The clay pot theory or the crack-pot theory?

[dwai]

In Advaita Vedanta studies, an analogy using  the example of clay and pots (made of clay) is often used to illustrate the nature of Turiya and the three "normal" states of consciousness, namely waking, dreaming and deep sleep. The analogy goes like this -

 

Quote

There are many objects called pots, which are of different shapes, sizes and even colors. However, they are all made of clay. For the non-discerning mind, pots and clay might be "separate" things. Yet, for the discerning mind, the pots are never anything apart from clay. They are given the shape and sizes based on utility, but ultimately they come from clay and disappear back into clay. Similarly, the states of waking, dreaming and deep sleep, are never apart from Awareness (Turiya) or Atman (Self). To the ignorant, they seem to be separate states; but to the awakened, they are nothing but modifications of that same awareness.

 

This analogy/example has a limited purpose, to illustrate and evoke in the mind of the student the relationship between Turiya/Atman and the three states of waking, dreaming and deep sleep. If taken too far -- for e.g. some worthies might start going into the details of comparing the chemical compositions of the clay, the firing process, the presence of the potter, etc to try and prove that the pots are indeed apart from the clay, it has gone beyond the point of utility of the example. 

 

Another example often used is that of Gold and ornaments made of gold.

 

While Turiya is called the "4th state", it really is not a state at all. It is the Reality in which the three states of waking, dreaming and deep sleep rise and fall. That implies that Turiya is always present and available. People have argued as to why then is Turiya called the "4th"? It is done so with the intention of gradually drawing the student's attention from the everyday experiences of waking, dreaming and deep sleep to the ever-present reality of Pure Awareness (aka Turiya). This type of practice is known as "arundhati nyāya or arundhati darśana nyāya" in classical Indian systems, wherein the student's attention is gradually guided from the most obvious to the most subtle (the most subtle being the actual topic of study). 

 

 

 

[Jeff]

Thanks for sharing.   

 

In Kashmir Shaivism, specifically as described in the Shiva Sutras, it is a little different.  As the Shiva Sutras state...

 

3.38. tripadādyanuprāṇanam

Emerging from turya, insert the absolute bliss of that state into the waking, dreaming and deep sleep states and they will become one with that state of turya.

 

3.39. citta sthitivaccharīra karaṇabāhyeṣu

This awareness of God consciousness should not only be infused in that state where one’s mind is established in one-pointedness but it should also be infused in the establishment of his body, in his organic actions and in the external objective world.

 

Additionally, rather than your pure awareness (with no objects) concept, it is more like a God consciousness, such that...

 

3.24. mātrāsvapratyayasaṁdhāne naṣṭasya punarutthānam

When a yogī, in coming out from samādhi, also attempts to maintain awareness of God consciousness in the objective world, then, even though his real nature of self is destroyed by the inferior generation of self-consciousness, he again rises in that supreme nature of the self.

 

3.25. śivatulyo jāyate

He becomes just like Śiva.

 

So rather that simply his nature of self being destroyed ( or lost in Brahman), he rises again in the supreme nature of self and becomes just like Siva.  

 

 

[dwai]

46 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Thanks for sharing.   

 

In Kashmir Shaivism, specifically as described in the Shiva Sutras, it is a little different.  As the Shiva Sutras state...

 

3.38. tripadādyanuprāṇanam

Emerging from turya, insert the absolute bliss of that state into the waking, dreaming and deep sleep states and they will become one with that state of turya.

 

3.39. citta sthitivaccharīra karaṇabāhyeṣu

This awareness of God consciousness should not only be infused in that state where one’s mind is established in one-pointedness but it should also be infused in the establishment of his body, in his organic actions and in the external objective world.

 

Additionally, rather than your pure awareness (with no objects) concept, it is more like a God consciousness, such that...

 

3.24. mātrāsvapratyayasaṁdhāne naṣṭasya punarutthānam

When a yogī, in coming out from samādhi, also attempts to maintain awareness of God consciousness in the objective world, then, even though his real nature of self is destroyed by the inferior generation of self-consciousness, he again rises in that supreme nature of the self.

 

3.25. śivatulyo jāyate

He becomes just like Śiva.

 

So rather that simply his nature of self being destroyed ( or lost in Brahman), he rises again in the supreme nature of self and becomes just like Siva.  

 

 

I don't see this as being different from AV at all. The Shiva sutras have 4 methods, of which one is not discussed (the method less method). If you read the Sambhavopaya or Shaktopaya, there is not much difference between them and AV. There is nothing destroyed or lost in Brahman. Rather, there is the recognition of one's true nature being Brahman instead of jiva. As shankara says "Brahman is real. Jiva is none other than Brahman". 

 

What you are quoting from is the ańvopaya, which is the last resort and hence meant for  (if methods 1, 2 or 3 don't work). If I take the quote on Turiya from the Sambhavopaya, i get --

 

Quote

1.7. j ā gratsvapnasu ṣ uptabhede tury ā bhogasa ṁ bhava ḥ

Such a heroic yogi experiences the expansive state of turya in the differentiated states of waking, dreaming and deep sleep.

 

1.8. j ñ ā nam j ā grat

 

External organic knowledge constitutes the waking state.

 

1.9. svapno vikalp ā ḥ

 

Internal perceptions and thoughts comprise the dreaming state.

 

1.10. aviveko m ā y ā sau ṣ uptam

Forgetfulness and the negation of awareness is the dreamless state or m ā y ā .

 

1.11. tritayabhokt ā v ī re ś a ḥ

The one who enjoys the oneness of the three states, waking, dreaming and deep sleep in tur ī ya becomes the master of all organic energies.

 

1.12. vismayo yogabh ū mik ā ḥ

The predominant sign of such a yog ī is joy filled amazement. 

 

Or even this 

 

Quote

3.20. tri ṣ u caturtha ṁ tailavad ā secyam 

 

The fourth state (turya) must be expanded like oil so that it pervades the other three: waking, dreaming and deep sleep. 

 

 

Edited January 24, 2019 by dwai

[dwai]

   32 minutes ago,  Jonesboy said: 

 

@Jonesboy let us continue our discussion here.

 

 

Thank you Dwai but I am still confused.

 

I get that we are all let's say Buddhas but it is our attachments that keep us from the realization.

 

Your Self Knowledge post seems to be about how attachments keeps us from clarity.

The Self-knowledge post is about what stabilizing in the Self-realization means per AV. It is about how Self-realization should work to prevent us getting entangled in samsara. 

When you say awareness is the Light in which objects are known and then you bring in AV where all objects are an illusion.

When I say awareness is the Light in which objects are known, I mean that without awareness no objects can be known. Now what the value of objects without a subject may be, is not of any interest to me (as far as I'm concerned, objects don't exist without the subject). 

Are you saying there are no objects just awareness free from all such things?

There is only awareness and all objects rise and fall in, are made up of it and are never apart from it. You can verify that yourself. Where do you experience any object? Can you ever experience anything outside your awareness?

 

 

[Jonesboy]

3 minutes ago, dwai said:

There is only awareness and all objects rise and fall in, are made up of it and are never apart from it. You can verify that yourself. Where do you experience any object? Can you ever experience anything outside your awareness?

 

 

 

Thank you Dwai.

 

What you are saying is much the same thing that people like Rupert Spira teaches.

 

”Can you ever experience anything outside your awareness?”

 

With such a comment it is clear our views are very far apart.

 

While everything is experienced within one's awareness it is how it is experienced that matters. There is a vast difference between seeing the forest and being the forest. Of being every tree, of feeling every leaf as you.

 

That to me is the meaning of objectless awareness and a much deeper level of realization than telling people they can verify it themselves with the above question.

[dwai]

1 minute ago, Jonesboy said:

 

Thank you Dwai.

 

What you are saying is much the same thing that people like Rupert Spira teaches.

 

”Can you ever experience anything outside your awareness?”

 

With such a comment it is clear our views are very far apart.

It could very well be. 

1 minute ago, Jonesboy said:

While everything is experienced within one's awareness it is how it is experienced that matters. There is a vast difference between seeing the forest and being the forest. Of being every tree, of feeling every leaf as you.

You are making qualitative judgements on the state of awareness (expanded awareness or contracted awareness), while I'm saying that all states arise and fall within awareness and are made up of nothing apart from awareness. Pure Awareness is the basis. It might be very boring, but that's what is real. Running after expanded states of awareness, of great experiences etc are just more activity of and within that very awareness  

1 minute ago, Jonesboy said:

 

That to me is the meaning of objectless awareness and a much deeper level of realization than telling people they can verify it themselves with the above question.

That above question is a thread to use to unravel what people consider "reality". Another question would be "tell me who you are in a fraction of a second, without thinking"... 

[Jonesboy]

Where are you getting expanded states and chasing after things, of making judgments?

 

What I posted is what is meant by first there is a mountain, then no mountain and then the mountain appears again.

 

What you are describing in this thread is the first mountain.

 

”Another question would be "tell me who you are in a fraction of a second, without thinking"... ”

 

All you will ever get with these type of questions is silence or no mountain as an answer which is far different than being the mountain.

[Jeff]

1 hour ago, dwai said:

I don't see this as being different from AV at all. The Shiva sutras have 4 methods, of which one is not discussed (the method less method). If you read the Sambhavopaya or Shaktopaya, there is not much difference between them and AV. There is nothing destroyed or lost in Brahman. Rather, there is the recognition of one's true nature being Brahman instead of jiva. As shankara says "Brahman is real. Jiva is none other than Brahman". 

 

What you are quoting from is the ańvopaya, which is the last resort and hence meant for  (if methods 1, 2 or 3 don't work). If I take the quote on Turiya from the Sambhavopaya, i get --

 

Or even this 

 

 

Yes, we have discussed this many times, I just have to respectfully disagree.  

 

1.22. mahāhṛidānusaṁdhānān mantravīryānubhavaḥ

By the attentive continuity of meditation on the great ocean of consciousness the power of supreme I is attained.

 

 

[dwai]

8 minutes ago, Jeff said:

 

Yes, we have discussed this many times, I just have to respectfully disagree.  

 

1.22. mahāhṛidānusaṁdhānān mantravīryānubhavaḥ

By the attentive continuity of meditation on the great ocean of consciousness the power of supreme I is attained.

 

 

[dwai]

27 minutes ago, Jonesboy said:

Where are you getting expanded states and chasing after things, of making judgments?

 

What I posted is what is meant by first there is a mountain, then no mountain and then the mountain appears again.

 

What you are describing in this thread is the first mountain.

The mountain is already there. The no mountain is where the mountain is negated (emptiness of self) and then the mountain appears again is when it is realized the world is none other than the Self. It is very much a part of what I'm suggesting as well.

 

27 minutes ago, Jonesboy said:

 

”Another question would be "tell me who you are in a fraction of a second, without thinking"... ”

 

All you will ever get with these type of questions is silence or no mountain as an answer which is far different than being the mountain.

It is a stage. From the no mountain/silence comes the realization that you are the "mountain". Nothing special needs to be done...just completion of the process.

[Jonesboy]

10 minutes ago, dwai said:

The mountain is already there. The no mountain is where the mountain is negated (emptiness of self) and then the mountain appears again is when it is realized the world is none other than the Self. It is very much a part of what I'm suggesting as well.

 

It is a stage. From the no mountain/silence comes the realization that you are the "mountain". Nothing special needs to be done...just completion of the process.

 

Nothing is negated, where is emptiness of self ever referenced as something negated?

 

Silence, the void is far from differentiation. Isn't the void in AV more a motionless silence? It is the exact opposite of realizing you are the mountain. 

 

In AV there is no mountain it is all an illusion.

 

Also, now you are talking about completing a process? That would seem to go against your earlier posts.

 

Thank you for the conversation Dwai but at this point, I really see no need to continue the discussion.

 

All the best to you my friend.

[dwai]

39 minutes ago, Jonesboy said:

 

Nothing is negated, where is emptiness of self ever referenced as something negated?

 

Silence, the void is far from differentiation. Isn't the void in AV more a motionless silence? It is the exact opposite of realizing you are the mountain. 

 

In AV there is no mountain it is all an illusion.

That’s because of a lack of adequate  knowledge of AV.  

Quote

Also, now you are talking about completing a process? That would seem to go against your earlier posts.

Huh? 

Quote

Thank you for the conversation Dwai but at this point, I really see no need to continue the discussion.

 

All the best to you my friend.

And to you too  

Edited January 24, 2019 by dwai

[Spotless]

On 1/23/2019 at 4:31 PM, Jonesboy said:

While everything is experienced within one's awareness it is how it is experienced that matters. There is a vast difference between seeing the forest and being the forest. Of being every tree, of feeling every leaf as you.

 

That to me is the meaning of objectless awareness and a much deeper level of realization than telling people they can verify it themselves with the above question.

You are not speaking of Objectless Awareness - you are speaking of something much simpler - Unity Consciousness. 

 

Conscious Awareness without Object is beyond any inertia of object and in the immediacy of Pure Awareness 

 

This is not the case in Unity Consciousness.

[Jonesboy]

11 hours ago, Spotless said:

You are not speaking of Objectless Awareness - you are speaking of something much simpler - Unity Consciousness. 

 

Conscious Awareness without Object is beyond any inertia of object and in the immediacy of Pure Awareness 

 

This is not the case in Unity Consciousness.

 

I guess that would depend on what tradition you are following.

 

If the world is an illusion, there are no objects. If it isn't.. well then..

 

Spoiler

The Heart, says Abhinavagupta, is the very Self of Siva, of Bhairava,

and of the Devi, the Goddess who is inseparable from Siva. Indeed,

the Heart is the site of their union (yamala), of their embrace (samghatta).

This abode is pure consciousness (caitanya) as well as unlimited bliss

(ananda). As consciousness the Heart is the unbounded, infinite light

(prakasa) as well as the freedom (svatantrya) and spontaneity (vimarsa)

of that light to appear in a multitude and variety of forms. The Heart,

says Abhinavagupta, is the sacred fire-pit of Bhairava.1

 

The Heart is the Ultimate (anuttara) which is both utterly transcendent

to (visvottirna) and yet totally immanent in (visvamaya) all created things.

It is the ultimate essence (sara). Thus, the Heart embodies the paradoxical

nature of Siva and is therefore a place of astonishment (camatkara), sheer

wonder (vismaya), and ineffable mystery. The Heart is the fullness and

unboundedness of Siva (purnatva), the plenum of being that overflows

continuously into manifestation. At the same time, it is also an inconceivable

emptiness (sunyatisunya).2 The Heart is the unbounded and

universal Self (purnahanta).

 

The Heart of Siva is not a static or inert absolute, however. In fact,

the non-dual Kashmir Shaiva tradition considers it to be in a state of

perpetual movement, a state of vibration (spanda)3 in which it is continuously

contracting and expanding (samkoca-vikasa), opening and closing

(unmesa-nimesa), trembling (ullasita), quivering (sphurita), throbbing,

waving, and sparkling (ucchalata). The intensity and speed of this move

ment is such that paradoxically it is simultaneously a perfect dynamic

stillness.4

The tradition states that the Heart is the enormous ocean (ambunidhi),

the ocean of light, the ocean of consciousness. The waters of consciousness

that in man are broken by countless polarizing and divisive waves (urmi)

may be easily brought to a state of dynamic stillness by the process of

immersion or absorption (samdvesa) in the Heart.5

 

 

 

Spoiler

Even as Siva creates the very real game of

breaking himself into parts which suffer transformation, division, extinction

and emptiness, he is nevertheless able to maintain himself free of the game

and intact as Siva, all the while taking on the roles required by the game.

In the inconceivable enormity of Siva's game, any self-contained

unit - for example, our universe - may be termed a kula. The unit is

self-sufficient precisely because it is a part that is structured out of wholeness.

Since the kula's essential reality is finally that wholeness which it

has bodied forth, every unit, or kula, resonates in identity with every

other structure composed of that wholeness. It is in this way that the

human body, as a kula, resonates in identity with the entire universe.

 

.....

 

Wherever Siva is present, the

whole is present. If the body is a structure composed essentially of Siva,

then all that is manifested from Siva, including the entire array of universes,

may be found present in the body. Their presence in the body is not, it

must be emphasized, as a microcosmic replica. The infinite reality out

of which the array of universes are structured is present in the body, and

thus they too are present in the body. This is the extreme to which the

notion of non-duality is carried by the tradition.

 

Edited January 28, 2019 by Jonesboy

[Spotless]

1 hour ago, Jonesboy said:

 

I guess that would depend on what tradition you are following.

 

If the world is an illusion, there are no objects. If it isn't.. well then..

 

  Hide contents

The Heart, says Abhinavagupta, is the very Self of Siva, of Bhairava,

and of the Devi, the Goddess who is inseparable from Siva. Indeed,

the Heart is the site of their union (yamala), of their embrace (samghatta).

This abode is pure consciousness (caitanya) as well as unlimited bliss

(ananda). As consciousness the Heart is the unbounded, infinite light

(prakasa) as well as the freedom (svatantrya) and spontaneity (vimarsa)

of that light to appear in a multitude and variety of forms. The Heart,

says Abhinavagupta, is the sacred fire-pit of Bhairava.1

 

The Heart is the Ultimate (anuttara) which is both utterly transcendent

to (visvottirna) and yet totally immanent in (visvamaya) all created things.

It is the ultimate essence (sara). Thus, the Heart embodies the paradoxical

nature of Siva and is therefore a place of astonishment (camatkara), sheer

wonder (vismaya), and ineffable mystery. The Heart is the fullness and

unboundedness of Siva (purnatva), the plenum of being that overflows

continuously into manifestation. At the same time, it is also an inconceivable

emptiness (sunyatisunya).2 The Heart is the unbounded and

universal Self (purnahanta).

 

The Heart of Siva is not a static or inert absolute, however. In fact,

the non-dual Kashmir Shaiva tradition considers it to be in a state of

perpetual movement, a state of vibration (spanda)3 in which it is continuously

contracting and expanding (samkoca-vikasa), opening and closing

(unmesa-nimesa), trembling (ullasita), quivering (sphurita), throbbing,

waving, and sparkling (ucchalata). The intensity and speed of this move

ment is such that paradoxically it is simultaneously a perfect dynamic

stillness.4

The tradition states that the Heart is the enormous ocean (ambunidhi),

the ocean of light, the ocean of consciousness. The waters of consciousness

that in man are broken by countless polarizing and divisive waves (urmi)

may be easily brought to a state of dynamic stillness by the process of

immersion or absorption (samdvesa) in the Heart.5

 

 

 

  Hide contents

Even as Siva creates the very real game of

breaking himself into parts which suffer transformation, division, extinction

and emptiness, he is nevertheless able to maintain himself free of the game

and intact as Siva, all the while taking on the roles required by the game.

In the inconceivable enormity of Siva's game, any self-contained

unit - for example, our universe - may be termed a kula. The unit is

self-sufficient precisely because it is a part that is structured out of wholeness.

Since the kula's essential reality is finally that wholeness which it

has bodied forth, every unit, or kula, resonates in identity with every

other structure composed of that wholeness. It is in this way that the

human body, as a kula, resonates in identity with the entire universe.

 

.....

 

Wherever Siva is present, the

whole is present. If the body is a structure composed essentially of Siva,

then all that is manifested from Siva, including the entire array of universes,

may be found present in the body. Their presence in the body is not, it

must be emphasized, as a microcosmic replica. The infinite reality out

of which the array of universes are structured is present in the body, and

thus they too are present in the body. This is the extreme to which the

notion of non-duality is carried by the tradition.

 

Unity Consciousness is what you described - from my experience. 

 

It is basically the definition of what it is often like and spoken of.

 

I am so uninterested in constant quotes. 

 

You have rejected all teachers mentioned as not anywhere near your perception of Awakened or Enlightened - can you give us one example of a living person you consider at the very least Awakened (or Enlightened)?

 

I am a bit reminded of Tibetan_Ice who only really had exchanges in quotes - he was last here in 2016.

 

He also rejected all living teachers quoted or referred to and he would not name one living master that he thought was Awake or Enlightened.

 

He spoke often of higher levels but never from experience-and he was certain that he understood the quotes he loved to parry with. 

 

It was clear he was well read - and clearly boxed in by the reading.

 

I am not trying to insult you - I would like to read or hear a video of someone you hold above all of these others - such as Rupert Spira, Eckhart Tolle, Amma, Adyha Shanti, Mooji, and Gangaji - all of whom you have shrugged off.

 

I ask this because I believe it is impossible to find a truly Awakened teacher that will point to something other than what these fine teachers are pointing to. 

 

Also some of the high states that you point to that would seem impossibly high are not quite so high as you may assume. 

 

It is already nearly impossible to get beyond quibbling about fairly simple stuff without being accused of being delusional let alone talk about “complete pie in the sky stuff” without distributing air bags. And words make no sense to the Un-Awake in those spheres - they only create adoration or jealousy and never point to anything helpful. 

 

The highest teaching becomes far more valuable after Awakening - because then you actually get what is being said - often the only thing you will glean is that your patience will take you there - beyond that the words are still of little value. Seeking has ceased but unfolding has truly just begun.

 

 

[Jonesboy]

47 minutes ago, Spotless said:

Unity Consciousness is what you described - from my experience. 

 

It is basically the definition of what it is often like and spoken of.

 

I am so uninterested in constant quotes. 

 

You have rejected all teachers mentioned as not anywhere near your perception of Awakened or Enlightened - can you give us one example of a living person you consider at the very least Awakened (or Enlightened)?

 

I am a bit reminded of Tibetan_Ice who only really had exchanges in quotes - he was last here in 2016.

 

He also rejected all living teachers quoted or referred to and he would not name one living master that he thought was Awake or Enlightened.

 

He spoke often of higher levels but never from experience-and he was certain that he understood the quotes he loved to parry with. 

 

It was clear he was well read - and clearly boxed in by the reading.

 

I am not trying to insult you - I would like to read or hear a video of someone you hold above all of these others - such as Rupert Spira, Eckhart Tolle, Amma, Adyha Shanti, Mooji, and Gangaji - all of whom you have shrugged off.

 

I ask this because I believe it is impossible to find a truly Awakened teacher that will point to something other than what these fine teachers are pointing to. 

 

Also some of the high states that you point to that would seem impossibly high are not quite so high as you may assume. 

 

It is already nearly impossible to get beyond quibbling about fairly simple stuff without being accused of being delusional let alone talk about “complete pie in the sky stuff” without distributing air bags. And words make no sense to the Un-Awake in those spheres - they only create adoration or jealousy and never point to anything helpful. 

 

The highest teaching becomes far more valuable after Awakening - because then you actually get what is being said - often the only thing you will glean is that your patience will take you there - beyond that the words are still of little value. Seeking has ceased but unfolding has truly just begun.

 

 

 

We read so we can learn. If we think we know it all.. well, we tend to get stuck, thinking we have arrived and all that. I have provided quotes from established traditions to help show there are different views. We can all say we are awakened and our view is correct and others are wrong.. sometimes using teachings help.

 

Quote

You have rejected all teachers mentioned as not anywhere near your perception of Awakened or Enlightened - can you give us one example of a living person you consider at the very least Awakened (or Enlightened)?

 

I could but I am not sure they would like me too. No, I don't think any of the people listed above have realized the power of creation.

 

Quote

I ask this because I believe it is impossible to find a truly Awakened teacher that will point to something other than what these fine teachers are pointing to. 

 

They all are reading from the same books... A true teacher can directly show you.. that is the difference.

 

Also, I don't recall saying anything about Amma

Edited January 28, 2019 by Jonesboy

[Everything]

The subconscious or unconscious don't mean anything, they literally don't matter, they don't matterialise, just like any and all conditions in your life don't matter, they don't matterialize. They do not form matter. It is your state of being that forms all these conditions and matterializes for you ever more.

 

Your here and now is always where all of your power is. Your awareness is. Your consciousness is. And your freedom to choose is. Your freedom to focus is. And when you use your focus, in a deliberate and conscious and sensitive way, you create your own subconscious, unconscious and conditions of your life, through the here and now moment, always, in a sensitive enough fashion that you care about how you feel and want to feel better and good, that those conditions and unconditions all serve you evermore as they were designed to do.

 

If you focus on the idea, I need to cut the body open, and investigate in all the different parts of it, only then I can be happy. Then you create this life for yourself. Where you choose to do something you want, which is taking your eternal journey that never ends, and place it in front of you, in such a way that you will never enjoy it, untill you find a condition that pleases you.

 

So if times are good, you thrive and if times are bad, you don't. This is called being a half-wit. Because you are using only the mind's capability of experiencing life, and make no decision whatsoever on what life you want to be living, because you have denied the intelligence of your heart, and thereby your acces to the greater intelligence of your soul. So you do not fulfill your life's purpose, untill you die.

 

You have focused your consciousness in such a way to subconsciously and unconsciously emprison yourself to the conditions of your life that you co-create and perpetuate by your investigation of the conditions, with the ever practicing believe that those conditions are not of your own nature, they do not belong, and must be understood for what they are not, and changed, evermore, in ever efforts of unaccomplishments, trying to live, and thus becoming blind to how you are actually already living. It is like giving yourself over to a greater power, that you continuesly create yourself, unknowingly you are creating it.

 

This is called creating by default. That is why so many people call this the time of awakening. Because there is a potential for people to wake up to what truely matters in their life. And it is they themselves, and who they really truely already are, that already contains all the values they seek. And then the conditions of their life will be allowed to change in a way that will forever serve them, because that is why they chose to be here in this physical life experience in the first place. The most specific leading edge in all of creation. The time is always here and now, and it is always ripe for your choosing to be a conscious deliberate creator of your own life. To focus your mind on what does feel good to you, evermore, in ever expanding and in spiraling inspirations of ever extacy and joy and bliss, evermore. Otherwise... You're just not so feeling good, because you're not so fully living the life you came here to live. With the excuse and negative attachments of believes and very well and intentionally practiced thought patterns that say you need to understand this and that, before you allow yourself to enjoy the things you truely already enjoy and understand and WANT to understand evermore, because they fill you so much with passion and joy and love and feelings of clarity and knowing, and freedom. Because that is how you were ment to live. To just enjoy your life. Because there's nothing serious here going on at all. Never has, never will be. And if you take it seriously, you are only choosing life to mock you and make a mocking example of you for others aswell, evermore. Just so that you aswell can laugh when your life is over. In such a case.

[dwai]

 

 

1 hour ago, Spotless said:

It is already nearly impossible to get beyond quibbling about fairly simple stuff without being accused of being delusional let alone talk about “complete pie in the sky stuff” without distributing air bags. And words make no sense to the Un-Awake in those spheres - they only create adoration or jealousy and never point to anything helpful. 

Yes and we keep seeing this in many different formats over and over again. I think that is part of the process...in a "rage, rage, rage against the dying of the light" kind of way.  

1 hour ago, Spotless said:

The highest teaching becomes far more valuable after Awakening - because then you actually get what is being said - often the only thing you will glean is that your patience will take you there - beyond that the words are still of little value. Seeking has ceased but unfolding has truly just begun.

This!

[blue eyed snake]

I've never read much, but  once there was a moment ( or 2) were the 'me' just vanished. It felt like being the activity my body was doing, being the things I used for it, being the surroundings.

 

I don't care whether that is low, high or higher experience.The memory of it is treasured. And the little I do read has become much clearer.

I always like the simple language Dwai uses to tell about things, it reminds me of my teacher and touches something in me that probably needs to be touched.

[Spotless]

18 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

I've never read much, but  once there was a moment ( or 2) were the 'me' just vanished. It felt like being the activity my body was doing, being the things I used for it, being the surroundings.

 

I don't care whether that is low, high or higher experience.The memory of it is treasured. And the little I do read has become much clearer.

I always like the simple language Dwai uses to tell about things, it reminds me of my teacher and touches something in me that probably needs to be touched.

The “basics” are the most advanced elements of a practice - with good thorough basics little else is needed.

 

And when a teacher / teaching is needed they will appear.

 

I have no lineage but the basics of meditation and the way of Yoga. Was not interested in the higher specifics as I saw too much programming in religion. Though I could have written a piece or two on monads and such before I put the books away around 45 years ago.

 

It could be said I have a lineage in Qi Gong but what I know of it is all experiencial - practicing with a master that speaks no English. I simply looked at the energy and had no expectation at all. And we do not direct energy nor have I imagined it to move somewhere. Just breathing and postures and everything blossomed all by itself.

 

Experiences certainly are treasures - even if not sustained. They offer a great deal to what is generally a very solitary endeavor.

 

 

 

 

 

[Everything]

Yes we all raw cookies. Hell is just a state of being you pass through, on your way to heaven. 

 

Everything's gonna go wrong all at once. And time ceases to exist. An eternity of suffering will pass, in one second of your time. And never will suffering be unto you any longer, no more. Because you will have had it all, already fulfilled of the misunderstanding you can now drop the ores, so to speak. 

 

Your being will go through as if some sorts of pencil sharpener. What no longer serves your eternal and joyous herritage, peeled off, to become like a pencil that is sharp ever more, fully functional and capable of everlasting joy. That will be of the many writings of your free choosing. 

And you become the ever expansion of your own freedom. 

 

And only joy and beyond, capable of succeeding, you no longer try to cease your everbecoming. Only to enter the story of all that you have always and ever wished to become. 

 

So you simply go forth to ever new, with great eagerness of what is and what is to become, evermore, everhere and evernow.