Mystical Christian Thread

[whitesilk]

5 minutes ago, Fa Xin said:

Your saying that my interpretation is wrong ? or the translation is wrong

 

Neither, just a cute saying reflecting upon current American Republican policy toward Mexico.

[Fa Xin]

3 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

 

Going simply based off of the translated language, part of this could imply there was an old man, which is cast aside and which he no longer is. The new man may not have been either of the two (because it's created new). It's also solely "in himself", so it's not referring to the "one flesh" concept of uniting male and female...at least externally speaking. I'm not sure of the Bible ever teaching about the two genders being internal within one person.

I'm truly interested to see if anyone has other verses that speak of something related to this notion of "the two".

 

Theres this one, from the Gospel of Thomas:

 

11. Jesus said, "This heaven will pass away, and the one above it will pass away. 

 

The dead are not alive, and the living will not die. During the days when you ate what is dead, you made it come alive. When you are in the light, what will you do? On the day when you were one, you became two. But when you become two, what will you do?"

[Fa Xin]

22. Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the (Father's) kingdom." 

They said to him, "Then shall we enter the (Father's) kingdom as babies?" 

 

Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."

[Bindi]

16 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

 

Going simply based off of the translated language, part of this could imply there was an old man, which is cast aside and which he no longer is. The new man may not have been either of the two (because it's created new). It's also solely "in himself", so it's not referring to the "one flesh" concept of uniting male and female...at least externally speaking. I'm not sure of the Bible ever teaching about the two genders being internal within one person.

I'm truly interested to see if anyone has other verses that speak of something related to this notion of "the two".

 

My decidedly non-mystical understanding is that the 'two' are Jew and Gentile, and the 'One' is the Christian church, which Paul often refers to as one body. Maybe the chapter heading, "Jew and Gentile Reconciled Through Christ," affected my interpretation though. 

[whitesilk]

2 hours ago, Aetherous said:

I've heard that the Isaiah verse is related to Ezekiel 28:1-19. Not sure if they're about the same king, but both have to do with an excessive hubris (thinking one is more than just a mortal, or trying to be greater than the Most High) and loss of conscience...and they seem to use Satan as a metaphor for the king; or the king was identified as Satan/the fallen one.

 

I have a study bible, and I'll start with the footnote for Isiah 14:12-14,

 

"There are sever interpretations for the fallen one in these verses (1) He is Satan, because the person here is too powerful to be any human king. Although Satan my fit verses 12 - 14, he does not fit well with the rest of the chapter. (2) This could be Sennacherib or Nebuchadnezzar, kings with supreme power. Their people looked upon them as gods. These kings wanted to rule the world. (3) This could refer to both Satan and a great human king, possibly Nebuchadnezzar, because Babylon is pictured as the seat of evil in Revelation 17, 18. Pride was Satan's sin as well as willfully opposes God and will result in judgment. Israel made the mistake of being too proud to depend on God, and we are vulnerable to that same mistake."

 

EZEKIEL 26:7 NIV

 

"For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: From the north I am going to bring against Tyre Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, king of kings, with horses and chariots, with horse man and a great army."

[whitesilk]

Food for thought:

 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055047/

 

 

[Fa Xin]

"If the woman had not separated from the man, she should not die with the man. His separation became the beginning of death. Because of this, Christ came to repair the separation, which was from the beginning, and again unite the two, and to give life to those who died as a result of the separation, and unite them. But the woman is united to her husband in the bridal chamber. Indeed, those who have united in the bridal chamber will no longer be separated. Thus Eve separated from Adam because it was not in the bridal chamber that she united with him." -Gospel of Philip

[Patrick Brown]

4 minutes ago, Fa Xin said:

"If the woman had not separated from the man, she should not die with the man. His separation became the beginning of death. Because of this, Christ came to repair the separation, which was from the beginning, and again unite the two, and to give life to those who died as a result of the separation, and unite them. But the woman is united to her husband in the bridal chamber. Indeed, those who have united in the bridal chamber will no longer be separated. Thus Eve separated from Adam because it was not in the bridal chamber that she united with him." -Gospel of Philip

 

Be good to get some web links to these text as they are pretty astounding in what they say.

 

Yes the race of Adam and the race of Eve. Adam was the androgynous hermaphrodite race and Eve was the differentiation into male and female. I could give a few ideas of how this came about but it's better to figure it out yourself. It's always been about vanity and greed, oh and desire!  

 

Another thing that people should bear in mind is that just because you're born male or female doesn't mean that you are not still whole/one/of-the-root. The key here is genetics and the mother/farther gateway for rebirth which is why the first are the last etc. 

 

Quote

Revelation 22:15

American King James Version:

"For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and fornicators, and murderers, and idolaters, and whoever loves and makes a lie."

 

[Patrick Brown]

Quote

 

6Then God said,“Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness, to rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air,over the livestock, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it.” 

 

Quote

27So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

 

[Fa Xin]

12 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said:

 

Be good to get some web links to these text as they are pretty astounding in what they say.

 

Im glad your enjoying it! Many of them can be found on this website, is the one I use to pull quotes for Gosp of Philip and Thomas. 

 

http://gnosis.org/naghamm/gop.html

[Fa Xin]

39 minutes ago, Fa Xin said:

"If the woman had not separated from the man, she should not die with the man. His separation became the beginning of death. Because of this, Christ came to repair the separation, which was from the beginning, and again unite the two, and to give life to those who died as a result of the separation, and unite them. But the woman is united to her husband in the bridal chamber. Indeed, those who have united in the bridal chamber will no longer be separated. Thus Eve separated from Adam because it was not in the bridal chamber that she united with him." -Gospel of Philip

 

I consider the separation to be from God, and the bridal chamber to be our heart or inner world, where you are joined with the Divine presence. To be separated is “to die”, and to be in the bridal chamber is to be one with the Divine and to live. 

[Patrick Brown]

3 minutes ago, Fa Xin said:

 

I consider the separation to be from God, and the bridal chamber to be our heart or inner world, where you are joined with the Divine presence. To be separated is “to die”, and to be in the bridal chamber is to be one with the Divine and to live. 

 

Yep I see and agree with that. Bit like being in love with everyone and everything although not easy at this time because of the naughty children!! 

 

I have often said "don't love anyone love everyone". 

[Zen Pig]

On 2/8/2019 at 8:44 AM, Patrick Brown said:

In fact I don't think the testing and questioning should ever stop which doesn't infer doubt as such testing might simply lead to even greater insight.

Indeed.

[Fa Xin]

15 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said:

 

Yep I see and agree with that. Bit like being in love with everyone and everything although not easy at this time because of the naughty children!! 

 

I have often said "don't love anyone love everyone". 

 

Yes it’s hard at times. You put it very eloquently. Thank you 😊

 

“love your neighbor as yourself” has a deep meaning too 😊

[Fa Xin]

"[For this reason] he said, “I have come to make [the lower] like the [upper and the] outer like the [inner, and to unite] them in that place.” [He spoke] here in symbols [and images].

 

Those who say [there is a heavenly person and] one that is higher are wrong, for they call the visible heavenly person [68] “lower” and the one to whom the hidden realm belongs “higher.” It would be better for them to speak of the inner, the outer, and the outermost. For the master called corruption “the outermost darkness,” and there is nothing outside it. He said, “My father who is in secret.” He said, “Go into your room, shut the door behind you, and pray to your father who is in secret”—that is, the one who is innermost. What is innermost is the fullness, and there is nothing further within. And this is what they call uppermost." -Gospel of Philip

[Patrick Brown]

My heads not on straight today so I might need a few pointers on this one. 

 

Yes call me thicky thick thick! 

 

Actually I do think I get most of it but I'm doing three at once, again. Just need to read this when I'm chilled. 

[Fa Xin]

32 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said:

My heads not on straight today so I might need a few pointers on this one. 

 

Yes call me thicky thick thick! 

 

Actually I do think I get most of it but I'm doing three at once, again. Just need to read this when I'm chilled. 

 

Haha yes the wording is a bit jumbled at the beginning.  For me, it's pointing to the Father's kingdom being within, not "above". Instead of saying "As above, so below"... it may be more accurate to say "as within, so without"

 

A very interesting line in the verse for me is "Go to your room, shut the door behind you and pray to your Father who is in secret"  

 

It's also found in Matthew 6:5

5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

 

In this version, the "mystical" interpretation is not spelled out as it is in Philip.  In the Matthew verse, one could just think they mean - don't be praying for the image of it...so others can see you.  Which is a valid interpretation, too, of course.  Philip just goes a bit more esoteric with it.

 

Edited February 11, 2019 by Fa Xin

[Patrick Brown]

7 minutes ago, Fa Xin said:

 

Haha yes the wording is a bit jumbled at the beginning.  For me, it's pointing to the Father's kingdom being within, not "above". Instead of saying "As above, so below"... it may be more accurate to say "as within, so without"

 

Yep I was going to say the 'inner life' which is a term often used for the spiritual path/way. 

 

The symbolism of the sky and birds/wings aren't lost. The anatomy of birds is always a good hint! 

[Fa Xin]

6 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said:

The symbolism of the sky and birds/wings aren't lost. The anatomy of birds is always a good hint! 

 

I like this.  I was at a Museum a few weeks ago and I was really taken with the Bird section.  I spent a lot of time looking at them, and I wasn't sure why I was drawn there.  Upon leaving, I mentioned to my girlfriend I should take up bird watching.  Her response suggested she was "dating an old man"  Maybe theres a reason for my interest, after all ! 

[Fa Xin]

"Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. 2. Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ." Galatians 6:1

 

This line is all about "Holding space" for someone.  In order to support a brother or sister, and "bear another's burdens", one must not get attached to their problem - or their solution, lest we get pulled in and caught up in it all (tempted).

 

"Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ" -- what a powerful line.

[Fa Xin]

Gospel of Thomas 7. Jesus said, "Lucky is the lion that the human will eat, so that the lion becomes human. And foul is the human that the lion will eat, and the lion still will become human."

[Patrick Brown]

1 hour ago, Fa Xin said:

Gospel of Thomas 7. Jesus said, "Lucky is the lion that the human will eat, so that the lion becomes human. And foul is the human that the lion will eat, and the lion still will become human."

 

Don't get this one at all. How do others interpret this? 

Edited February 18, 2019 by Patrick Brown

[Taoist Texts]

7 minutes ago, Patrick Brown said:

 

Don't get this one at all. How do others interpret this one? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson's_riddle

[Patrick Brown]

25 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson's_riddle

Ta! Will read when I get a mo.

 

OK makes more sense now what with all that lion honey!! LOL

Edited February 18, 2019 by Patrick Brown

[Fa Xin]

5 hours ago, Patrick Brown said:

 

Don't get this one at all. How do others interpret this? 

 

For me, the lion represents the more bestial side of people. Like the side that wants to screw, steal and satiate their worldly desires.  If the human eats the lion, he/she has overcome the bestial side of themselves and becomes whole (human).

 

There’s a verse from Peter that lines up well with it. 

 

“Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that your brothers throughout the world are undergoing the same kind of sufferings” 1 Peter 5:8

Edited February 18, 2019 by Fa Xin