Jadespear Posted January 11, 2019 What is meant by the attainment of the tao? ... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nintendao Posted January 11, 2019 I'd always thought it was the same as what some might call died and went to heaven, except with having cultivated a robust enough energy body to be able to remain fully conscious through the transition and afterwards. I suspect there are deeper levels to it than that though. Spoiler 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paragon Posted January 11, 2019 I'll be very interested to hear what everyone has to say about this. I personally thought of it as being ready to move to a higher realm, with no need to return to the physical plane. But I am very much a n00b to all this so it's entirely possible I completely missed the point. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patrick Brown Posted January 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Jadespear said: What is meant by the attainment of the tao? ... You can't attain to the tao as it's simply what is, intangible and incomprehensible yet... Quote Ever desireless, one can see the mystery. Ever desiring, one sees the manifestations. These two spring from the same source but differ in name; this appears as darkness. Darkness within darkness. The gate to all mystery. Enlightenment is a different kettle-o-fish and not really a daoist concept. 1 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paragon Posted January 11, 2019 24 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said: You can't attain to the tao as it's simply what is, intangible and incomprehensible yet... Perhaps not literally "attainment of the Tao" itself; but naturally there is something to be sought through Taoism; and although I'm sure our search will continue beyond this realm, naturally it must be at least partially attainable in this life, otherwise we're wasting our time in a fruitless search.... So I read the question less literally as "what is the highest goal we could possibly attain through Taoism?" 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patrick Brown Posted January 11, 2019 The tao is the teacher. How to live? Follow the tao. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Saudade Swede Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) It's impossible to attain the Tao since the Tao's not something. It is everything and what gives rise to everything, even thoughts about the Tao. "The Tao" is just what Lao Tzu chose to call "it", but all concepts and words are arbitrary. It is only when one "sheds" one's ego and its assumptions and mental images of the world that one sees the world for what it "truly is". This state is often reached through meditation, and once it is experienced something just "clicks". All inhibitions are gone. One just happens to say the right words at the right time, and there's an immense feeling of harmony and relief. It is a feeling of being exactly where one is supposed to be, for it would literally be impossible to be somewhere else. In order to attain the Tao one must feel it, not think it. Edited January 11, 2019 by Saudade Swede 1 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OldDog Posted January 11, 2019 That's a fair question. The word "attainment" would seem to imply the expending of effort towards some result. But what effort, what result? The Dao is said to be that which underlies and pervades all things, yet is elusive and ineffable. We talk about it all day long, exploring its possibilities in an intellectual sense. But at some point we need to involve in some practice in pursuit of attainment. It is not purely an intellectual pursuit. In fact, intellectualization (in a psychological sense) is probably the exact opposite of attainment. The main goal of Daoist practice is direct experience of the Dao. This is done by abandoning intellectual pursuit of Dao. This is where meditative practice enters the picture. There is much written about the Daoist approach to meditative practice. The Neiye speaks most plainly about this but it is also mentioned, perhaps more cryptically, in Laozi and Chuangzi. Having some intellectual understanding of these texts is useful in orienting one toward the real objective of practice ... experience. Attainment is troublesome in another sense. It suggests completion ... that the end of the road has been reached. But I don't believe this is so. In the end, regardlesss of the success or not of the practice, one still has to return to the world of things. So, it is not a practice that seeks to transcend the world but rather, through direct experience of Dao, leads to a natural harmony with that which underlies and pervades all. One then returns to the world, in accord with Dao, to live out their physical existence. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patrick Brown Posted January 11, 2019 45 minutes ago, OldDog said: So, it is not a practice that seeks to transcend the world but rather, through direct experience of Dao, leads to a natural harmony with that which underlies and pervades all. One then returns to the world, in accord with Dao, to live out their physical existence. Perfectly said. Thank you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wayfarer Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) Nothing is attained because you have it anyway... Sort of. It is a change in understanding, a realisation. Nothing changes and nothing is gained because what is thought to be the receiver and the received are the same. The Dao does not really lie under things. It is everything you are seeing, however, it is possible to see it has in essence 2 faces: an endless presence of silent stillness and also its energy causes the appearance of things. But they are not things, nor are they not not-things. Hence no-thingness. This is different than Buddhist emptiness yet both talk about the same One. If you want to attain the Dao look for the qualities of stillness and silence in things. Then one day you might notice that you are staring at yourself, no-self. It is within you too so you can notice it there too. The more still and silent you become the greater your chance of noticing what is already there, everywhere, quiet and unmoving. When it comes down to it, that's all you need in Daoism; silence and stillness. The rest is unnecessary. Edited January 11, 2019 by Wayfarer 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patrick Brown Posted January 11, 2019 I call this 'stillness in motion'. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted January 11, 2019 To live well centered with a sense of flow. To have grace and shibumi, simplicity and efficiency. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voidisyinyang Posted January 12, 2019 22 hours ago, Jadespear said: What is meant by the attainment of the tao? ... just study the book "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality" - it's like a cook book. You follow the steps. Chapter six is obtainment of the Tao. 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fa Xin Posted January 13, 2019 (edited) Residing in whats happening now Edited January 13, 2019 by Fa Xin thats about it 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bindi Posted January 13, 2019 I'd say by balancing the yin and yang energies in each of the 3 dantians. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jadespear Posted January 13, 2019 Thank you all for your input. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonesboy Posted January 13, 2019 The Tao is emptiness. The One emerges from the Tao. The One is universal mind. Attaining the Tao is reallizing the emptiness of universal mind. One could say that you attain the Tao when you realize universal mind, when you realize emptiness of self. In Taoism it would be the difference between an Immortal and a Ruler Immortal. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
