Concepts Etcetera

[Zen Pig]

14 minutes ago, King Jade said:

Is that phrase "you are already it but you need to be aware of it" misleading in our language, meaning, it makes it seem like you don't need to do any training, but you actually need either way because if not then you die after all, poofffff...?

yes. no. maybe.  if you want to mediate, then meditate, if not, then don't simple. nothing to obtain. don't over think it. 

[Lakshmi]

2 minutes ago, Zen Pig said:

yes. no. maybe.  if you want to mediate, then meditate, if not, then don't simple. nothing to obtain. don't over think it. 

 

I practice yoga and meditate because I enjoy doing these things. It's as simple as that.

[Everything]

2 hours ago, King Jade said:

Sorry this is what I don't understand of y'all

 

some will say "you are already it but you need to be aware of it"

(not targeting you exactly, Lasksmi)

 

Why meditate and why train?

 

What's the goal?

 

Is realizing and being "awakened" a goal different than building a dan and all that other shiz?

are they exclusive things?

 

Do you need to realize that youre It first and then your body receives the signals from mother ship and voila your body is now changing to what it was to be?

 

Is that phrase "you are already it but you need to be aware of it" misleading in our language, meaning, it makes it seem like you don't need to do any training, but you actually need either way because if not then you die after all, poofffff...?
 

 

 

 

It is the easiest thing in the world, so easy infact, that you can never do it! And that is why it will forever require your discipline, to prevent yourself from doing the very thing that has been blocking your own ever greater realisation evermore. 

 

You meditate, to quiet your mind. Because when you quiet your mind, there is no resistant thought. When there is no resistant thought, your greater knowing, can be allowed to be known by you. Or as iluminairen called it, your inner flame or spark, can become aware to you or by you. 

 

You can simply look at a point in the open day sky. And simply place your full attention on the sight. Or a candle is possible too. 

 

Someone said here, that if you don't move your eyes, you stop thinking. That is a very good thing to know. It kinda works for me that way. So when you no longer offer thought, now you are ready to finally RECEIVE thought that has been flowing to you all of your life, but you have not been able of allowing yourself to receive it. 

 

Kinda like that, and you think, oh... So subtle. And yet so simple. And obliviously obvious. So obvious that I have become oblivious to it. 

[Everything]

2 hours ago, Zen Pig said:

yes. no. maybe.  if you want to mediate, then meditate, if not, then don't simple. nothing to obtain. don't over think it. 

 

2 hours ago, Lakshmi said:

 

I practice yoga and meditate because I enjoy doing these things. It's as simple as that.

Look these two give you two beautiful perspectives. Now you can never misunderstand. You meditate for the joy. 

 

That's it. And then your joy can be anything, to do something else than meditation or to meditate even. But if you're not feeling joy, then simply meditate! Cause that's the point of your life. 

 

No not meditation. Joy is. But if your joy is to meditate, then you meditate in order to meditate even more fully. 

 

It's like, you enjoy releasing resistance. So you wanna meditate even more fully. And enjoy life even more unconditionally. 

 

It's the same when someone becomes angry and then counts to 10. He or she is meditating. 

 

If you're feeling fear. You simply meditate. And joy is yours again. 

[sustainablefarm86]

5 hours ago, Zen Pig said:

yes. no. maybe.  if you want to mediate, then meditate, if not, then don't simple. nothing to obtain. don't over think it. 

 

 I'm talking about end goals. A lot of people go on and on about "immortality" and siddhis and it looks desirable obviously  and maybe the only goal that looks real   

Assuming it is real and achievable, isn't that  the one thing to be obtained?   

Is that an exclusive way? Does no-training lead to that other one? Are we inherently that? Do we upgrade something in ourselves to that?  Does feeling free and full of joy, realized and egoless NOW and not seeking anything, have anything to do with siddhis and immortality? Why shouldn't one pursue the latter if that's something that can be pursued?

 

not saying you guys dont know anything or don't have anything but I'd like to also hear opinions of someone who has gone all the way through that roads and training and has demonstrable actual power, and then say how it is like in the endgame and if it doesn't matter in the end, or if it actually matters, personal experience, especially since we all in this age could theorically seek it.

I'm not fond of new age texts.

Edited February 4, 2019 by King Jade
Added texts and more texts

[Everything]

9 minutes ago, King Jade said:

 

 I'm talking about end goals. A lot of people go on and on about "immortality" and siddhis and it looks desirable obviously  and maybe the only goal that looks real   

Assuming it is real, isn't that  the one thing to be obtained?   

Is that an exclusive way? Does no-training lead to that other one? Are we inherently that? Do we upgrade something in ourselves to that? Are you that?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Everything you have ever wanted, immortality, conjure money, or whatever, you have always wanted because you thought you would feel better in the having of it. 

If you meditate, and then feel better, meditate untill eventually you feel that joy, everything in your life will change for the better. Everything you truely want will come to you effortlessly. Magically. But actually completely normal and naturally. 

 

It is a subtle energy motional allowance of releasing resistance. 

 

When you sleep, you are there too, but you are unconscious of it, unless you have been feeling joy. Then you consciously recognize how you felt during your sleep.

 

If you die you are there too, and always fully conscious of it. 

 

But if you meditate, you are there and conscious and in your body. And fully alive and awake and joyful. That's the whole point. 

Edited February 4, 2019 by Everything

[sustainablefarm86]

.

Edited February 4, 2019 by King Jade
graduated

[rideforever]

11 hours ago, Lakshmi said:

It is literally true.

 

You .... dance the Paso Doble ?
Show, show ...
Show us this Paso Doble ...

 

( Hari Om Tat Sat )

 

 

[Zen Pig]

10 hours ago, King Jade said:

Does feeling free and full of joy, realized and egoless NOW and not seeking anything, have anything to do with siddhis and immortality? Why shouldn't one pursue the latter if that's something that can be pursued?

well,  where do I start? 

for one thing I meditate, just to meditate, without expecting or wanting or needing to "obtain" anything.  so I don't sit to "find joy" or to "feel free".  all of those things are already here, have always been right here. nothing for me to obtain.  from my experience life is so simple that we do not see it.  We "think" we need special powers, or need to become immortal,  because that very thing in us, the very thoughts that think we need something else, is the very thing that holds us back.

 

Side note on "special powers"......

Many read books or watch youtube, (or shittube as i call it)  that makes us think that our "will power" or thinking mind is the key to special powers.  Once again,  the little monkey mind is the very thing that prevents us from seeing what is right here, and what is right here is more amazing than any promise of being special or special powers.  Things like esp,  or how life suddenly comes into alignment with us,  happens naturally,  and comes up when it is needed, like all things, and is beyond amazing. 

our little mind does not and can not control these things, (in my experience) of course, I might be wrong on that.  there might be a few folks out there like Dr. Strange, who can bend the universe into his/her will. never met one,  but i would be a dumb shit if I said it was impossible. good luck

[wandelaar]

@ Zen Pig

 

You keep on bashing the thinking mind. But it is not the thinking mind that is after immortality or supernatural powers. The thinking mind is just a tool. It is rather the wish to rise above ordinary existence that is to blame. There are some nice stories in the Taoist and Zen tradition about those guys who waste their time and energy to ride in the sky and those kind of things. All they will accomplish by that is that the boundary of what they can do will shift a little bit, but the basic problem will not be solved. The basic problem is acknowledging that we are only part of the world and that we are therefore not all-powerful. The reason that we can navigate in the world is exactly that the world acts according to its own rules that we can then take as a given. As soon as you accept that, you will see that the "ordinary things" that you can do are actually quite amazing. It just needs some extra attention to become aware of it. The obstacle here is not the thinking mind but the mindless labelling of things and processes as such and so, and the illusion that that is all there is to it.

[3bob]

a fringe benefit of Self-Realization is the dharmic use of the tools of the mind or mental powers,  otherwise or if its not of dharmic usage then its a rocket ride into the hell realms.

[wandelaar]

10 minutes ago, 3bob said:

a fringe benefit of Self-Realization is the dharmic use of the tools of the mind or mental powers,  otherwise or if its not of dharmic usage then its a rocket ride into the hell realms.

 

Then how do you post on The Dao Bums without using your thinking mind or landing in the hell realms?

 

I always wonder how people just keep on bashing the thinking mind, science and technology even while they are using it!

[Zen Pig]

38 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

You keep on bashing the thinking mind

Not bashing the thinking mind. 

 

The thinking mind is a great tool.  I am kind of using it right now in fact,,,,,,, well a bit....... LOL. 

The idea, like any good tool, is to use the thinking mind for what we need it for.  from what I have seen in both myself and others,  we , especially in the west,  identify with our thinking to the extent that we believe that our thinking is the core of who we are, not just another aspect of who we are. 

Proof in point is sites like the one we are on right now.  many people want to think out how to become enlightened through the rational mind.  well, good luck with that.  the only metaphor I can use is doing martial arts.  I have know guys who start doing MA and try to think out how they will respond or move, and they end up on the mat looking at the ceiling.  In order to do good MA, one must train, (much like meditation), and then learn to let go of thinking and react in the moment.  MA is great Zen in that way.  

 

Lastly, if you are looking for something to disagree with in post, you will always find something. 

If you are looking for something to be butt hurt about,  you will always find something. 

sometimes these post have to be taken in the manner they were intended.  to put words like "bash" or to bring a ad hominem argument while fun, gets boring after a while.  

[wandelaar]

Yes - discussions get boring after a while. At some point you know the positions of the Bums, and from there on it tends to move around in circles.

[3bob]

1 hour ago, wandelaar said:

 

Then how do you post on The Dao Bums without using your thinking mind or landing in the hell realms?

 

I always wonder how people just keep on bashing the thinking mind, science and technology even while they are using it!

 

the aspects and power of the thinking mind of what many call the "waking" state is just a part of the total mind which includes the higher astral and also super-conscious realm.  (which if dharmically misused is not unlike a rocket being mis-aimed and burning up on impact with the ground)

 

think of or try to use the analogy of inductive reactance in an electrical circuit,   where if the induced resistance increases in proportion to current flow then limits are reached and if pushed further then something will have to give or burn up...but if the resistance decreases then more current can flow without the circuit burning up. 

Edited February 4, 2019 by 3bob

[Everything]

 

7 hours ago, wandelaar said:

 

Then how do you post on The Dao Bums without using your thinking mind or landing in the hell realms?

 

I always wonder how people just keep on bashing the thinking mind, science and technology even while they are using it!

Technology is good.

It brings people all over the world together, doesn't it?

It spreads the benefit of good people all throughout.

It spreads knowledge and wisdom all around.

It allows us to see the truth of unhelpful aspects of life we can all just let go of together more easily collectively.

It unites and expands the collective consciousness.

It makes everything feel right within reach at all times.

It makes solutions easy to find, often difficult events require knowledge of very few simple things.

Technology is so useful, even doctors use google nowadays.

 

[Lakshmi]

On 4.2.2019 at 3:34 AM, Everything said:

 

Look these two give you two beautiful perspectives. Now you can never misunderstand. You meditate for the joy. 

 

That's it. And then your joy can be anything, to do something else than meditation or to meditate even. But if you're not feeling joy, then simply meditate! Cause that's the point of your life. 

 

No not meditation. Joy is. But if your joy is to meditate, then you meditate in order to meditate even more fully. 

 

It's like, you enjoy releasing resistance. So you wanna meditate even more fully. And enjoy life even more unconditionally. 

 

It's the same when someone becomes angry and then counts to 10. He or she is meditating. 

 

If you're feeling fear. You simply meditate. And joy is yours again. 

 

That's beautiful, Everything.

 

Thank you.

[Lakshmi]

18 hours ago, rideforever said:

 

You .... dance the Paso Doble ?
Show, show ...
Show us this Paso Doble ...

 

( Hari Om Tat Sat )

 

 

 

I can do some Indian classical dances, but no Paso Doble, I'm afraid.

[rideforever]

Good enough !

[Everything]

On 4-2-2019 at 4:35 PM, 3bob said:

 

the aspects and power of the thinking mind of what many call the "waking" state is just a part of the total mind which includes the higher astral and also super-conscious realm.  (which if dharmically misused is not unlike a rocket being mis-aimed and burning up on impact with the ground)

 

think of or try to use the analogy of inductive reactance in an electrical circuit,   where if the induced resistance increases in proportion to current flow then limits are reached and if pushed further then something will have to give or burn up...but if the resistance decreases then more current can flow without the circuit burning up. 

Thus, your greatest fear in life, is your highest joy. Your greatest grief your highest love. Your greatest despair, your highest freedom. Your greatest allowance, your highest resistance. 

 

For when you realise, your highest joy. And you realise, you want it to never end. There is but one choice to make. To end your highest joy, with all your power and might, that is now limitless in the nature you have accomplished it, and fail evermore, only to rise higher and higher, into rapturous extacies of blissful expansions of endless and timeless creation after creation. Where there is no path, that is not your path, evermore, the path of all pathways, the freedom of all freedoms, of a joy that knows no condition, and will thus never become, thus you are allowed to feel it evermore. Unconditionally. 

 

Wether you burn in fires, that endlessly heat up, and shred you in endless inunitable chaos... Or freeze in colds, of void, that do not seeze to colden and expand the resolution of your desnity through the cracks and dents of your ever crushed being, exploding in shards of unrepairable crystals forever lost in the endlessly expanding voids of space. 

 

Say joy, because it all is. And forever will be, evermore. Who it is you truely are, in your evermore becoming. Evermore. 

Edited February 6, 2019 by Everything

[3bob]

8 hours ago, Everything said:

Thus, your greatest fear in life, is your highest joy. Your greatest grief your highest love. Your greatest despair, your highest freedom. Your greatest allowance, your highest resistance. 

 

For when you realise, your highest joy. And you realise, you want it to never end. There is but one choice to make. To end your highest joy, with all your power and might, that is now limitless in the nature you have accomplished it, and fail evermore, only to rise higher and higher, into rapturous extacies of blissful expansions of endless and timeless creation after creation. Where there is no path, that is not your path, evermore, the path of all pathways, the freedom of all freedoms, of a joy that knows no condition, and will thus never become, thus you are allowed to feel it evermore. Unconditionally. 

 

Wether you burn in fires, that endlessly heat up, and shred you in endless inunitable chaos... Or freeze in colds, of void, that do not seeze to colden and expand the resolution of your desnity through the cracks and dents of your ever crushed being, exploding in shards of unrepairable crystals forever lost in the endlessly expanding voids of space. 

 

Say joy, because it all is. And forever will be, evermore. Who it is you truely are, in your evermore becoming. Evermore. 

 

hey happy guy  if you are not writing novels maybe you should be?

[OldDog]

Just read through this thread and a coupke of things occurred to me worth commenting on. 

 

First, absolute certainty is really a ... tautology bordering on foolish the same way an oxymoron does. I wonder, are there degrees of certainty ... sort of certain, fairly certain, almost certain, pretty certain ... then ultimately absolutely certain? As a statement of likelihood, is there anything beyond certain ... computed as 1?  Of course, in a practical sense we are refering to a concept that is unassailably true and verifiable under all conditions.  Still, when I hear absolute certainty I have to laugh ... particularly when we are discussing things that are experiential ... and therefore are only verifiable is the subjective sense. 

 

Which brings me to the next thought ... and for this, keep in mind that we are discussing things that are experiential. The notion that a constant and unchanging you inside of you is silly ... may not be so silly after all but have an actual basis is a daoist discussion. The ancient texts speak of a heart within the heart that is constant and unchanging and that experiencing this heart within the heart is a goal of daoist meditative practice. Now, is this experience what is meant by awakened? Perhaps so but I would carry the notion a little further. In a sense awakened, like certainty, implies completeness, as in done, finished. (I won't go down the trail of absolute awakenedness.) It is the notion of completeness though that I find interesting. If one considers completeness as ... done, finished, now what? ... then I think that we are missing out on the importance of that experience. Alternatively, if we think of completeness in terms of ... having achieved the ability to experience the heart within the heart ... then that provides the abilty for a different level of realization of existence ... and, more importantly, how we as individuals act within existence. Of course, at this point you recognize that what we are talking about is Dao, which is a worthwhile concept for discussion. But, in the end, it is experiential at a subjective level and it is this experiential nature that does not allow for unassailable verification under all conditions or ... absolute certainty. 

 

Kind regards.

 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2019 by OldDog
Grammar

[3bob]

thus it sounds like old dogs may learn new tricks... btw. there is only one of us after septillions x trillions of spin-offs so verification by many under or across all conditions is setting up a false premise

Edited February 6, 2019 by 3bob