

So love as joy is what Mahayana Buddhism calls the realm of Form - as bliss-joy - as the highest level of tantra - and so through bliss you can EMPTY out the realm of Desire and open  up the Heart as true joy that has just a taste of Yuan Qi. So then tantra is a catalyst but still stuck in the realm of Form - with a visual attachment to love as the Goddess. So only logical inference as LISTENING - not visual - then allows entry into the realm of the Formless.

 

This is beyond the joy of the heart but it is accessed THROUGH the joy of the heart. So the yuan shen is the left side of the heart just as our left-side vagus nerve goes down the front of our bodies to our heart - to regulate our mammalian emotions and so to increase our joy. But to go beyond joy into Unconditional Love then requires a deep right-side vagus nerve kundalini activation - only enabled by building up the Yin Qi  until the lower tan t'ien is full.

 

This is called "Laying the Foundation" and requires returning the life force yin qi energy back to the age of a 16 year old - full of vitality. So most people never achieve this goal - and this path then is achieved when a person takes up meditation as a younger age. And so once the yuan qi is activated as Nirvikalpa Samadhi, as Ramana Maharshi achieved at the age of 16 - then the path requires STAYING in Nirvikalpa Samadhi until the mind goes beyond the death of the heart - literally. That enables "eternal liberation" as the cutting of the knot of the yuan shen - via the left brain thinking mind - to the Yuan Qi on the right side of the heart.

 

So then Unconditional Love is the Yuan Qi directly beyond death of the mind and body - but accessed via the right side of the heart, via the deep bliss of the right side vagus nerve connection to the lower tan tien yin qi energy that is the foundation of the training and so has to be maintained through celibacy.

[dwai]

Let us look at the topic from the perspective of the 5 properties of any object, and find out why Prema (Love) is an intrinsic nature of Brahman/Atman/Pure Awareness.

 

Any object has five aspects -- Asti, Bhati, Priyam, Nama and Rupa. Of these we normally only consider the Asti and the "Nama Rupa" aspect (which are in the domain of jagat/material or transactional world). However Asti which indicates existence, Bhati which indicates the effulgence/illumination by and in awareness, and priyam  indicates the desirability of the object (I like or I don't like), are not considered explicitly in our transactional reality. But this priyam or "desirability",  when understood in the right context leads us through a path as follows  --

 

Quote

Priyam – ‘I like it’ or ‘I don’t like it’.  Every object has priyatvam, desirability, the status of being desirable.  Priyam stands for ānanda hetutvam, the cause of happiness: even though the object is not the source of happiness it serves as the instrument that triggers pleasure, for the ānanda (joy/bliss) to come up. The word ‘priyam’ stands for fullness, limitlessness. 

(source -- https://www.advaita-vision.org/becoming-oneselfpart-22/)

 

 

So, while Nama Rupa are the jagat aspect, Asti, Bhati, Priyam actually lead us to Brahman as they are of the nature of Brahman (Brahmarūpam).  Therefore we can see that Prema (which is analogous with Priyam) is an intrinsic nature of Brahman.

Edited January 11, 2019 by dwai

[Mudfoot]

20 hours ago, manitou said:

 

 

And I just noticed last night that cannabis brings on an instant witness state, lol.   It's like you separate in two without trying.

 

(It was some really good shit...) 

Cold water in the ear (caloric test) gives some people that kind of experience. 

[manitou]

1 hour ago, Mudfoot said:

Cold water in the ear (caloric test) gives some people that kind of experience. 

 

I prefer going to a party with a bit of cannabis rather than going to a party where people are putting water in their ears.  Am I missing something?  

[Everything]

On 1/11/2019 at 4:03 PM, voidisyinyang said:

 

yes the Lunar psychic yin qi energy is without substance and the Moon governs life on Earth through electrogravitic energy - so this female yin energy is what John Chang describes as more like gravity - like time as in the past. So as the Po Soul creates "ghost pollution" as Master Ni,Hua-ching calls it - then our emotional blockages pull down the Shen in our bodies - as our shen clings to our left brain dominant 3D spacetime.

 

So love as joy is what Mahayana Buddhism calls the realm of Form - as bliss-joy - as the highest level of tantra - and so through bliss you can EMPTY out the realm of Desire and open  up the Heart as true joy that has just a taste of Yuan Qi. So then tantra is a catalyst but still stuck in the realm of Form - with a visual attachment to love as the Goddess. So only logical inference as LISTENING - not visual - then allows entry into the realm of the Formless.

 

This is beyond the joy of the heart but it is accessed THROUGH the joy of the heart. So the yuan shen is the left side of the heart just as our left-side vagus nerve goes down the front of our bodies to our heart - to regulate our mammalian emotions and so to increase our joy. But to go beyond joy into Unconditional Love then requires a deep right-side vagus nerve kundalini activation - only enabled by building up the Yin Qi  until the lower tan t'ien is full.

 

This is called "Laying the Foundation" and requires returning the life force yin qi energy back to the age of a 16 year old - full of vitality. So most people never achieve this goal - and this path then is achieved when a person takes up meditation as a younger age. And so once the yuan qi is activated as Nirvikalpa Samadhi, as Ramana Maharshi achieved at the age of 16 - then the path requires STAYING in Nirvikalpa Samadhi until the mind goes beyond the death of the heart - literally. That enables "eternal liberation" as the cutting of the knot of the yuan shen - via the left brain thinking mind - to the Yuan Qi on the right side of the heart.

 

So then Unconditional Love is the Yuan Qi directly beyond death of the mind and body - but accessed via the right side of the heart, via the deep bliss of the right side vagus nerve connection to the lower tan tien yin qi energy that is the foundation of the training and so has to be maintained through celibacy.

Yeah but those thoughts of love are not without form, they are full of form, and will be the ever more fuller form of all that is to be evermore. Your non-physical being is not of less form than all that you have allowed yourself to be in this life. It is ever so more fuller and ever so more fuller fullest form of all that you have to truely become as a result of your having lived in this physical life experience, that you may call the "lesser" form. Thus then you can allow the greater form ever more to be realised by you, through your thoughts of love, or through the guidance of your emotions that let you know wether you are allowing your fuller form or not. 

 

That is thus then always the catalyst of your ever allowing of your ever greater becoming of who it is you truely are ment to be the ever becoming of ever more.

Edited January 13, 2019 by Everything

[voidisyinyang]

On 1/13/2019 at 5:46 AM, Everything said:

 form,  form,   form  form  the "lesser" form.  your fuller form or not.

yes you can study the book "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality" for the secret of the Form of the Formless. In western science it's called "noncommutative phase" or complementary opposites. This is an ancient science of alchemy. https://archive.org/stream/TaoistYogaAlchemyAndImmortalityLuKuanYCharlesLuk/Taoist Yoga Alchemy and Immortality Lu K’uan Yü (Charles Luk)_djvu.txt

[3bob]

On 1/8/2019 at 3:53 PM, dwai said:

https://www.medhajournal.com/non-dual-awareness-is-without-attributes-but-what-about-love/

 

In Saivite terms Shakti is Love, and Siva can never be disconnected from Shakti!  (which is unconditional, beyond karma, ego,  and the dictates of purely human reasoning abilities,  thus Love is joined with revealing Grace,   beyond normal understanding, or any forms of mental containment and dissection)

Edited January 16, 2019 by 3bob