I am officially jaw dropped amazed.

[Zen Pig]

1 hour ago, Fa Xin said:

I imagine the prepatory stuff is like watching the breath or being present.

The only kinds of "deeper meditation" I have seen, and played with just a bit was Tumo, simple Neigung, reverse breathing,  what some call Buddha breathing, and breath of fire, and so on. I still do most of these kinds of meditation, but am not focused on any outcome, and always start with over an hour of simple sitting  

 

From my limited experience I have seen a couple of things.

 

First of all, in most mystical/spiritual traditions,  the very first lesson, even the very simple ones , hold all the "secrets" of the path. 

 

Second,  and this relates to "dangerous" practices,  that could harm people,  this is mostly because we are seeking power or control rather than seeing our complete inseparable connection to everything.  (or as the old saying goes, "be careful for what you pray for),  from what I have seen this wanting power or control or the changing of our lives, comes from deep seated fear,  which can lead to all kinds of shitty outcomes. And yes, a good teacher should be able to see someone's intent in getting into this kind of practice. 

 

 

2 minutes ago, freeform said:

The spiritual practices can can be quite dangerous. There are many accidental deaths, suicides and psychotic breakdowns in this arena.

 

Thats why I tend to dissuade people in shooting for these levels of practice. The ones who’re really dedicated and ready for them will usually get to them despite this

Saw this all the time in martial arts and this is one of the reasons a good school will work with a new student for years in order to see the kind of person he/she is,  and also see how there ability develops before they teach the real hard core stuff. 

Years ago,  I made the mistake of telling a couple of young men that there was a spot that one can strike and make them piss and shit themselves at the same time. They bugged me for years to show them this spot, but I knew that they were way too young and immature to be given this technique.  I even told them that this was a very dangerous technique because you are striking a chakra spot, and it could cause all kinds of damage.  

The same can be said about some of the meditation techniques.  

[mrpasserby]

16 minutes ago, Zen Pig said:

Saw this all the time in martial arts and this is one of the reasons a good school will work with a new student for years in order to see the kind of person he/she is,  and also see how there ability develops before they teach the real hard core stuff.

In my experience: this is also same with psychopomp training.  You have to prove your sincerity by being all in all of the time. 

[freeform]

2 hours ago, Zen Pig said:

there was a spot that one can strike and make them piss and shit themselves at the same time.

 

2 hours ago, Zen Pig said:

The same can be said about some of the meditation techniques.  

 

 

Well it is true that once the Dantien gets going it often results in horrific shits!

 

2 hours ago, Zen Pig said:

First of all, in most mystical/spiritual traditions,  the very first lesson, even the very simple ones , hold all the "secrets" of the path.

 

That’s certainly true. The foundation often seems the least fancy and ‘esoteric’ but is almost always where you need to spend the majority of your time.

 

(although many teachers hide some small detail that makes these things actually work... but that’s another conversation.)

 

2 hours ago, Zen Pig said:

Second,  and this relates to "dangerous" practices,  that could harm people,  this is mostly because we are seeking power or control rather than seeing our complete inseparable connection to everything

 

Yes you’re right.

 

However - I’m talking about actual spiritual practice, that creates fundamental changes to your consciousness - not development of power or control.

 

Specifically the practices that lead beyond ‘awakening’ or ‘realisation’ - the stage of ‘Zhen Ren’ (which can actually happen spontaneously to people who don’t even train and is experienced as this non-dual connection to everything). A great attainment in its own right.

 

But the practices im talking about are the ones that lead to enlightenment and beyond. At a certain stage you’re literally “hacking” the fundamental building blocks of reality - literally like messing with atom bombs, but on the human scale.

 

For example the majority of people who die suddenly from higher level internal alchemy practice actually die of ‘internal electrocution’ - usually as a mishap when working on fusing Yin and Yang Qi.

[Zen Pig]

25 minutes ago, freeform said:

 

But the practices im talking about are the ones that lead to enlightenment and beyond. At a certain stage you’re literally “hacking” the fundamental building blocks of reality - literally like messing with atom bombs, but on the human scale.

Hmmmmmm. sounds interesting,  but if offered to me,  I would say,  "No Thanks".

It's not that I don't find this sort of thing intriguing,  But like the old saying goes, "Man's got to know his limitations"  And I do not do well with to much power.  Like life of  just hiking in the hills and spending time with family.   

[freeform]

9 hours ago, Zen Pig said:

Hmmmmmm. sounds interesting,  but if offered to me,  I would say,  "No Thanks".

 

Exactly! You’re wise enough to know your limitations.

 

I certainly have doubts whether I'm capable of following this path myself - and I’ve dedicated a major part of my life to it.

 

Many aren’t so cautious and they get into trouble or just mess up their perfectly good lives - I’ve seen countless such cases.

 

Thats why it’s best to discourage people heading up the path to ‘Mt Everest’... take a nice scenic hike instead

 

PS - you mentioned spending time with family. But once you get the ball rolling on these sorts of practices, you will periodically need to enter into long term retreat (measured in years not weeks).

 

And it’s a must because otherwise you’ll be a danger to yourself and others around you.

Edited February 12, 2019 by freeform

[Fa Xin]

4 hours ago, freeform said:

otherwise you’ll be a danger to yourself and others around you.

 

Yikes 😊