Buddhist Practices vs Taoist Practices

[2ndchance]

What are the main differences between Buddhist Practices vs Taoist Practices?

 

I have observed that Buddhist Practices focus on analyzing the mind to transform the demons within us while Taoist Practices seem to be more involved in more physical, sexual, energetic practices without indulging in the observation and transformation of one's mind.

 

Maybe I am wrong so I am willing to learn from experienced practitioners here.

[Mudfoot]

4 hours ago, 2ndchance said:

What are the main differences between Buddhist Practices vs Taoist Practices?

The pictures on the altar. 

 

Yes, Mantak Chia's methods might make you slightly genital in your focus, and there are Vipassana groups where you are forbidden to do yoga or qigong, but in between that you will find many practices where you will have a harder time to see the differences. 

[freeform]

Despite it being an extremely popular topic, the authentic Daoist teachings on sex and sexuality represent about 2.5% of the tradition. 

 

The main difference between Buddhist and Daoist practice as I see it - Daoism is more practical. The approach is to prepare the body and mind through working firstly on the physical, then energetic, then consciousness levels. It’s basically a way of making your body-mind extremely efficient, strong, resilient, naturally calm and centred, and full of energy before starting any meditative practice.

 

When you begin meditative training, a lot of what you need to happen, just happens automatically with no effort. Your mind is automatically relatively still and quiet. You have enough energy to sit in perfect posture and concentrate fully for hours on end. You generally progress much faster as all the initial layers of crap are already cleared out.

 

Saying all this, I’ve trained with several Buddhist teachers that approach their training in a similar way. However these are quite rare and unusual. I’ve also met dozens of meditators with many decades of experience - but when you check their meditation all you ‘hear’ is the sedated ‘noise’ of a mind that’s dull and mired in some pleasant trance state.

 

The pitfalls of Daoist practice are many too, of course. Particularly if the base desires are not transformed - then you get people who stray off the spiritual path and blindly feed their base desires (hence all the sex stuff).

[Zen Pig]

6 minutes ago, freeform said:

but when you check their meditation all you ‘hear’ is the sedated ‘noise’ of a mind that’s dull and mired in some pleasant trance state.

wow.  don't know who these "advanced mediators" are,   but from my experience,  meditation,  is a bridge to both the physical body,(focus breath work, hiking in the hills, etc)  the earth, and everything unfolding in this moment.  nothing is left out.  don't go into a "mindless trance" just see thoughts as part of the whole, so thoughts are not good or bad,  or no more or less important than this suchness of unfolding.  very simple. nothing special.  Folks who work meditation to "bless out" or become disconnected from this amazing life seem to have issues with fear,  and avoidance,  I think the cute neo non duality word is "spiritual bypassing"  I call it fear to be alive. 

 

[voidisyinyang]

7 hours ago, 2ndchance said:

What are the main differences between Buddhist Practices vs Taoist Practices?

 

I have observed that Buddhist Practices focus on analyzing the mind to transform the demons within us while Taoist Practices seem to be more involved in more physical, sexual, energetic practices without indulging in the observation and transformation of one's mind.

 

Maybe I am wrong so I am willing to learn from experienced practitioners here.

 

If you study the book Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality - it teaches that some dreams are more real than others. So - think about that for a second. the book is free online.

[Zen Pig]

2 minutes ago, voidisyinyang said:

some dreams are more real than others

yes,  very true in my limited experience. thanks for the link

[voidisyinyang]

20 minutes ago, Zen Pig said:

yes,  very true in my limited experience. thanks for the link

Quote

This original spirit is the spirit of no spirit which can use spiritual fire to destroy its (physical) form to return to nothingness in order to achieve immortality. This spiritual fire is the spirit’s golden light that then appears.

 

just keep studying the book. https://archive.org/stream/TaoistYogaAlchemyAndImmortalityLuKuanYCharlesLuk/Taoist Yoga Alchemy and Immortality Lu K’uan Yü (Charles Luk)_djvu.txt

yes it's word searchable! thanks

[mrpasserby]

12 hours ago, Zen Pig said:

Folks who work meditation to "bless out" or become disconnected from this amazing life seem to have issues with fear,  and avoidance,  I think the cute neo non duality word is "spiritual bypassing"  I call it fear to be alive. 

In my experience: That is the reason for initiations, the fear challenges a person and when they are ready; they have to break through it, then receive the rewards of that initiation, and temporarily blissing  out before going on to over come the next challenge.

Not a direct quote: I think that it was the ancient sage Rumi that gave this big Hint and said something like: I lead you to the gate of heaven, then when a demon pops up you all run away.

Edited January 17, 2019 by mrpasserby
completed a partially expressed thought

[freeform]

6 hours ago, Zen Pig said:

wow.  don't know who these "advanced mediators" are

 

Yup - it's a sad state of affairs. And several of the ones I'm talking about are monks and are looked up to as meditation masters.

[Zen Pig]

59 minutes ago, freeform said:

Yup - it's a sad state of affairs. And several of the ones I'm talking about are monks and are looked up to as meditation masters.

wow. yes, don't know how to respond to this.  I am just a traveler, without a destination. so I have no idea if the road ends or goes on forever, maybe the monks are right, maybe not, maybe a little.. 

[voidisyinyang]

http://www.qianfeng.nl/?page_id=435

 

Ch'an Buddhist monks were also Daoist masters

 

 

[Miroku]

I dunno, honestly I'd say that the main difference is in the view, methods and fruit.
Some may say that both just use different words describing the same thing. That might be possible, however I am very sceptical towards that.

Edited January 17, 2019 by Miroku

[Gerard]

On 16/01/2019 at 5:59 PM, 2ndchance said:

I have observed that Buddhist Practices focus on analyzing the mind to transform the demons within us while Taoist Practices seem to be more involved in more physical, sexual, energetic practices without indulging in the observation and transformation of one's mind.

 

 

Tnat's pretty much it. End of discussion.

 

Note: Deep down (at the very end) Taoism and Buddhism will converge at one point. 

 

To sum up:

 

Taoism ----> mechanism of Yin & Yang (energy)

 

Buddhism ----> mechanism of the Mind (mind)

 

But ultimately the Mind is the source of everything including the Yin & Yang.

 

 

Edited January 17, 2019 by Gerard

[wandelaar]

2 hours ago, Gerard said:

But ultimately the Mind is the source of everything including the Yin & Yang.

 

Some people think so...

[wandelaar]

There is also the difference that orthodox Buddhism accepts reincarnation and spiritual development spanning several incarnations, whereas reincarnation was not part of the early forms of Taoism. Taoism is more happy with and thankful for (everyday) life as it is.

[Still_Waters]

40 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

There is also the difference that orthodox Buddhism accepts reincarnation and spiritual development spanning several incarnations, whereas reincarnation was not part of the early forms of Taoism. Taoism is more happy with and thankful for (everyday) life as it is.

Ramana Maharshi indicated that reincarnation is what they teach to the masses.

 

Hazrat Inayat Khan, the Sufi mystic, indicated that, if the one life is an "illusion", then past lives must also be an illusion.

 

Reflecting on the theory of reincarnation is quite fascinating and absorbing.

[wandelaar]

Reincarnation can easily be disproved. For even if it were true than the fraction of the personality of our previous incarnation that actually survives in our present existence has to be minute, or else the proof of the reality of reincarnation would have been overwhelming with so many people living today, and there would have been no doubt about it. I think it is a pity that the idea of reincarnation has become so popular lately. It's just muddled talk like so much in modern day spirituality.

 

The same goes for the nonsense about everything being an illusion. If that were so than Hazrat Inayat Khan himself would also be an illusion, and we wouldn't have to bother about what he said.

[Fa Xin]

1 hour ago, Still_Waters said:

Ramana Maharshi indicated that reincarnation is what they teach to the masses.

 

Who is “they”? I didn’t think Ramana had ties to Taoism/Buddhism. 

[Jonesboy]

On ‎1‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 12:59 AM, 2ndchance said:

What are the main differences between Buddhist Practices vs Taoist Practices?

 

I have observed that Buddhist Practices focus on analyzing the mind to transform the demons within us while Taoist Practices seem to be more involved in more physical, sexual, energetic practices without indulging in the observation and transformation of one's mind.

 

Maybe I am wrong so I am willing to learn from experienced practitioners here.

 

 

There are many forms of meditation within Buddhism.

 

You could say the main differences between the two systems is that Buddhism places a lot of focus on gaining clarity before introducing energy practices into the system.

 

Depending on the tradition, Buddhism does have physical movements and does work with sexual energy as well.

[dwai]

 

5 hours ago, Gerard said:

But ultimately the Mind is the source of everything including the Yin & Yang.

 

 

I’d say it’s not the “‘mind” but rather pure consciousness. Mind implies a steam of thoughts/objects. 

[Apech]

On 1/16/2019 at 7:59 AM, 2ndchance said:

What are the main differences between Buddhist Practices vs Taoist Practices?

 

I have observed that Buddhist Practices focus on analyzing the mind to transform the demons within us while Taoist Practices seem to be more involved in more physical, sexual, energetic practices without indulging in the observation and transformation of one's mind.

 

Maybe I am wrong so I am willing to learn from experienced practitioners here.

 

 

Buddhism and Daoism come from different traditions but they have historically mixed symbiotically especially in China - so there exist what you might call hybrid systems - although I don't really buy that term I'll use it anyway - like Ch'an/Zen for instance which is Daoist influenced Buddhism.

 

Obviously Buddhism originated in ancient India from the sramana tradition - sramanas being wandering mystics for whom the sage-king was the ideal - other traditions emerged from here also such as Jainism (which has some similarities to Buddhism).  The Buddha's main stress and indeed starting point was the individual's experience of life and how the cyclical world (samasara) was a projection arising through ignorance and desire.  So the remedy lay in taming the mind by removing ignorance and cutting through our grasping at things.  Mind here is usually 'citta' as in 'bodhicitta' = awakened mind and does not mean our thoughts as such but the basis of awareness - or indeed the 'substance' in which awareness/perception arises.  Closer perhaps to the word consciousness as mentioned above - although there are technical difficulties with this also I think.

 

It is hard to say exactly when Daoism arose - as although Lao Tzu's Daodejing was written about 500 BC it is not necessarily a foundational text and older classics such as the Yijing contain at least proto-Daoist ideas.  What most people in the West focus on is the Daoist techniques of energy working such as qigong and inner alchemy (neidan).  These arose out of Chinese medicine and martial arts.  As Daoism is in a sense realist as the dao itself, heaven and earth, yin/yang and so forth as considered 'real' and not mental projections it does not have the same basis as Buddhism.  However as I said above there has been so much cross cultural influence historically that some schools a can sound almost indistinguishable.  It is also more or less certain that Neidan influenced the development of Buddhist tantra - even though tantra itself is an Indian approach developed from secret clan and kaula tantras in both 'Hindu' and Buddhist sects.

 

The goal of Buddhism is to become a Buddha (or Arhat) and thus awakened in the sense that Buddha meant it.

 

The goal of Daoist neidan is immortality (which may be understood as physical or spiritual) - and unlike Buddhism there is always a sense of harmony with something beyond ourselves, rather than mind awakening.

 

You should follow whatever system you have a strong connection to - which is what you have to decide I guess

 

 

[windwalker]

4 hours ago, Jonesboy said:

Depending on the tradition, Buddhism does have physical movements and does work with sexual energy as well.

 

This created based on buddist traditions

 

 

"Da Bei Quan (Great Compassion Boxing) is a rare style which was passed in Beijing by Buddhist monk Qi Yun (1904-1966), who created it by combining some of the basics from martial methods of the central plains such as Chaquan, Hongquan and Huaquan that he studied in his youth with Buddhist ideologies thus whilst slow like Taijiquan its movements contain structure like those parent styles.

 

Since after marrying in his twenties, his wife passed away of illness and then Qiyun did not know how to care for his daughter so he took her to his family home and then left decided to become a monk at Fayuan Temple.

 

He had much regrets and was saved by the Great Compassion Sutra (Da Bei Zhou) which he then took as the symbolism of his boxing practice, thus Dabei Quan was founded.

 

(Another story tells of learning from other monks and that he was the last descendant of this dying art but this is less likely)..

 

In the 1960's it became nicknamed as Shaolin Rouquan (Soft Boxing) which this name also prevailed in 1980's when Shaolin was trying to re-construct its lost arts. Today it is also known as Chanmen Taijiquan (Zen Style Taijiquan) or sometimes as Fomen Taijiquan (Buddhist Style Taijiquan).

 

It exercises the body, and the mind, with stress on the latter. The movements combine hardness with softness, stretch tendons and relax joints, movements are connected, light and open."

Edited January 17, 2019 by windwalker

[Jonesboy]

Thank you,

 

I was thinking of things like this.

Spoiler

 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2019 by Jonesboy

[windwalker]

12 minutes ago, Jonesboy said:

Thank you,

 

I was thinking of things like this.

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

 

The physical arts are all very interesting. 

In Beijing was introduced to a noted teacher of the style although never practiced it, had I not found taiji many yrs ago it would have been something I would have been interested in exploring on many levels.

 

I did find this interesting in the notes under the clip  relative to the thread. 

 

 

"In the 1960's it became nicknamed as Shaolin Rouquan (Soft Boxing) which this name also prevailed in 1980's when Shaolin was trying to re-construct its lost arts.

 

Today it is also known as Chanmen Taijiquan (Zen Style Taijiquan) or sometimes as Fomen Taijiquan (Buddhist Style Taijiquan)."

 

[Still_Waters]

5 hours ago, Fa Xin said:

 

Who is “they”? I didn’t think Ramana had ties to Taoism/Buddhism. 

I was commenting about the views on reincarnation from other perspectives as well. That topic --- reincarnation --- really deserves a thread of its own.