TCM - vegetarianism

[Miroku]

Hey,

what is the stance of TCM practitioners and qigong people on vegetarianism and veganism? Western science seems to say that meat is not really that much needed, so I am quite interested to see what TCM thinks, hat are the effects on the body and if it is stable for long term living.

I am especially hoping for @Desmonddf's and @Wu Ming Jen's replies as I often find myself enjoying your posts. But please everybody feel free to pitch in.

[Wu Ming Jen]

OK I will bite no pun intended. We all go through cycles and seasons of our lives so there is no absolute.

 

On the mountain meat is served 3 days a week lots of little kids working hard that benefit from eating meat and meat is a luxury very special. Older folks mostly vegetarian and if you live at a temple not a school only vegetarian food is served. so there is no real political or moral standard of a chosen diet.  

 

I had a funny experience a student talking about the food and said I am vegetarian and the coach replied  that is great and then another student said I eat meat and the coach replied that is great.

 

It is all about balance with your body needs and it changes all the time. so that is my vague reply for now. The key is what is paired with your meals be it vegetarian or omnivore diets.

[Desmonddf]

Meat is a great tonic for the liver, yin, qi and blood. Not so good for the heart and spleen, but everything can be solved with the right seasonings. All vegetarian people I've treated so far have had a quite disctinve blood and Xue deficiency. The pulse was weak and thin. They usually suffered from exaustion, weakness and pain all over the body. 

 

That said, they obviously didn't know how to properly keep a vegetarian/vegan diet. Their eating habits were awful. Not a single one had even heard of sun mushrooms and most had clinicaly proven B12 deficiency. So, I still have to find someone who can do a proper vegan diet and look at them closely enough. 

 

What I do know, however, is that a overly "meaty" diet will bring you problems. Even though each kind of meat belongs to a certain Movement, all meats can be collectively understood as being from tge Water movement. 

 

That is to say, they are great for your Kidneys and Liver, but everything in excess is poison. You should eat more the more you need to build your blood (literal blood, not the "spiritual" Xue) and Yin. However, any amount that makes you feel heavy and dampt has been WAY above the recomended amounts. 

 

Physical exercise is a must some time before eating meat, as you need the Earth to control the Water. However, it shouldn't be enough to make you tired - you don't want to exaust your Qi with meat on the stomach. 

 

Exercise after the meals must be done only after you feel your stomach light. And I don't mean hungry. Just light. 

 

Sweet and bitter flavours are good spices to help digestion and absorption of meat. Don't eat much meat (limit yourself to chiken and small amounts) if you have heart diseases, especially Heart Yin deficiency. You'll need to eat a bit to keep your blood healthy, but just a bit. 

Edited February 9, 2019 by Desmonddf

[Miroku]

@Desmonddf Is there some other food except for meat that is a good tonic for liver, yin, qi and blood?

Its a shame you seem to have only "bad" experience with vegan patients. As far as I know the diet is actually pretty sustainable longterm (at least from the western perspective) and its easy too. 

[Desmonddf]

10 hours ago, Miroku said:

@Desmonddf Is there some other food except for meat that is a good tonic for liver, yin, qi and blood?

Its a shame you seem to have only "bad" experience with vegan patients. As far as I know the diet is actually pretty sustainable longterm (at least from the western perspective) and its easy too. 

 

I wouldn't say a single thing (even "meat" includes a lot of items to talk about), but surely it can be arranged. The diet would be quite restrictive, but it is indeed possible to have an adequate MTC diet without depending on meat. 

[Aetherous]

If Chinese herbs can nourish the blood (and they can, more so than pretty much anything), then perhaps for vegans and vegetarians it's simply a matter of continually taking those herbs in the right way...in addition to all of the supplements they need to make up for their dietary deficiencies.

There are also carnivores with blood deficiency, by the way. There's just a correlation with not eating meat and having blood deficiency, but that doesn't mean eating meat will necessarily fix blood deficiency.

I spoke with one practitioner who said that he encountered a vegan patient whose liver blood was surprisingly healthy. They took Whole Foods Garden of Life raw meal replacement at each meal, in addition to whatever they ate...so maybe that product is useful for this; I haven't experimented to see if it's true and am just kind of taking his word for it.

Liver blood is really something that promotes a long life. People can be vegan and healthy (veganism has been shown to reverse heart disease, for instance...and it usually shrinks the waistline), but they won't live as long because of their blood deficiency. Deficient blood could also cause infertility, which is something that healthy young people need to keep in mind.

[Miroku]

10 hours ago, Aetherous said:

Liver blood is really something that promotes a long life. People can be vegan and healthy (veganism has been shown to reverse heart disease, for instance...and it usually shrinks the waistline), but they won't live as long because of their blood deficiency. Deficient blood could also cause infertility, which is something that healthy young people need to keep in mind.

Thanks for the reply Aetherous! Is there some herb (mixture) that can be taken from time to time by relatively healthy individual? My friend ex-tcm practitioner recommended some mixture that could help with yin and could be taken by people to strengthen them, but I forgot the name.

Also qigong could theoretically help balance these right?

[Pavel Karavaev]

On 09.02.2019 at 12:13 AM, Wu Ming Jen said:

 

It is all about balance with your body needs and it changes all the time. so that is my vague reply for now. The key is what is paired with your meals be it vegetarian or omnivore diets.

I think so too. Рeople are different and different food suits them. It is better to listen and understand yourself bodies, and not be guided only by theories and ideas about how to eat right.