Ba Duan Jin Energetics Visualization

[escott]

I've seen many demonstrations of the movements but I have to find an explanation of how the chi is supposed to flow. So, what I've been doing is to visualize that I am stretching a chi ball between my hands something like stretchy, elastic taffy. Is this right? Should any visualization even be done?Any suggestions? 

[Zen Pig]

1 hour ago, escott said:

I am stretching a chi ball between my hands something like stretchy, elastic taffy. Is this right? Should any visualization even be done?Any suggestions? 

I have heard of this technique before, but having done tai chi for over 10 years, (modified yang form, full yang form, chen form,) etc.  it is about physical connection, of aligning and relaxing your body structure, dropping your center, and letting you body move as one unit, starting from the soles of the feet, up the legs to the lower spine, and transferred through the waist, into the shoulders, (the most difficult transition) and into the hands,/finger tips.  it sounds simple, but we are conditioned to move like a robot, one segment at a time.  so transferring energy is both very physical, and also comes from a kind of connecting our body in a mindful way through practice.

Of course, there are more esoteric forms of energy transfer, but i would not worry about that, as just learning to connect the body, energy in a physical manner takes decades of daily work.  My suggestion for anyone taking any kind of Martial art, is to not get in a hurry.  the best , deepest lessons are in the basic forms.  relax, take your time and focus, and above all Have Fun! .  good luck.

[Aetherous]

2 hours ago, escott said:

Should any visualization even be done?

 

No, I don't think that's part of it. It's a physical practice; best to just move the body as instructed.

[Fa Xin]

I agree with everyone on this. Just relax into the movements and enjoy it. 

[escott]

So it's just basically calisthenics? I suppose that's why it's still an approved form of the Chinese government. Are most forms just movement? What's the difference between forms that encourage visualization, like Spring Forest Qigong, and those that do not, like Fragrant Qigong?

[windwalker]

18 hours ago, escott said:

I've seen many demonstrations of the movements but I have to find an explanation of how the chi is supposed to flow. So, what I've been doing is to visualize that I am stretching a chi ball between my hands something like stretchy, elastic taffy. Is this right? Should any visualization even be done?Any suggestions? 

 

If you're visualizing something you're actually not feeling what's really going on.

 

your inner awareness is being turned to an imaginary feeling that one has not yet felt.

 

oddly enough this imaginary feeling will tend to override any real feelings that develops from the practice.  Often causing one to ignore them, not matching what they imagined them to be.

 

  Not good.

 

The better choice would be to do the exercises with a quiet mind, stillness, allowing feelings, perceptions to come and go as they will.

 

In time exercise will produce results that one will not have to imagine.

Edited February 11, 2019 by windwalker

[escott]

@windwalker When I bring my hands in front between movements (like I'm holding a ball in front of my chest) my hands have started shaking on about the 2nd or 3rd movement. It seems like it alternates, too. For instance, the hand that was extended on Drawing The Bow will be the one that shakes. What could that be?

[windwalker]

12 minutes ago, escott said:

For instance, the hand that was extended on Drawing The Bow will be the one that shakes. What could that be?

 

It depends on how and what one is doing.

For some it could be a sign that the qi is making its way through blockages, shaking arises as things are getting rebalanced.  

For others it could be a sign of muscle fatigue to much or incorrect tension is being used.

 

I would think if one has a teacher it would be best to let them advise as to whats going on.

Otherwise,  wouldn't focus on it and just observe, do not try to recreate it or encourage it.

Do not attach any special meaning to it...continue to practice in time it will fade away 

what ever the cause being resolved by itself.

 

The cation would be if it seems to be getting worse and is affecting the body in a way that is not good.

Then the practice or any practice that does the same should be stopped until the cause is determined.

 

Qi, qi gong practices,  are nothing to play with .  Even the ones deemed natural and unforced can have unintended affects if not done with some awareness of what one is doing. 

 

Always best to have a guide, some one who had done it and can show some affects of real practice. 

Many are into the theory not so much so the practice.

 

 

[rideforever]

Before you start shake your body out vigorously (shaking horse) for several minutes.

Then warm up your arms and hands by rubbing them together gently, palms, then palms and wrists, then same on the back of the hands, and then do the entire arm, up on the inside, and down on the outside from hand to shoulder.  Doing this will sensitize the hands are arms for practice.

[escott]

38 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

It depends on how and what one is doing.

For some it could be a sign that the qi is making its way through blockages, shaking arises as things are getting rebalanced.  

For others it could be a sign of muscle fatigue to much or incorrect tension is being used. 

 

I'm hoping it's the former and not the latter. That's exactly what I was hoping to get from Qigong. I lift weights so I wouldn't expect to be fatigued so quickly. I'm planning on seeing a teacher tonight.

 

https://standingcrane.com/

 

[escott]

20 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Before you start shake your body out vigorously (shaking horse) for several minutes.

 

I was watching my son bounce on an exercise trampoline yesterday and it made me wonder if it does the same thing?

[windwalker]

6 minutes ago, escott said:

I lift weights so I wouldn't expect to be fatigued so quickly. I'm planning on seeing a teacher tonight.

 

 

Ah,, an important point.

 

consider the muscles used in lifting vs stabilizing

understand the nature and function of each.

understand how they are used interchangeable in the body. 

 

lifting and holding static positions its not the same.

 

 

Edited February 11, 2019 by windwalker

[escott]

1 hour ago, windwalker said:

 

 

Ah,, an important point.

 

consider the muscles used in lifting vs stabilizing

understand the nature and function of each.

understand how they are used interchangeable in the body. 

 

lifting and holding static positions its not the same.

 

 

I was really surprised by the shaking doing Ba Duan Jin because I have worked my way up to 20 minutes of Standing at the Stake and all along the way I never experienced any of the side effects that are mentioned in The Way of Energy. The only unpleasant thing I've experienced from Zhan Zhuang is tightness on the outside of the legs and some knee and ankle pain. So I'm stretching and foam rolling to work that out. If worse comes to worst I'll go to my chiropractor and get some IASTM.

 

I'll have to watch the video later, but I'm guessing it talks about mobilizers vs. stabilizers. I read a blog post somewhere about that to help me with Zhan Zhuang.