ben kaf Posted February 15, 2019 On 2/13/2019 at 2:19 AM, Desmonddf said: As long as you have common sense, help and is willing to become friends with guide spirits I believe such entities exist but I guess the very nature of such connection is very vague sometimes and your own mind get in the way so it is not really the best way to just base your whole system on that. At least I know it doesn't wokr for me. becaue I am very logical (skeptic?) by nature and I just can't trust whatever come to my mind.. But that's good to know this works for you Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ben kaf Posted February 15, 2019 On 2/13/2019 at 5:30 AM, steve said: I have a valuable feedback system in my practice. If I am doing my practices correctly, I should see tangible effects in my life. Less impatience and frustration, deeper connections and openness in my relationships, less resistance to things I don't like, and less attraction to things I do like. If I don't see clear changes in my day to day, I am not practicing effectively. That make sense and I guess I kinda have this. maybe over this, I'm searching for something more tangible like sensation or something else to guide me on some more sophisticated aspects of my practice like that building or waking up the dan tian (which actually I'm not working on right now and I know it's too soon for me. I just used it as an example. I read somewhere that masters can say to a student if he had filled his dan tian correctly or not.so I thought is it possible for someone to find out by himself) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ben kaf Posted February 15, 2019 On 2/13/2019 at 5:58 AM, Trunk said: Paint what you *feel* in your body. I actually like your idea but I have some questions about it. You know I am psychologist and Jungian psychoanalyst. and I don't want to analyze my unconscious. Do you think you can feel you energies and subtle body energies with this method? and what is the relationship between these and mind/unconscious? I'll also read your weblogs tomorrow. thanks a lot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ben kaf Posted February 15, 2019 On 2/13/2019 at 10:53 AM, thelerner said: I find warmth in my dantien to be a good feedback. Strangely earlier in my practice I seemed to get more warmth. Yet when I'm consistent, I do feel more of an inner flame going on. Also when I rub my palms together I get heat, quite hot, when I'm on the ball, and steady.. great hints. they remind me of what Damo Mitchell says in his last book. Quote When I'm good, my startle reflex to loud sharp noise or sudden animal surprises is muted ie I don't flinch. Similarly my gag reflex gets less, when I'm well practiced.. ie keeping it consistent so your reflex to sharp noise and other signs appear when you are practicing or you feel them generally in your everyday life? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ben kaf Posted February 15, 2019 8 hours ago, freeform said: I think that if the OP can’t even follow up on his own post and discuss the feedback people have already given, he’s not likely to get far. Whether with a teacher or not. nah! I'm not going to say don't judge blah blah! it's free hug day p.s. I'm traveling and I can't have internet everyday but I read all the comments and I REALLY appreciate each and everyone of them Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted February 15, 2019 8 minutes ago, ben kaf said: great hints. they remind me of what Damo Mitchell says in his last book. so your reflex to sharp noise and other signs appear when you are practicing or you feel them generally in your everyday life? My startle reflex goes down, at least for things I don't need it with, ie a dog barks loudly behind me, or something falls, or a something flies near me, I don't flinch or gasp. I record it and move on. I'm reminded of years ago, when my oldest was a toddler. He'd take my meditation as a challenge. He'd run into me, swat at me, finally hold my nose closed(?!), if I stayed still throughout, he'd give up and wind up sitting peacefully in my lap. Thus I'd tame the wild Zachabeast. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ben kaf Posted February 15, 2019 20 hours ago, Fa Xin said: I generally just go by how calm and present I feel. How quiet my mind is. And the general progression is forward, even though sometimes it appears it moves backwards - it never really does. There’s always contraction before expansion. I remember first time I did a 10-day vipassana course I felt like really bad and I was not sure if it did good to me or not. But I kept practicing and after 3-4 months it started working but I really trusted Goenkaji and that system and I knew it's gonna work so I kept pushing. But with so many different systems and philosophies of chinese martial art, chi gong, bagua... it's hard to be sure 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeform Posted February 15, 2019 10 minutes ago, ben kaf said: I'm traveling and I can't have internet everyday but I read all the comments and I REALLY appreciate each and everyone of them Fair enough The issue with feedback is that there are very specific feedback systems in classical lineages, but they’re often only known by the teacher. My teachers constantly come poke me in different points of my body... they make us train in weird environments... ask us cryptic questions etc. These are all designed to elicit feedback on how we’re going through the process. Regarding internal feedback during training, yes there are certain ‘sensations’ or specific physiological changes that take place at certain points through the process. However this only happens if you’re following a specific path - if you’re doing stuff that you think is right, you’re not following a path - you’re just walking around by your own intuition - which is hit and (mostly) miss. Hence the advice you’re getting - find a teacher and train with them. If it’s not possible for you, then it’s not possible - such is life. If you can’t get to a medical school then you won’t become a doctor. If you can’t get to a teacher of the internal arts, then you won’t progress meaningfully in the internal arts. Saying all this, one clue is ‘discomfort’ - I’ve noticed that discomfort is a good indicator that you’re doing something right (the people who disagree tend to be ones who can’t demonstrate any meaningful progress). In terms of advice for you, for right now, have a look for Damo’s fundamentals video training - it’s authentic. I know teachers and senior students all around the world. So if you actually want to train with someone competent, then feel free to get in touch and tell me where you live. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fa Xin Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) A big issue is when the teacher tells the student what to expect - it becomes a stumbling block concept that will distract from the practice. And if the student hits this “mile marker” it may not even be genuine - could be psychosomatic or imagined. Like the information may taint the experience. Edited February 15, 2019 by Fa Xin 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trunk Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) Quote Do you think you can feel you energies and subtle body energies with this method? Yes. The process of painting the unseen-yet-partially-felt interior clarifies, excavates, expands what I already partially felt. And gives an external reference that is helpful in the moment and also for later reference, and for noticing changes, stages of progression, that one goes through with a practice. Like, for the same practice, different paintings of a. here's what I felt in early January b. here's several weeks later c. here's several months later I look back in the sketchbook and see, quickly easily vividly, what the practice is doing in my body, how the progression is working. Often surprisingly so. Where as, without doing that, it's all invisible and mostly lost to the cognitive process. I've found it very helpful. Helps me integrate. 3 hours ago, ben kaf said: You know I am psychologist and Jungian psychoanalyst. and I don't want to analyze my unconscious. ... and what is the relationship between these and mind/unconscious? I didn't know. Nice to meet you. I've read some of Jung's works ("Memories, Dreams & Reflections") and some related works ... but I still can't say that I clearly understand what Jung's model of the unconscious is. So, I'd have to say, "I don't know". Edited February 15, 2019 by Trunk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Desmonddf Posted February 16, 2019 12 hours ago, ben kaf said: I believe such entities exist but I guess the very nature of such connection is very vague sometimes and your own mind get in the way so it is not really the best way to just base your whole system on that. At least I know it doesn't wokr for me. becaue I am very logical (skeptic?) by nature and I just can't trust whatever come to my mind.. But that's good to know this works for you Kinda. Practice makes perfect. Learning how to quiet your mind and surrender your body is primordial in this kind of practice. As for it being vage, it depends on the spirit and/or medium. Some are very incisive, direct and correct. As with everything else, one needs practice and good guides Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
