Ah, it's the same old...

[林愛偉]

 

I appreciate where you are coming from and I appreciate your crusade, it is good, however you are assuming things about me which miss the mark, probably out of habit from talking to too many Bozos. I know, I've been on the same crusade too, still am maybe =)

 

 

 

No one is a "Bozo" here friend. If you look back, most of this conversation on the thread was with you.

 

Let's not generally point a finger at the crowd now. If I missed something you were saying, it most likely was because clarity in explaining yourself wasn't there, and or I may have been reading too fast and didn't comprehend very well. For the sake of saying so, I may have read too fast. This thread has carried on for so long, maybe we have all misread your words.

 

But I doubt it.

 

 

Lin

[mYTHmAKER]

Starjumper if your enlightened I don't want to go there.

[Taomeow]

You have a pretty good idea? What from books? Which guru, rinpoche, or pandit did you study with? I cannot but say you highly amuse by your alleged claims of "enlightenment." The same for your concubine.

Huh?

 

SJ and I and another taoing woman share admin tasks at another forum. If that's your idea of what a concubine is, I wonder about your own sex life... Maybe someone forgot to explain to you about birds and bees... Or maybe you're not equipped to have a concubine any other way but virtually... so please don't project this sad situation on either SJ or me.

 

SJ is his own person and argues his own case as he sees fit. I am most certainly not my brother's keeper, but I am quite pleased with having a free-thinking brother who picks his fights wherever he chooses to and conducts them however he deems necessary -- I'm no control freak, unlike what I think you are trying to be here. I have zero need to try to turn him, or anyone else for that matter, into a clone of me. If you have a problem with that... man you're boring.

[AugustLeo]

.

[Buddy]

"SJ and I and another taoing woman share admin tasks at another forum. If that's your idea of what a concubine is, I wonder about your own sex life"

 

A "taoing woman" Perhaps you could elucidate exactly what that might be...

 

And you wonder about my sex life? What a odd and prurient thing for someone who's admitted to having an "enlightenment" experience.

 

"... unsure.gif Maybe someone forgot to explain to you about birds and bees... Or maybe you're not equipped to have a concubine any other way but virtually... so please don't project this sad situation on either SJ or me."

 

See it's this sort of defensive passive aggressiveness that makes me question your alleged "enlightenment" experience. Frankly I think you're all self-delusioned and full of shit.

 

"SJ is his own person and argues his own case as he sees fit. I am most certainly not my brother's keeper, but I am quite pleased with having a free-thinking brother who picks his fights wherever he chooses to and conducts them however he deems necessary "

 

I'd have to lump him in with you. "All sound and fury signifying nothing."

 

-- I'm no control freak, unlike what I think you are trying to be here."

 

Control freak? I can only snicker.

 

"I have zero need to try to turn him, or anyone else for that matter, into a clone of me. If you have a problem with that... man you're boring."

 

No, I agree. Why would anyone want to be a self aggrandizing phony?

Edited March 5, 2008 by Buddy

[Starjumper]

No one is a "Bozo" here friend. If you look back, most of this conversation on the thread was with you.

 

Sorry, I wasn't refering to this thread and us. I'm referring to the whole wide world. And yeah, we'll just have to disagree, but I think we're all Bozos on this bus, and all the other busses that are driving along are full of Bozos too. The world is overflowing with lots and lots of Bozos. Whenever anyone is in the process of thinking then that makes them a Bozo, guaranteed, heck, sometimes I'm one too.

 

People think too much, they cwazy, and I am unanimous in this.

 

Let's not generally point a finger at the crowd now. If I missed something you were saying, it most likely was because clarity in explaining yourself wasn't there, and or I may have been reading too fast and didn't comprehend very well. For the sake of saying so, I may have read too fast. This thread has carried on for so long, maybe we have all misread your words.

 

Well my friend, I have purposely not been trying to be clear. I don't feel like there's much I need to teach anyone here, I just have this automatic response that makes me want to point out errors, I think you have it too. I just point out an error now and then but I'm getting much better at letting people say ridiculous things and leaving them alone.

 

In addition, I'm guessing that English isn't your first language, is that correct?

 

In spite of the appearances, one some level my remarks all mesh and make sense, but to someone like Buddy they just cause anger, I do that on purpose. Some here (that have designated themselves as the silent majority) who have found the level I write at, and who can overlook my penchant for exageration (an honored Taoist practice) may have followed and understood my meanings. I have scattered my info around in little pieces precisely so most people will miss them and not put them together, why should anyone bother? I think most people who have been enlightened will understand where I'm coming from. I'm sure Taomeow knows what I'm referring too because she knows what I stand for and I've previously explained it all with emphasis on clarity for her benefit. She knows it already in any case, it's not like I was teaching her anything.

 

I'm guessing Witch and Cat would get what I've been saying, if they bothered to focus on it, I don't knw if they have. it doesn't matter really.

 

So Lin, I don't blame you for not understanding what I see as the bigger picture I've been displayin ghere because I've made it cloudy on purpose. I just scattered a few bits here and there; possibly enough for some to get it but they would have to review what I've said here and in your enlightenment thread and be in the right frame of mind (which Buddy isn't) in order to get it. Very important, being in the right frame of mind. Also, most people are reading so many other posts by other people that the details get lost and are not put together.

 

Trust me, I like the way Buddy and others like him are responding, I've been meaning for it to cause just that result. I only wish to teach those who want to learn and if those dont' say much then there's nothing to be done about it.

 

It is truly an honor to be insulted by someone like Buddy!!

Edited March 5, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Taomeow]

You're trying too hard, Buddy. I never said you weren't mean enough, just boring.

 

Now if you still want your last word, in case there's still a few slurs you've been nursing and forgot to include, feel free... You would have to do something new to accomplish something new though... but you seem pretty satisfied with being just as mean and boring as ever... so, I've no objections. If that's what you must be, so be it.

[Starjumper]

Starjumper if your enlightened I don't want to go there.

 

I don't know if that's good or not, as I've mentioned several times that I'm not enlightened. Watch out for tricky word definitions there now

 

I have a pretty good idea precisely what kinds of practices is most likely to have a high enlightenment ratio. They exist in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Taoism, but they are quite rare, and it's the path of the sorcerer that I am referring to. Don't worry, I know I'm prejudiced and I like myself anyway.

 

You have a pretty good idea? What from books? Which guru, rinpoche, or pandit did you study with?

 

I knew that would piss you off - but guess what - I'm not selling anything.

 

I cannot but say you highly amuse by your alleged claims of "enlightenment." The same for your concubine.

 

Only on the internet can someone make such boldface nonsensical claims.

 

Just think - what if - Taomeow and I really have experienced enlightenment and look at how you are responding to it, look at yourself and your sureness about it all. Can you hear the sound of distant laughter, Buddy?

 

And Taomeow my concubine? - Yeah, I wish! In my dreams maybe =) We're just two experienced Taoist practitioners, two real live actual 24 X 7 Taoists who have started a Taoism message board with the assistance of another enlightened young lady, how rare it that? Taoists actually running a Taoism message board - seems weird, doesn't it? Not really, I like to surround myself with beautiful women of power.

Edited March 5, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Pietro]

 

After two experiences of enlightenment, I'm after endarkenment. Enlightenment is yet another male/yang value of unbalanced, male/yang tilted times, just like gas-burning vehicles and warfare with explosives and upward-aspiring fire religions and favoring upper-neocortical fire-light ideation in general. No one is interested in that where I belong. The I Ching tells me this to the question about enlightenment:

"It flares up, dies down, is thrown away."

 

Hello.

 

How would you describe "endarkment". I read the word but I just don't seem to be able to relate them to anything. I know of different ways to reach enlightenment. Or to reach different stages, and states, and enlightenments.

 

But to reach an "endarkment" ...

 

maybe you could share what is that you are looking for. And how would you know that you are there. And who, if anyone has reached this stage. And of course what kind of stages and training did they went through to reach it.

 

Would this be possible, for this would greatly help me/us.

 

Thanks,

Pietro

[Starjumper]

I think we're all Bozos on this bus, and all the other buses that are driving around are full of Bozos too. The world is overflowing with lots of Bozos.

 

Just think, Lin, here's a way to have some fun. Next time you are giving a lecture to a group of people just picture them all with big bright red tennis balls on their noses, suspenders on their pants, and bright wild tufts of orange hair sticking out from behind their ears. Go ahead, laugh at them, they'll like it, just don't tell them why.

[林愛偉]

Sorry, I wasn't refering to this thread and us. I'm referring to the whole wide world. And yeah, we'll just have to disagree, but I think we're all Bozos on this bus, and all the other busses that are driving along are full of Bozos too. The world is overflowing with lots and lots of Bozos. Whenever anyone is in the process of thinking then that makes them a Bozo, guaranteed, heck, sometimes I'm one too.

 

People think too much, they cwazy, and I am unanimous in this.

Well my friend, I have purposely not been trying to be clear. I don't feel like there's much I need to teach anyone here, I just have this automatic response that makes me want to point out errors, I think you have it too. I just point out an error now and then but I'm getting much better at letting people say ridiculous things and leaving them alone.

 

In addition, I'm guessing that English isn't your first language, is that correct?

 

In spite of the appearances, one some level my remarks all mesh and make sense, but to someone like Buddy they just cause anger, I do that on purpose. Some here (that have designated themselves as the silent majority) who have found the level I write at, and who can overlook my penchant for exageration (an honored Taoist practice) may have followed and understood my meanings. I have scattered my info around in little pieces precisely so most people will miss them and not put them together, why should anyone bother? I think most people who have been enlightened will understand where I'm coming from. I'm sure Taomeow knows what I'm referring too because she knows what I stand for and I've previously explained it all with emphasis on clarity for her benefit. She knows it already in any case, it's not like I was teaching her anything.

 

I'm guessing Witch and Cat would get what I've been saying, if they bothered to focus on it, I don't knw if they have. it doesn't matter really.

 

So Lin, I don't blame you for not understanding what I see as the bigger picture I've been displayin ghere because I've made it cloudy on purpose. I just scattered a few bits here and there; possibly enough for some to get it but they would have to review what I've said here and in your enlightenment thread and be in the right frame of mind (which Buddy isn't) in order to get it. Very important, being in the right frame of mind.

 

Trust me, I like the way Buddy and others like him are responding, I've been meaning for it to cause just that result. I only wish to teach those who want to learn and if those dont' say much then there's nothing to be done about it.

 

It is truly an honor to be insulted by someone like Buddy!!

 

 

English is my first language. I just don't use it like most people do.

 

Peace and Blessings Brother.

 

Lin

[Taomeow]

Hello.

 

How would you describe "endarkment". I read the word but I just don't seem to be able to relate them to anything. I know of different ways to reach enlightenment. Or to reach different stages, and states, and enlightenments.

 

But to reach an "endarkment" ...

 

maybe you could share what is that you are looking for. And how would you know that you are there. And who, if anyone has reached this stage. And of course what kind of stages and training did they went through to reach it.

 

Would this be possible, for this would greatly help me/us.

 

Thanks,

Pietro

 

Hi Pietro,

 

I'll do my best, but I can only talk about what I'm looking for.

 

Basically, for a Xian Tian (Earlier Heaven) state in the human realm. Xian Tian is a complex concept, I'm presently talking about its human "phase," one's fetal state before birth. Unmanifest but not nonexistent, "doing nothing" yet accomplishing the miracle of unfolding, development, becoming. It's not an idea for me, and it's stronger than a "craving," it's like a need -- put it this way: if someone came to me and said, all right, all bases are covered, you are free to do it -- when do you want to start? -- I would jump and yell, "Now!" Anytime.

 

Who has accomplished it? Everyone who had full-term gestation and remembers it systemically. I remember but I need two more weeks. My Xian Tian experience was incomplete, and I need to complete it. This is part of a larger quest of mine -- the quest for total systemic integration of the normal natural human developmental experience. I don't believe in skipping steps. I have reasons to believe it's absolutely useless to go "elsewhere" if you still have unfinished business "here." I accept karma as a very realistic possibility (no, stronger than that -- "a very high probability"), and if I skip any steps in this life, I'll "owe" them in the next one. That's one reason I don't care much for enlightenment. Getting enlightened while there's still unfinished human business in life --it's like, I dunno, like being a child movie star -- you are making shitloads of money and everybody knows your name and millions of people think you're cute and it's supposed to be a good thing... but in reality it's a horrible thing. You miss out on the only thing you really need instead of all that: your childhood, the one thing other people can't give you back once it's lost no matter how much they like and admire you, the one thing no money can buy you back, and the only person you really need instead of all those roles: yourself.

 

So "endarkenment," in my book, is the opposite state, away from the limelight (whether external or internal, doesn't matter), a state of being you and no one else. The uncarved block -- no, I never cared much for this particular image -- the block carved and chiseled and shaped by billions of years of existence of this universe, millions of years of evolution of all live things that went before, and nine months of fast-forwarding it all in Xian Tian's underwater ballet whose only star and spectator is you -- uncarved by your sloppy contemporaries who carve away the second you're born, never letting you be what you are even for a second... that kind of a deal.

 

How would I go about it? In darkness and silence. Maybe with an appropriate entheogen -- one plant candidate would be iboga. Maybe in a sensory deprivation tank. Maybe with an internal-alchemical process aimed at generating extreme yin. If I knew exactly how, I'd do it as soon as I could wrestle two weeks of private darkness out of this world of electric light...

 

(Witch just sent me a private message per my request describing her procedure, I didn't have a chance to form an opinion yet about it or decide whether I would try something like that, but hers is quite different from what I have in mind and I don't think it would be of interest to you, since it is contingent on being a woman. )

[三江源]

.

Edited March 23, 2015 by 三江源

[Wayfarer64]

When I was nine years old I got to kiss Bozo the Clown's nose on national TV- along with a couple dozen other kids who got to be on the show...

 

It was a great moment in my early life (if not national TV) ...

 

So watch it !!! -with the disparaging of Bozo 'round here... He was a nasty carmudgin in person -so Buddy-you would have liked him sans make-up...

 

In make up he was a smarmy bastid but friendly...

It takes all kinds and a Bozo on the surface may be something all together different underneith...

Namaste-

[doc benway]

Aren't they similar? Certainly, meditation would be boring if all that came up were physical pain. I was more referring to allowing a pain to build past the breaking point.

 

A smarter thing to do is to let the pain flow through before it gets to that point, but I'm not always that smart. And we have areas of resistance that we don't know we have until pain makes them obvious.

All so true and well stated - you am me both!

 

Are you trying to tell me to meditate?

Hell no! I'm trying to get you to ask the question!!!

[Stigweard]

StarJumper,

 

I would like to confirm alot of what you are saying with my own experiences including:

 

* Various experiences of insight / enlightenment

* Profound Qi perception -- radar hands etc.

* Taoism as sorcery

* etc. etc.

 

Your words can only originate from experience so I salute you as a brother and compadre of the way.

 

 

So what I am about to say comes from someone who stands as a friendly contemporary practitioner claiming no superior achievement and someone who is presenting an objective view point.

 

Again I will say that you have obviously achieved significant advancement benefitting from a wonderful teacher and many incredible hours of practice, training, and cultivation. Like myself, many in this forum have and will benefit from your experiences and understanding.

 

The inevitable "however" in my post is that your enveloping self-importance is not only distorting the effective transmission of your understanding but it may also be inhibiting your advancement.

 

An analogy is a well-frog who discovers the nearby creek and he loudly croaks and sings about how clever he is in his achievement not realising that just around the creek bend there is a large lake full of frogs.

 

What I am saying my friend is that your attachment to making such a 'big thing' of your achievement and promoting its importance may currently be your biggest obstacle to your growth.

 

Also, because of the excessive extension of your personality in this forum, many people including myself are simply turning off from your posts as I have no need to expose myself to your unrefined exertions in order to excavate the gems that some of your posts do actually contain. And I believe it is this principally that has attracted you so much criticism in this forum.

 

Personally, I want to hear about the success of your experiences and understanding on such matters that I find very interesting.

Edited March 6, 2008 by Stigweard

[Buddy]

Oh, so sorry. I didn't mean phony as an insult, merely a descriptive term. I'm amused by your claims. You claim some experience and then slag a tried and true method that is practiced by millions of people. As far as I can tell you two are the only ones with the audacity to make such claims. You have the firm commitment of the True Faith that you've found the best and truest way to...unity with Dao? I just find you both very providential. I think you are very consumed and convinced by your alleged experiences.

 

What does it say in the DDJ? "Those who know..."

[三江源]

.

Edited March 23, 2015 by 三江源

[Buddy]

Are you using the collective or royal we?

[Pero]

I like Buddy. So now what?

[Stigweard]

Just thoughts here, not directed AT anyone(s) at all :

would we make an intervention to a poster who made us yawn with their tedium and rambling, and suggest that their lack of concision, clarity, and humour was probably holding them back, as the spiders web of their head was far too dusty for light to get in?

Would we intervene to tell a poster that their posts seemed so ponderous that we apologetically feel the need to say they appear to have disapeared up their own arse?

 

Would we humbly suggest that the general lack of spark and wit that a poster failed to display raised serious doubts in our minds that they had any chance whatever of attracting the love and benificence of the cosmos?

 

The 'we' meaning 'you' obviously has.

[Taomeow]

I like Buddy. So now what?

As if you don't know. Now you're his concubine!

[Taomeow]

I dont understand the pleasure of engaging with Buddy. What is the point? Is it an optimism that believes there will be some shift in him eventually?

 

The only pleasure I could discern is getting the benefit of your elegant analysis. But, in my case, I'm not really guilty of engaging him, I simply don't know how to convince him to disengage. He keeps following me like a bad penny. That's the problem with borderline personalities -- once they engage themselves bullying someone, they are relentless. Do you get The Simpsons in the UK? There was an episode where Lisa invented a bully repellent spray. She figured out, correctly, that what sets off a bully is a chemical reaction -- they are engaged and enraged by pheromones generated by someone's mind activity, to which they are violently allergic. So that's why talking to them not only fails to convince them of anything, but invariably agitates them further -- the better your argument, the more mind activity pheromones you produce, the more it enrages the bully! I just wish I had Lisa's repellent spray in an online form.

[xenolith]

Buddy is a fool. Leave him alone. To Karma.

[Stigweard]

Buddy is a fool. Leave him alone. To Karma.

 

Actually I have significant respect for both SJ and Buddy, and neither of them are fools. A little over-done in a few areas perhaps but fools they not