The Evolution of a spiritual douche bag

[Lost in Translation]

2 minutes ago, Zen Pig said:

Don't see this as someone "walking over this cop, or masochistically action"..  I can't tell anyone what real love is... but I know it when I see it.

 

I don't see it that way at all. The cop was a hero.

 

Now imagine that the same man climbed the same cliff a week later and once more threatened to jump. And imagine the same cop arrived again. Would he risk his life twice to save the boy? What about a third time, or a fourth?

 

At some point the boy would drag the cop off the cliff. This is what I am calling masochistic. And if at some point the cop simply lets the boy go... well, that is not unconditional, is it?

[Spotless]

On 1/10/2019 at 7:45 AM, Zen Pig said:

Discussion this am with real person.

Today's modern spiritual teacher, (well,,, a good percentage of them),  have probably had, at some time in there lives,  some kind of profound seeing or knowing, or "ah-ha" moment where what they thought they were, the world was, life was,  fundamentally changed for a brief period of time. 

This kind of direct experience is nothing special,  in my experience, and with folks who have a daily long term meditation practice. 

 

Like most people, this kind of experience is transforming, but soon our thinking mind kicks back in attempting to analyze just what happened, and whether or not we can "make" it happen again. 

Depending on our own personality, we might spend years trying to get that initial experience back,  without success, until we just give up and stop trying, and then many will again have deeper and more interesting openings into this suchness of life.

 

once again, our thinking mind, our ego pop's back up , and we now think, "wow, I have had several amazing experiences,  I must tell others about this,  maybe become a teacher so I can help others see what I saw" - so good, so far.......

 

Now this person, who use to just go sit somewhere, or have there own spiritual practice is now teaching other folks,  many of whom , come to this teacher with deep seated issues, deep insecurity, a need to belong, or a need to have someone to follow.  The new spiritual teacher has given up his/her job, and says, "well, in order to help as many people as I can, i have to charge money so I can do this full time"........

 

Now this teacher has a career,  so now, the original teaching of "just drop all ideas about what you think you want or need and just go sit" is to simple because the new seekers need to hear talk, hear about experiences, hear things that will make them feel good. have someone to follow, to believe in. 

 

Many of these  seekers who are depending on this new teacher to "Make there life ok"  now fluff up the new teachers ass, with worship, sex favors,  lots of money,  which at this point the new teacher is now the old teacher, and has rationalized that he/she is sill helping these poor students by just his/her spiritual energy or power.  seekers spend thousands on retreats, books, and never ending arguing about the "true way to become enlightened, immortal, awakened, and the original practice,  just like the sitting cushion that was purchased years ago, are both sitting in a closet collecting dust.  Amazing times.  

This has been going on for all of written history.

 

In many cases those that became teachers were asked to teach by their teachers - even when it was very clear to the Awakened Teacher that the student was not Awakened.

 

Most teachers of History were not present when the history was made and most teachers are not Awakened and certainly not Enlightened in the broader sense - so they teach from their “historical experiences”. It’s messy business on both sides - history teachers tell a politically correct partial story even if it’s partly politically incorrect - it’s still within the parameters of passable within the immediate culture.

 

I’m not disagreeing with the original post - but it’s not new. 

 

Its also notable - go attend a free class at many of these venues and you will see students working their cell phones while the teacher is speaking. 

 

I dont charge for classes and so far have not encountered this type of behavior - but aloof and often cocky students drift in and out - and this would be easily remedied by charging for classes.

 

i once knew a person who charged double for students over 40 - and he did it for A pretty good reason - he wanted only older students that were really dedicated to actually changing - their programs were also longer and harder - and it is true - older students are more often like hardened epoxy - they are VERY imbedded in their stories, mind loops and personhood.

 

What is heartening in all of this is that there are more and more and more real Awakened teachers happening all over the world and they are diverse and incredible.

 

And many of the lesser teachers that you speak of are ardent followers of these emerging Awakened teachers. 

 

Some people like to teach - even if they don’t really know what they are talking about - and often they are great for the group they attract.

 

Its a bit like taking a group of cats for a walk - humans are a messy discordant bunch who get tired of it and settle on “something” - and most want to pay something in order to at least create the impression that it has value and is not some inept kids program.

 

For the very vast majority- those seeking Awakening do Not want to Awaken.

 

 

 

[Zen Pig]

18 hours ago, manitou said:

ZenPig, you said that this morning you had a discussion with a real person.  I'm assuming he fancied himself a teacher of sorts because he had a type of awakening?  What got you to thinking about this? 

I started looking at the new spiritual non-duality scene over the last 10 years ,  about the time Eckhart Tolle and others started to teach folks in the west.  Many of them, had direct experiences that mirrored my own,  but I saw them go from folks who I think really wanted to help others,  to getting absorbed into our culture of greed and power, and getting stained.  Not knocking anyone in particular, as I have seen this happen to many famous spiritual people over the years, and I think it is just being human. 

 

When I first had a so-called "awakening moment",  after the amazing event,  my thinking mind got back in action, along with my ego, and I started to want to tell folks what "the truth" is, and how they should act,  and that I wanted them to view me as something special.

importantly, i did not stop meditating, and looking, so got my egoistic ass handed to me a few times,  so dodged a  bullet on that one.  

[wandelaar]

I think one has to differentiate between unconditional love as a mere feeling (without any implied compulsion to act on it), and real life love that cannot do without acts that prove it's continued existence. 

[Zen Pig]

4 minutes ago, Spotless said:

For the very vast majority- those seeking Awakening do Not want to Awaken.

 

yes.  this is also my experience,  but of course I am not a teacher.

Some of the most vocal, folks who tell others what awaking is,  do not have a spiritual practice, a daily practice of meditation, or some other form of practice for a couple of hours a day, every day.

Not that meditation will cause someone to awaken,  but it seems like it greases the wheel. 

[Spotless]

Someone said in the debate about how Awakening happens and in regard to those that say it is an accident - that “Awakening may be an accident but that practice (meditation) makes one accident prone” and I very much agree.

 

And after Awakening - of the most profound and abiding sort - immense work is still to be had - I generally only teach Qi Gong - since Awakening the weekly daily changes are beyond words and often debilitating still now some six years later. Teaching about Awakening is wonderful if a student seeks this - but with such constant change here, keeping a log of the happening is often about all I’m up to.

 

Personal practice is always so utterly personal- even if it includes thousands or millions of students.

 

Six years since Awakening has been like a day - perhaps in another six i will be teaching. Teachers like students find their way.

 

Like you have stated - some have an experience and mass assumption and premature assessments become a teaching. It happens and it is no reason to get bent out of shape. Also - sometimes it’s hard to see what’s really going on.

 

 

Edited January 13, 2019 by Spotless

[mrpasserby]

On 1/12/2019 at 3:46 PM, Lost in Translation said:

This sounds good at first. From God to humans it is good, but from human to human it's garbage, since it means love without discernment or judgement. It means "you can walk all over me, abuse me and hurt me and I'll still love you," or perhaps it means

Hello, @Lost in Translation: I noticed that we joined thedaobums about the same time, I have read many of your posts, and deeply admired your wisdom and writing skills.

Through cultivation a good portion of which came through thedobums forum, I recently noticed a feeling that I call unconditional love. In my comments about your post I was mainly trying to clarify the point from my current personal perspective about your comment: 'you can walk all over me'. I am a work in progress when it comes to *posting. I post best with long possibly boring examples in the RABBIT hole. 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2019 by mrpasserby

[3bob]

We may begrudge about this or that,  Spirit begrudges not.

 

"The highest form of goodness is like water.

Water knows how to benefit all things

without striving with them.

It stays in places loathed by all men.

Therefore, it comes near Tao..."

 

From the T.T.C. chap. 8