Water above Fire

[Mudfoot]

55 minutes ago, freeform said:

Are they selective with what students they take on?

As the joke goes: I wouldn't want to study under a teacher that would accept me as a student 🤪

 

As for the rest: If I ever find one that can live up to that (remembering that I am a householder with family responsibility so I cannot just uproot myself), I would be delighted. 

[Mudfoot]

On 2019-02-04 at 2:07 AM, Bindi said:

 

From Pregadio - 

Water thus turns into a fiery furnace, which heats the lower Cinnabar Field placed near the four Yin-Yang symbols; these stand for the four external agents (Wood, Fire, Metal, Water), with the fifth one (the central Soil) represented by their conjunction. 

Interestingly, the xiuzhentu has a different explanation, where the fire is not represented by one of the yin-yang symbols. Considering the fire in the pan below, xiuzhentu might be an adequate reference. 

[Taoist Texts]

3 hours ago, Mudfoot said:

Who would I trust with my money? 

 

Depends on the amount. You get what you pay for, you know.

1 hour ago, freeform said:

 Can they project Qi? (Not ‘oh I think I might have felt something maybe’ - but fall to the floor from the intensity type experience) 

 

Can they manifest and demonstrate Yin Qi and Yang Qi (sending electric shocks, or strong (painful) contractive waves through your body.  

 

Taser Pulse with 2 Cartridges, LED Laser with/2 Cartridges, and Target,Black

by Taser

4.3 out of 5 stars    46 customer reviews

| 176 answered questions

New (3) from $329.99

 

 

[Mudfoot]

43 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

Depends on the amount. You get what you pay for, you know.

As far as I have seen, Wang Li Ping knew how to extract money out of students. 

So is that an endorsement? 😁

[freeform]

1 hour ago, Mudfoot said:

As for the rest: If I ever find one that can live up to that (remembering that I am a householder with family responsibility so I cannot just uproot myself), I would be delighted. 

 

Meh - I reckon go for one with the basics down. That’s unbelievably rare anyway. Training with someone like that and actually progressing past the foundations usually opens doors that were hidden from view.

[Taoist Texts]

10 hours ago, Mudfoot said:

As far as I have seen, Wang Li Ping knew how to extract money out of students. 

So is that an endorsement? 😁

No, i dont endorse teachers,(xcept for myself of course), they are all ignorant.

That was an inside joke poking fun at the likes of Wang and his students. (the joke fell flat but i am still smirking)

Btw, no offense to our young friend here, but his bucket list of shiny trinkets is as far from neidan as humanly possible. By now you should have known better than to be delighted by it.

[Mudfoot]

1 hour ago, Taoist Texts said:

 

That was an inside joke poking fun at the likes of Wang and his students. (the joke fell flat

Actually, I smiled at "you get what you pay for", with the implication that if you buy a dream, you get illusion. 

Quote

Btw, no offense to our young friend here, but his bucket list of shiny trinkets is as far from neidan as humanly possible. 

No. I have read Twickens book (Chia style). 

Quote

By now you should have known better than to be delighted by it.

Well, I would not mind being equipped with a bag full of interesting abilities. 

My practice doesn't seem to go in that direction, and I wouldn't quit what I practice, widening my horizons on the other hand...... 

 

Maybe I should write a list. 

1)My teacher, in a seminar in Sri Lanka, made a man fly back several times just by pointing at him (Ok, they thought he had mental issues, and my teacher have never managed to do this again, but that is beside the point). And there is a video of me, 1999, practicing Lin Kong Jing. I hope you never see that one 🤪

2) My teachers teacher claimed he could see through walls (that would have been useful when I was sixteen). 

3) James McNeil claims he saw his 150 years old teacher levitate under the ceiling. I might find a use for that. 

4) Damo Mitchell saw a man partially desintegrate before him. Wouldn't that be awesome? 

 

Edited February 17, 2019 by Mudfoot
Added stuff, mostly stupid stuff.

[Taoist Texts]

1 hour ago, Mudfoot said:

And there is a video of me, 1999, practicing Lin Kong Jing. I hope you never see that one 🤪

awww thats not fair!

 

1 hour ago, Mudfoot said:

when I was sixteen)

are not we all, at  heart)

[freeform]

8 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

Btw, no offense to our young friend here, but his bucket list of shiny trinkets is as far from neidan as humanly possible. By now you should have known better than to be delighted by it.

 

 

Michael Winn certainly agrees.

[freeform]

PS. A lot of the ‘shiny trinkets’ mentioned are actually the result of just having your channels fully open... before Neidan is even of any relevance.

[voidisyinyang]

40 minutes ago, freeform said:

PS. A lot of the ‘shiny trinkets’ mentioned are actually the result of just having your channels fully open... before Neidan is even of any relevance.

https://archive.org/stream/TaoistYogaAlchemyAndImmortalityLuKuanYCharlesLuk/Taoist Yoga Alchemy and Immortality Lu K’uan Yü (Charles Luk)_djvu.txt

 

This book proves all the "levels" of "neidan" are interwoven.

 

[Mudfoot]

3 hours ago, freeform said:

PS. A lot of the ‘shiny trinkets’ mentioned are actually the result of just having your channels fully open... before Neidan is even of any relevance.

So they show skill in qigong/neigong/insert term here/ but are not related to skill or accomplishment in Nei Dan? 

 

And teachers like Ian Duncan (Long Men Pai) strongly advices to stay away from teachers that use zapping as promotion. 

 

Unfortunately, this only shows that different teachers have very separate opinions on the subject. 

 

Maybe we should go back to how to invert Water and Fire? 

Headstand was it? The only way to get the kidneys above the heart? 

 

[voidisyinyang]

49 minutes ago, Mudfoot said:

So they show skill in qigong/neigong/insert term here/ but are not related to skill or accomplishment in Nei Dan? 

 

And teachers like Ian Duncan (Long Men Pai) strongly advices to stay away from teachers that use zapping as promotion. 

 

Unfortunately, this only shows that different teachers have very separate opinions on the subject. 

 

Maybe we should go back to how to invert Water and Fire? 

Headstand was it? The only way to get the kidneys above the heart? 

 

No it's the Quick Fire breathing method.

only?

Quote

Only the saints and sages know the method of reversing the mechanism of life to return to its very source.

only?

Quote

You should not only know when this agent is not being made but also distinguish its premature from its overdue production. For the mere gathering of deficient vitality leads to no result;

only?

Quote

If vitality is felt to be deficient you should not hastily gather this agent but should wait until vitality is fully developed; only then can the generative force be transmuted into vitality to invigorate the brain.

only?

Quote

For ventilation (by in and out breathing), the ascent of positive and descent of negative fire, the cauldron and stove, are so-called and come into play only after the generative and vital forces have vibrated.

only?

Quote

The bellows (t’o yo) or the bagpipe works in the body; it cannot be found in the absence of the generative and vital forces and manifests only when vitality vibrates under the navel.

only?

Quote

At present you just sit motionless, close your eyes and then make the ascents and descents 360 times; this is purposeless turning of empty water-wheels and is not the proper method of preparing the golden elixir. It is because when you began to meditate your mind was disturbed by thoughts that you were taught to make 360 turns to achieve mental stillness only. Your body is now so weak that if you fail to restore the generative force you will not be able to improve your health.

only?

Quote

Likewise the alchemical agent can be gathered only after (the generative force has been) purified by fire; only then can it produce the golden elixir, otherwise it will decay.

only?

Quote

This liquid contains spermatozoa; if it follows its earthly course it will flow out to produce offspring; but if it reverses this course it will contribute to the production of the golden elixir. This is only a matter of following or reversing the way of the world, which the ordinary man cannot understand. So it is imperative that you call on enlightened masters in order not to spoil your future.

only?

Quote

‘Shifting’ is motionless change, that is transmutation by quick fire which results in nothing any longer having form or shape whether seen closely or from a distance, and includes the elimination of every impure residue. Only this can be called true efficiency.

only?

Quote

As you have said, you have only begun to fill your testicles; later on when they are full, if you do not raise and lower the fire, this is like making bricks without baking them so that they are hard and resistant; they will turn to mud again when exposed to rain.

only?

Quote

Hence Liu Hua Yang said: ‘A long practice will mature the generative force to transmute it into vitality, for the generative force is only immature vitality.’

only?

Quote

You have only realised the negative spirit which appears during the preliminary step of practice. When you close your eyes and see a white light in front of you it is negative spirit which is absolutely useless.

only?

Quote

Only by daily practice of holding on to the centre of vitality (under the navel) to realise the oneness (of all things) can the union of heart and lower abdomen be achieved in the state of (mental) stillness. This can never be done by worldly men in their sleep.

only?

FINALLY:

Quote

For when positive vitality manifests it always tends to sink and disperse. Spirit can hold vitality [qi] only temporarily but lacks the driving power of breathing, and without breathing, vitality cannot be driven into the channels of control and function (to circulate in the microcosmic orbit) and will finally drain away by the genital gate; this is caused by the lack of pressure from in and out breathing.

that is the secret of Quick Fire.

[Taoist Texts]

1 hour ago, Mudfoot said:

 

 

Maybe we should go back to how to invert Water and Fire? 

 

 

 

A Record of the Assembled Immortals and Gathered Perfected of the Western ...

By Richard Bertschinger

[voidisyinyang]

1 hour ago, Taoist Texts said:

 

A Record of the Assembled Immortals and Gathered Perfected of the Western ...

By Richard Bertschinger

 

Quote

When (positive) unites with (negative) spirit to produce one uniform prenatal spirit, the latter derives from the union of nature and life vitalities as shown in the following diagram:

so let's check out this diagram.

oK as I mentioned before - the left eye is yang shen (positive spirit) but it is nature vitality (negative qi or yin qi). The right eye is yin shen (negative spirit) but also life vitality (yang qi). So by rotating the eyes - then the water and fire copulate as dragon and tiger - while the external sun and and moon (spirits) intermingle - thereby intermingling the internal sun and moon (heart and lower tan t'ien).

https://archive.org/stream/TaoistYogaAlchemyAndImmortalityLuKuanYCharlesLuk/Taoist Yoga Alchemy and Immortality Lu K’uan Yü (Charles Luk)_djvu.txt

we can word search.

ok so it's page 158 - for the image. But this website does not allow cut and paste  from pdfs - unless you know how to do it?

https://the-eye.eu/public/concen.org/Kundalini Tantra Yoga Chakra Meditation [second book pack]/PDF/Lu K Uan Yu - Taoist Yoga Alchemy and Immortality.pdf

So the image is a Venn diagram. So the 3 circles - the top is number 1 as Essential Nature. So it is positive spirit as the upper body but it is also negative vitality or yin qi. The number 2 is the lower tan t'ien as negative spirit of the lower body but it is also yang qi or positive yang. So the yang qi has to be sublimated up while the yin qi has to descend down with the positive spirit going down. Then in the center you get the creation of the PreNatal Spirit-Vitality or Yuan Shen-Qi through the heart, the middle tan t'ien.

 

 

 

[freeform]

3 hours ago, Mudfoot said:

to stay away from teachers that use zapping as promotion. 

 

Yeah he’s right - I’d personally stay away from teachers using any such demos for promotion. I’ve only experienced this projected zapping as part of a healing session. Wasn’t expecting it either 😬

 

3 hours ago, Mudfoot said:

So they show skill in qigong/neigong/insert term here/ but are not related to skill or accomplishment in Nei Dan?

 

It’s tricky to be exact because at certain stages of Neigong, aspects of Neidan will start to intersect. For example the water and fire mixing already gets going automatically in the early to intermediate Neigong stages. 

 

In the lineage I’m training - yes you open all the channels... start building internal Yin Qi and Yang Qi and build a physical Dantien before moving on to Neidan. The Qi projection is only taught to certain individuals who are very proficient in medicine - a few of the senior students can do it... and it’s all done before going on to actual Neidan training. At the very least a decade’s worth of dedicated practice there.

Edited February 17, 2019 by freeform

[voidisyinyang]

 I was able to take a closer look at this dynamic of the golden yang shen in contrast to the boundless body as the Fa Shen - or spiritual body of yuan qi-yuan shen.

https://elixirfield.blogspot.com/2019/02/freezing-spirit-part-3.html

I posted images as quotes from the book. thanks

 

[Taoist Texts]

6 hours ago, voidisyinyang said:

But this website does not allow cut and paste  from pdfs - unless you know how to do it?

Yes. First you snip the needed area of the pdf page with this

https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/help/13776/windows-use-snipping-tool-to-capture-screenshots

 

then you copy the resulting picture and paste it directly into your post.

[Mudfoot]

6 hours ago, freeform said:

 

The Qi projection is only taught to certain individuals who are very proficient in medicine - a few of the senior students can do it... 

In the Copper Wall Project, they measured electrostatic phenomena in healers but not in experienced meditators. 

[Mudfoot]

3 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

Yes. First you snip the needed area of the pdf page with this

 

then you copy the resulting picture and paste it directly into your post.

What have you done 🙊? 

You have opened Pandoras box 📦, and let out the potential of record-long posts. 

[voidisyinyang]

fan-tastic

 

Edited February 18, 2019 by voidisyinyang

[voidisyinyang]

28 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

Yes. First you snip the needed area of the pdf page with this

https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/help/13776/windows-use-snipping-tool-to-capture-screenshots

 

then you copy the resulting picture and paste it directly into your post.

thanks - I get no results from searching "snipping tool" - yes whatever operating window systems I have - doesn't seem to allow saving a snipped image. strange.

[voidisyinyang]

36 minutes ago, Mudfoot said:

What have you done 🙊? 

You have opened Pandoras box 📦, and let out the potential of record-long posts. 

Basically you know what Socrates taught, "Know Thy Self" - and this is called "logical inference" - so the self is defined as the "I thought" (as in god defined as "I Am that I am."  So you repeat the I-thought as I-I-I-I and you "logically infer" that any thought that arises in your mind is based on this sense of I - and that is just the logical truth.

 

So to KNOW the source of the I-thought you repeat the I-thought without allowing any other thoughts. Then when the I-thought "congeals" or concentrates - you listen to the source of the I-thought (or logical infer the source of the I-thought). This truth is then "experiential" based on your logical inference. So that means whatever words you use to describe this experiential truth are also derived from the I-thought and so the truth of those words also must be logical inferred.

 

So this sets up an eternal process of energy creation that is self-organizing based on eternal listening. The "yuan qi-Yuan shen" is experienced first in chapter 6 of that book. But that's only the "first half" of enlightenment. To "finish the job" as it were - then that first yuan shen arising from the yin shen - when the yang qi fills up - then you have to purify it more by building up more yuan qi. So that is the 2nd half of the training - to "empty out the body" (that is the phrase that Master Nan, Huai-chin uses).

You can try reading his books on Buddhist Ch'an philosophy - as they deal with the logical paradoxes of logical inference.

 

The books are out of print - but go into the various "skandas" - they can be found online as free pdfs if you really dig for them. "To Realize Enlightement" and "Working Towards Enlightenment" and - what's the third one - there's also "Tao and Longevity" - and he had a couple more. Then Bill Bodri has written many books based on his following of Master Nan, Huai-chin - so his tome "Measuring Meditation" is a cross-referential analysis - comparing buddhism with vedanta (advaita) and daoism - and western esoteric studies.

 

Yes the problem is that the "mind" is how we normally define our "selves" - and so this is a deep psycho-physiological rewiring of reality. Then in the 2nd half of enlightenment - even our spirit as spiritual ego is then interacting with our people's spirits or just other spirits - and all these interactions then have to be "emptied out" back into the Yuan Qi of the universe itself. So the more "powers" we develop the more we have to realize that the Power IS the Emptiness - that only really the Yuan Qi exists. This was the focus of Ramana Maharshi's teachings. You can read his books as well - although he is frequently misunderstood in the West also.

 

Yes so basically when we are in "deep dreamless sleep" - that is actually our real SELF but we are just not "aware" of it consciously. And then to become consciously "aware" of it - means that the spirit light becomes so bright - as intensity of energy - that it "jumps" (think of a quantum leap) into a higher vortex of spacetime.

 

So for me, when I experienced this "spacetime vortex" as the Emptiness - the Yuan Qi energy directly of the full body - this is what really freaked me out. I didn't know what that meant. Actually it is described in chapter 11 of the Taoist Yoga book - stating if you sublimate and raise up your spirit of vitality (from the yang qi) - as the yin shen - without enough yuan qi surrounding the shen - then this will cause dizziness and confusion.

 

So this means the lower tan t'ien has to be focused on to keep building up the Yuan Qi energy and this can only be done through purification by fire (through the yin shen and yang shen cross-resonating with the yin qi and yang qi) to create more yuan qi-yuan shen-yuan jing.

 

Yes I admit - it is all quite esoteric and also the logic is very cruel. For example the Yuan Qi logic is NOT tantra - so it's not based on the psychic different of forms (of an external form of light as beauty). The SELF has to "merge" back into the formless as logical inference - so that the source of the light can not be seen. So again this is like Deep Dreamless Sleep - only the light is so bright that you lose your sense of self. But at the same time there are still "spacetime" or yuan qi transformations - only there has to be an inherent "difference" that is not simultaneous.

 

In other words - from the perspective of the  Yuan Shen (the self of no self) then EVERYTHING is happening at the same time (since at zero rest mass light experiences no space and no time). BUT in fact the Yuan Shen is resonating the Yuan Qi (and vice versa) - and the Yuan Qi is changes in spacetime that then creates new Yuan Jing (as new matter). So this is the equivalent of "capturing" virtual matter from the future. Qigong master Yan Xin calls his healing - a "virtual information field" - so that is what is being referred to. So it truly means the Emptiness does the healing (and this is the truth of Shakti as well).

 

So it is a stunning experience - like for example Precognition! If you experience something - only to realize you had dreamt that very specific experience before - then you have to realize that what our "minds" think of as "reality" is not the actual real "truth" of reality. It is easy to be like the Matrix - when Keanu is constantly being told he is NOT the "one" but this only reinforces that he "is" the One via the Trinity (as love) and then Cipher - the traitor - says - "his mind is gonna blow."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Taoist Texts]

2 hours ago, Mudfoot said:

What have you done 🙊? 

 

Edited February 18, 2019 by Taoist Texts

[Taoist Texts]

1 hour ago, voidisyinyang said:

doesn't seem to allow saving a snipped image. strange.

try this. it allows to save snip on web and insert from there

https://app.prntscr.com/en/index.html