Water above Fire

[Wu Ming Jen]

I was worried he was going to fall down. I would feel a lot better if he was holding onto a pole or something.

 

For the infirm or those who lack balance a great simple exercises. Nothing to do with internal alchemy if this is still the topic and if it is a formless before birth energy Jing is a liquid??? what is happening and how exactly could that even make sense? associated with blood, sweat, tears, sylvia in the post heaven body that dies does not mean jing is a liquid BTW

 

 

 

[Wu Ming Jen]

I left semen off the list of liquids because people are sex crazed around here. When I practice sex never entered my mind that would be stepping back into birth and death and I do not like to retard my practice. 

[yuuichi]

Can we return to the topic of discussion? Fire (Li) and Water (Kan).

 

How does one identify Fire and Water? What are the characteristics of this Fire and Water? 

[Mudfoot]

1 hour ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

thing to do with internal alchemy if this is still the topic 

 

No, we were off topic. 

Now back again. 

[Mudfoot]

1 hour ago, yuuichi said:

Can we return to the topic of discussion? Fire (Li) and Water (Kan).

 

How does one identify Fire and Water? What are the characteristics of this Fire and Water? 

This is where the Nei dan threads dies. 

 

Noone wants to say it out in public, because in an instant someone else will state it is wrong. 

 

At best, we will start to quote some Cleary translation, and before you know it mythical creatures (and hopefully not seminal fluid) will fly in the air. 

[Jeff]

1 hour ago, yuuichi said:

Can we return to the topic of discussion? Fire (Li) and Water (Kan).

 

How does one identify Fire and Water? What are the characteristics of this Fire and Water? 

 

The two are really just the polarities of the same thing. But at higher levels of consciousness, fire will feel like expansion or rising up, water will feel like tingling or vibration. Fire is transmission, water is reception. Between the two poles energy/light flows. But it is like a pendulum swinging back and forth, and the higher you go (and the mentally clearer you are) the broader the range of the pendulum swing, and the easier to notice.

[Mudfoot]

15 minutes ago, Jeff said:

But at higher levels of consciousness, fire will feel like expansion or rising up, water will feel like tingling or vibration.

And at lower levels (mine), fire would feel almost like above, while water would feel cohesive (if I translated that one right). 

But that would be in a non-daoist frame of reference, and not using these terms as designations for aspects of the mind. 

[Jeff]

41 minutes ago, Mudfoot said:

And at lower levels (mine), fire would feel almost like above, while water would feel cohesive (if I translated that one right). 

But that would be in a non-daoist frame of reference, and not using these terms as designations for aspects of the mind. 

 

At more normal levels, but with energy flow.  Fire/transmission feels like heat or getting warm because one is hitting issues and fears but not releasing them, so the resistance feel warm, and hence the name “fire”.  Reception/water is the letting go or releasing, so one frees up space, that new space takes a while for the energy to expand into it, so it tends to feel cool/cold, and hence the name “water”.

[Wu Ming Jen]

Also we need to heat up the water so it will rise and cool down the fire so it will sink. Regulate the furnace, not too hot, not too cold.To help energy go down the descending channel a very subtle 5% tilt forward on exhale not noticeable visually will help. As we breath in the body rises and as we breath out the body sinks fun and noticeable while taking a bath or during sitting meditation.

 

We live between heaven and earth so simultaneously we have a lifting energy connected to heaven and a sinking energy connected to earth within our bodies.  A south pole (fire, heaven, yang so on) at the crown of the head and a north pole (water, earth, yin so on and so on) at the base. Interesting that the inventors of the compass have a south pointing needle, the south on top (advance, summer, fire and so on and so on..

[Taoist Texts]

2 hours ago, Mudfoot said:

At best, we will start to quote some Cleary translation

what does Bertschinger have to say? lets discuss

[Mudfoot]

23 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

what does Bertschinger have to say? lets discuss

And spoil a good thread? 

[Taoist Texts]

17 minutes ago, Mudfoot said:

And spoil a good thread? 

yes, lets spoil it hard and good. come on, quote the guy. i dare you!

[Mudfoot]

The kidneys represent water, but within the waters is born an energy, this energy actually consisting of fire;...... 

 

But I would only use that to support my already distorted view of my own experiences. 

[Taoist Texts]

6 minutes ago, Mudfoot said:

The kidneys represent water, but within the waters is born an energy, this energy actually consisting of fire

i am loving it. so far so good

 

6 minutes ago, Mudfoot said:

distorted

by what?

[Mudfoot]

4 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

by what?

Lack of formal instruction in Nei Dan. 

[Mudfoot]

48 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

yes, lets spoil it hard and good. come on, quote the guy. i dare you!

You evil you! 

 

You just made me spoil a suite of years of not contributing in any useful way to a nei dan thread. 

Now I have to start all over. 

 

[Taoist Texts]

24 minutes ago, Mudfoot said:

Lack of formal instruction in Nei Dan. 

ohrely? whats stopping you? there are lots of formal instructors in neidan. you just have to formally fork over the money

 

15 minutes ago, Mudfoot said:

Now I have to start all over. 

its better than to end all over

 

[freeform]

8 hours ago, Mudfoot said:

He looks old, so he didn't achieve Immortality in his youth? 

 

No - nothing like that - he seems reasonably healthy to me

 

Do you see any ‘internal skill’ in his movements or body?

[MooNiNite]

13 hours ago, Mudfoot said:

Unless you prefer your Jing cold. 😁 

i dont get it.

[liminal_luke]

OK, so technically this is fire over water and not the other way around but still...can you feel the alchemy?  To me the image evokes a certain sweetness.  

Edited February 3, 2019 by liminal_luke

[whitesilk]

On 1/31/2019 at 6:29 AM, yuuichi said:

Also, I’m aware that Water is Kan (☵), Fire is Li (☲)

 

Do you have an I Ching?

 

Kan over Li?

 

Quotes taken from ISBN-10: 0-691-09750-X

 

Kan: "the Abysmal is full in the middle."

 

Li: "the Clinging is empty in the middle."

 

Chi Chi:

 

"The Judgement

 After Completion. Success in small matters.

 Perserverance furthers.

 At the beginning good fortune,

 At the end disorder."

[whitesilk]

8 hours ago, Wu Ming Jen said:

A south pole (fire, heaven, yang so on) at the crown of the head and a north pole (water, earth, yin so on and so on) at the base. Interesting that the inventors of the compass have a south pointing needle, the south on top (advance, summer, fire and so on and so on..

 

The centers of energy at the centers of the palms respond quicker to heat than the balls of the feet. Our soles are connected at the ankle, yet I hope than Ann is well.

[whitesilk]

On 1/31/2019 at 7:46 AM, Bindi said:

In the Nei jing tu diagram water is brought up from below continually, much in line with the Neiye's fount of qi, and 'fire' is brought down from the head.

 

Thank you for that Image Bindi! I've read descriptions of the image before, Would you describe the four yin/yang or tai chi tu symbols near the ox?

[doc benway]

 

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by steve

[Bindi]

Awakening to Reality by Zhang Boduan

Poem 9

The Yin essence within Yang is not a firm substance: if you cultivate only this thing you will become ever more weak.

Toiling your body by pressing and pulling is certainly not the Way, ingesting breath and swallowing mist is entirely foolish.

The whole world recklessly tries to subdue Lead and Mercury ­ when will they be able to see Dragon and Tiger submitted?

I exhort you to probe and grasp the place where one comes to life: return to the fundament, revert to the origin, and you are a Medicine King.