Perfection is achieved when there is nothing left to take away

[Lost in Translation]

 

 

Interesting video. Highly relevant to many of the conversations here.

 

[wandelaar]

Very good! This is a great option for some, and I am moving in that direction myself. But I will keep the modern luxury of a washing machine, a record player, the internet, etc...

[Lost in Translation]

4 hours ago, wandelaar said:

Very good! This is a great option for some, and I am moving in that direction myself. But I will keep the modern luxury of a washing machine, a record player, the internet, etc...

 

I think this goes hand in hand with the thread from several weeks ago about simplicity.

 

The allure to a simple life like this is strong, but no electricity? No hot water? Thank you, no. 

[wandelaar]

I already live quite simple, so for me the main step to take will be to stop reading about and discussing everything. I just have to accept that no man can be an expert on everything. But it's difficult.

[Papayapple]

Wow this is interesting. I could do without a washing machine. I'd use one shirt over and over again, hand wash is no problem then.
But no record player! Well, perhaps toward the end of my life I might do without that too.

Her library seems to consist mainly of encyclopedias. I wonder how's that.

[wandelaar]

6 minutes ago, Papayapple said:

Her library seems to consist mainly of encyclopedias. I wonder how's that.

 

Well - I know that one. Encyclopedias were in the old days what the internet is today. I still have some complete encyclopedias at home. But on the second hand market they have become almost worthless nowadays.

 

Edited February 6, 2019 by wandelaar

[freeform]

My understanding is that Daoism calls for a simple life on the inside. Your outer life can be as simple or complex as you like.

 

Plenty of very messed up people who lived this sort of outwardly simple life. 

 

Saying all this, me personally, I’m also more and more drawn to nature and a rural sort of life because I find nature fascinating.

 

But I have no delusions that it will make me any more spiritual or anything like that. In fact many teachers have told me that it’s better to live in large communities and blend in, so that your internal development is regularly tested and put under pressure - otherwise delusion sets in.

[Lost in Translation]

2 hours ago, freeform said:

many teachers have told me that it’s better to live in large communities and blend in, so that your internal development is regularly tested and put under pressure

 

I agree. I know an acupuncturist who is also a very wise man. He once said that large cities  are the best places to achieve enlightenment since such places test you on a daily basis.

[wandelaar]

That may be, but the simple life is in line with chapter 80 of the Tao Te Ching, and modern psychology points in the same direction (at least for those people who voluntarily choose a simple life):

 

https://visionpdf.com/voluntary-simplicity-as-a-well-being-attitude.html

 

Not so strange when we think of the extreme ways that modern life deviates from the natural circumstances in which man evolved.

 

Besides, why go for enlightenment (with the danger of going - temporarily - insane), when it is much easier to accomplish a relatively happy and content life by choosing a life style that accords with the kind of person you are?

 

(But I do think that the simple life isn't fit for young people who still want to explore the world and make some kind of a career.)

[Lost in Translation]

1 minute ago, wandelaar said:

why go for enlightenment (with the danger of going - temporarily - insane), when it is much easier to accomplish a relatively happy and content life by choosing a life style that accords with the kind of person you are?

 

For the same reason that some prefer cinnamon tiramisu while others prefer french vanilla..?

[wandelaar]

Yes - ultimately it's all a matter of taste.

[Rocky Lionmouth]

1 hour ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

For the same reason that some prefer cinnamon tiramisu while others prefer french vanilla..?

 

Thats not a matter of taste, thats just an abomination! Ew!

 

 

Btw, i did a few weeks of living in a log cabin two autumns ago, no electricity or water except what i brought, fireplace for heating, candles and oil lamps for light and a small oil stove for soup and tea. At the time it was precisely right, forced me to focus on hydrating, oxygenating and taking regular meals.

But more permanently? Nope, too much work.

[wandelaar]

It's not all or nothing...

[Lost in Translation]

Perhaps if that cabin were a bit larger and had solar panels on the roof? At least then there could be one power outlet and the ability to run a radio or a laptop when needed. Perhaps even a small gasoline generator in the shed?

[freeform]

9 hours ago, wandelaar said:

That may be, but the simple life is in line with chapter 80 of the Tao Te Ching,

 

Depends a lot on the translation. DDJ is a multifaceted book - what you often get is the translators own biases.

 

 

[wandelaar]

Do you know of a translation of chapter 80 that doesn't promote the simple life?

[freeform]

4 hours ago, wandelaar said:

Do you know of a translation of chapter 80 that doesn't promote the simple life?

 

Simple life on the inside - it’s actually a pretty important point.

[wandelaar]

It is! I never said that simple life on the inside is unimportant.

 

But the posted video promotes simple living on the outside as a way to make simple life on the inside somewhat easier. And this is in line with Lao tzu's chapter 80, whatever his later followers may say.

 

 

Edited February 8, 2019 by wandelaar

[rideforever]

5 hours ago, wandelaar said:

Do you know of a translation of chapter 80 that doesn't promote the simple life?

It promotes the simple life for those which to "grow old and die".

If you wish to become a sage ... perhaps something different is required.

[wandelaar]

16 minutes ago, rideforever said:

It promotes the simple life for those which to "grow old and die".

If you wish to become a sage ... perhaps something different is required.

 

Everyone will grow old and die anyhow. But sages would be quite happy with living out their natural span of life (= to grow old) and die, without wishing and/or looking for some supernatural escape from the natural course of things.

[Lost in Translation]

6 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

 

Everyone will grow old and die anyhow. But sages would be quite happy with living out their natural span of life (= to grow old) and die, without wishing and/or looking for some supernatural escape from the natural course of things.

 

Excellent point! 

 

[rideforever]

To be a sage is to be changed, and to be merged.
Why would the fate of a sage be the same as that of the ignorant, that would not be natural.

[Lost in Translation]

2 minutes ago, rideforever said:

To be a sage is to be changed, and to be merged.
Why would the fate of a sage be the same as that of the ignorant, that would not be natural.

 

To be a sage is to be changed - that I wholeheartedly agree with, but why would the fate of a sage be different than the fate of anyone else?

[rideforever]

1 minute ago, Lost in Translation said:

To be a sage is to be changed - that I wholeheartedly agree with, but why would the fate of a sage be different than the fate of anyone else?

 

Because they can do what others can not.
Because they are what others are not.
Hence they are the sage, and their insights are not those of the mortal men.
Their insights demonstrate their power they have become "different men".

 

Death is of 10,000 things.
But preceding the 10,000 are the three, the two and the one.
The sage is one with the Tao.  One with the One.

He is precedent to death.

This is evidenced by his insights being precedent, coming from a different realm.

 

When you are a sage, you have need of nothing.
You can write poetry all day about this and that.
You are beyond the worlds problems, so what do you owe them.
If the going is hard then you just walk out the city whistling and leave some musings at the last gatepost.

But where you not trained ?
Where you not taught by the ancient cultures, by Confucious, and the books you read ?
Where you not fed by a woman ?
Where you not houses by a man ?
Have you not gained from many ?
Do you not owe much to many ?
Have you paid your dues, or are you leaving slyly to enjoy peace as a pleasure.

 

 

 

 

[Lost in Translation]

17 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Because they can do what others can not.
Because they are what others are not.
Hence they are the sage, and their insights are not those of the mortal men.
Their insights demonstrate their power they have become "different men".

 

Death is of 10,000 things.
But preceding the 10,000 are the three, the two and the one.
The sage is one with the Tao.  One with the One.

He is precedent to death.

This is evidenced by his insights being precedent, coming from a different realm.

 

Thank you for this. Did you write this just now or is this something you had worked on before?