Climate Change

[voidisyinyang]

54 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

Nice, takes a lot of work and understanding to do so.

 

what is called clean energy is not so clean

when one starts looking into the process used to make them.

 

Time for everyone to watch the BBC's doc on Global Dimming - something hardly anyone knows about since it has not been in the corporate-state mass mind control media.

 

so that means MORE renewables means MORE global warming. For example when airplanes stopped flying after 9/11 then temperatures went up 1 degree celsius in the US.

 

So renewables cut back on  sulfur aerosols - so increases warming

 

I'm not saying don't use renewables - I'm just saying they won't save us. We've already jacked SO MUCH CO2 emissions - that it's DOOMED - locked in.

When you include methane levels we're at over 600 ppm.

The warming will keep accelerating.

 

 

[voidisyinyang]

7 hours ago, Stosh said:

The San are living breathing men and women. They aren't some 'hominid ancestor' , what humans "used-to be like." leaving the 'white man' as the Ultimate incarnation that everybody else was leading up to, and the only things left of them is chi gong and yoga.

It's like you have to keep finding people's to feel better than- but in a politically correct manner that you can get away with.

Let it go dude!

 

 

 

So apparently you didn't click on the link to the interviews I have with LIVING BREATHING master spiritual healers from the San Bushmen?

 

I'll post each individual vid so that others who don't practice Self-Censorship might have a better go at it.

 

And by the way - San Bushmen - is itself a term that is debated.  It's not their real name. Khoisan is a linguistic term.

 

That's why I didn't just call them the San like you did. I stated "San Bushmen" for a reason.

 

Who said anything about white people as leading up to having chi gong and yoga left for them. haha.

The fact is that Western culture never had qigong or yoga - and we can't just "assimilate" it as this website seems to think.

Dr. Victor Grauer has a book called "Sounding the Depths" - he traces the San Bushmen culture as it spread around the world - through it's MUSIC - and this music can still be found (in some white cultures too!!).

 

[flowing hands]

3 hours ago, windwalker said:

 

Nice, takes a lot of work and understanding to do so.

 

what is called clean energy is not so clean

when one starts looking into the process used to make them.

You are nit picking, OK what do you fancy? There is always a trade off. Nor is the mining for various minerals used in smart phones, laptops etc. The production and dangerous nuclear generators of course produce plutonium used for making bombs. I really can't make any life changing bombs out of my solar panels, can you? The only clean energy production is probably an old wind mill or water mill. What would you prefer?  A years holiday in the centre of Chenobyl if you like, or producing solar panels? One has to look at it in a balanced way. If you prefer Chenobyl, then go there and see how long you last.

 

3 hours ago, rene said:

 

Flowing hands, you surprise me!

I applaud your efforts and intentions, we are also off-grid and harness the sun for all our energy needs which are nominal, but we do not pretend there was no environmental cost to do so. There are many kinds of pollution; not the least of which is delusion. Are you okay? Oh wait! Perhaps you are playing the Uke with this thread?

I'm not pretending, and delusion is not a pollutant, it is sometimes a dream/hope for a better life that people have when their lives are plighted. Do you remember Chenobyl or three mile Island? I am certainly not deluded, this is the last thing I would ever be. I am a very practical and skilled person who's feet are firmly placed on the ground. Currently, solar panels will last for up to 20-25 years. Not everyone has the chance to live in the countryside, so solar panels on house roofs offer a 20-25 year generating time that yes they have to be produced, but once up and running will save CO2 being produced else where and produce clean energy. Collectively, production may cause CO2,  and some destruction of the environment mining for silicon etc, but if enough are produced and used over an extended period, alot of CO2 can be saved from going into the atmosphere. There is no risk of Chenobyl! If you are deluded about Chenobyl and the terrible risks, do some reading. I know what I would prefer, we had nuclear fall out hit our country from another and many animals and crops had to be destroyed and certain areas could not be visited. 

 

[rene]

14 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

I'm not pretending, and delusion is not a pollutant, it is sometimes a dream/hope for a better life that people have when their lives are plighted. Do you remember Chenobyl or three mile Island? I am certainly not deluded, this is the last thing I would ever be. I am a very practical and skilled person who's feet are firmly placed on the ground. Currently, solar panels will last for up to 20-25 years. Not everyone has the chance to live in the countryside, so solar panels on house roofs offer a 20-25 year generating time that yes they have to be produced, but once up and running will save CO2 being produced else where and produce clean energy. Collectively, production may cause CO2,  and some destruction of the environment mining for silicon etc, but if enough are produced and used over an extended period, alot of CO2 can be saved from going into the atmosphere. There is no risk of Chenobyl! If you are deluded about Chenobyl and the terrible risks, do some reading. I know what I would prefer, we had nuclear fall out hit our country from another and many animals and crops had to be destroyed and certain areas could not be visited. 

 

Hi flowing hands (-:

I'm glad to read that you're aware of some of the environmental costs of 'going green'; for a minute you had me worried! LOL

The delusions I was referring to that are indeed polluting are the extremes of this debate - that all green is all good, and no green is all good - and the off-topic dueling charts and the off-topic takeover of your thread by ralis and drew (I have him on ignore but can easily guess) and the others sure polluted up your topic. 

One of the first, and maybe most important step, in travelling light - is to not live in excess, nor to bring or let in the garbage of extremes in the first place; whether material or verbal. I know you cant block or delete the off-topic posts but a request to dawei or other mods could have assisted with this and the replies to your thread and good conversation may have had a better chance...and may have reduced your need to appear to land on an extreme. 

[dawei]

23 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

Currently, solar panels will last for up to 20-25 years. Not everyone has the chance to live in the countryside, so solar panels on house roofs offer a 20-25 year generating time that yes they have to be produced, but once up and running will save CO2 being produced else where and produce clean energy. Collectively, production may cause CO2,  and some destruction of the environment mining for silicon etc, but if enough are produced and used over an extended period, alot of CO2 can be saved from going into the atmosphere. 

 

That seems a reasonable and logical idea except it would only work in say China where the central government would demand something and it would be implemented as ordered.

 

It seems the US is naively fascinated with alternative energy while never really embracing it in a national application... seems our market economy and profit driven corporations don't like to invest in things that don't have any ROI in a quick and yet long term pace.

 

I recall reading about Polar Bear hair as an enhancement to solar collection back in the 1980s...   Where are we since then with that?

 

I would actually be for such alternate energy sources; why don't builders just start installing solar panels and more energy efficient appliances instead of making them premium price markups to buyer ?   Oh yea... economy and corporation devils doing their duty... 

 

 

[Zorro Dantes]

I had a terrifying dream of north of america becoming a snow white wasteland. humanity found shelter in the mall of spokane... the next thing i know i'm in a orgy in the Barnes and Noble store store there and a  giant grizzly bear attacks us... a bunch of people get mauled to death, myself and a bunch of other gentlemen stab it to death with ski poles... following the massacre a bunch of people decide that there should be a walk  to Seattle  or Vancouver since it didn't freeze there completely  the last ice age..what freaked me out about this dream is i became  father  3 years ago.and in this dream i was one of the survivors of this crazy ass orgy and  i was just being a thirsty guy following the whole incident asking a bunch  of ladies who's dads and husbands died(during the ordeal) whether or not they wanted to cum one last time before the world ends and its REALLY F**** bothered me all day. any ideas!? this is some shit that has bugged me out for a minute here in the last 48 hrs what a f*** up nightmare!

Edited February 22, 2019 by Zorro Dantes

[windwalker]

16 minutes ago, dawei said:

I would actually be for such alternate energy sources; why don't builders just start installing solar panels and more energy efficient appliances instead of making them premium price markups to buyer ? 

 

Might be something called a market driven economy.

 

Think it though, at this point there is no storage system for electricity

the power developed is not constant nor is it efficient.

 

If one is connected to the grid and uses less power who pays for the maintenance

and other cost associated with maintaining the grid.

 

Look at water, in SF for example when the usage became more efficient and people used less

the cost of it in taxes was more then the cost of the water used itself.  

 

Energy efficient appliances,  they do make em

and you do have to pay for all the cost associated

for doing so...free markets are really the only way to bring cost down...

 

In the solar industry China made a decision a while back to be the one stop shop 

for all green energy solar, wind, ect....they did this in a way that only china could and can do...

 

In the process running the market for local producers of such technologies

Was in a company making cells that went out of business,   it cost more to make the cells

then they could be sold for....

 

      

Edited February 22, 2019 by windwalker

[Zorro Dantes]

THIS ENTIRE CONVERSATION IS SCARY AF..... what if communist weather magicians are  bumping heads(russia vs china, and we're all caught in the middle of this...

[Stosh]

9 hours ago, flowing hands said:

Over here Trump is not liked at all and I can't really think of anything good to say about him! All I know is someone like him should not be the president nor should he have the final call on launching nukes. China has been the dumping ground for a lot of the worlds waste, including nuclear. Poor countries just say to the west yes we'll have your dangerous waste and blow the consequences. So every time some spent nuclear rods come out of a power station in America or Europe many of them end up in third world countries. Every time you put on your light, some Pakistani families are suffering from your commodities and ease. We don't like Trump, any one with half a brain would not vote for such a man. 

Even if something in there is true, none of it starts with Trump, so you who are supposed to lead, jumped on a bandwagon. Tsk tsk 

[whitesilk]

11 hours ago, Zorro Dantes said:

I had a terrifying dream of north of america becoming a snow white wasteland. humanity found shelter in the mall of spokane... the next thing i know i'm in a orgy in the Barnes and Noble store store there and a  giant grizzly bear attacks us... a bunch of people get mauled to death, myself and a bunch of other gentlemen stab it to death with ski poles... following the massacre a bunch of people decide that there should be a walk  to Seattle  or Vancouver since it didn't freeze there completely  the last ice age..what freaked me out about this dream is i became  father  3 years ago.and in this dream i was one of the survivors of this crazy ass orgy and  i was just being a thirsty guy following the whole incident asking a bunch  of ladies who's dads and husbands died(during the ordeal) whether or not they wanted to cum one last time before the world ends and its REALLY F**** bothered me all day. any ideas!? this is some shit that has bugged me out for a minute here in the last 48 hrs what a f*** up nightmare!

 

Take a cosmic approach to time:

 

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/48615-calendar/?tab=comments#comment-871552

 

My 'idea' for you is that your lucid 'nightmare' is a failed I Ching transition. For some reason or another you were leading yourself into the path of destruction and your life is reflected in your 'nightmare.'

 

I recently had a lucid dream of the most joyful, and crazy, wedding ceremony that I could never have predicted. It even ended with ancient birds hanging in a cage on my me and my beloved's back porch. For some reason in my life, I want to experience this dream, I just am unable to realize it in my conscience reality.

 

[flowing hands]

16 hours ago, rene said:

Hi flowing hands (-:

I'm glad to read that you're aware of some of the environmental costs of 'going green'; for a minute you had me worried! LOL

The delusions I was referring to that are indeed polluting are the extremes of this debate - that all green is all good, and no green is all good - and the off-topic dueling charts and the off-topic takeover of your thread by ralis and drew (I have him on ignore but can easily guess) and the others sure polluted up your topic. 

One of the first, and maybe most important step, in travelling light - is to not live in excess, nor to bring or let in the garbage of extremes in the first place; whether material or verbal. I know you cant block or delete the off-topic posts but a request to dawei or other mods could have assisted with this and the replies to your thread and good conversation may have had a better chance...and may have reduced your need to appear to land on an extreme. 

Doing something is better than nothing. The reality is that there are far too many humans that not only require feeding but many people have got used to a very materialistic lifestyle. I used to live for some time without electricity, I was young then and could do everything manually. Naturally as we get older we can't run around (although I still seem to) like two year olds. So I then had some appliances that were electrically powered to help my daily life. I have to work still to earn an income. In my younger days (up to my late 30's) I cycled to work and back, fifteen miles of hilly roads. Now because my work has changed I need a van. Without it I can't do my work. So life actually traps us into doing things that we don't necessarily want to do. If I was rich I wouldn't need a van or mant electrical aids and I could spend my time more at one with the Dao way of living. But most people are trapped one way or another. What I was interested in is what have people done in their own lives to help the fastening climate change?

[windwalker]

32 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

Doing something is better than nothing. The reality is that there are far too many humans

 

Always said by those, who've benefited from modern technology, lifestyle. 

 

The reason there are too many humans can be directly attributed to Western technologies and science enabling more to live.

 

Which as many seem to want on this site, to do away with and go back to the natural way of living.

 

I should say they want others to go back to the natural way of living,  they do like to write about it, some how never get around to doing it.

 

Yep, to many humans.  

Very true

 

Embrace death as part of life learn how to die well, doing so one will understand how to live well.

Edited February 23, 2019 by windwalker

[Jonesboy]

Let’s look at some local (my local) climate change propaganda that happened this week shall we.

 

Two weeks ago, Flagstaff, Arizona joined the fight against global warming. They were immediately rewarded with the largest one day snowfall on record, and rescued Minneapolis from global warming at the same time.

 

 

Eight weeks ago, the Arizona Republic Repulsive announced the end of snow in Flagstaff, due to global warming.

 

Now, of course this one day of heavy snow is more proof of climate change even though the end of snow was announced in the mountains forever just days earlier.

 

Let’s see if history can tell us anything...

 

That was nowhere near the record of 60 inches set in 1967.

 

20 Dec 1967, Page 1 – Arizona Republic at Newspapers.com

Toto’s friend tells me that her next door neighbor was there for the 1967 storm, and that it was a man-made disaster. The city had sold their snow plows earlier in the year, because they never used them. Apparently, lack of snow is a thing of the past in Arizona.

https://realclimatescience.com/

 

 

Only with climate change is it okay to be wrong all the time.

[flowing hands]

40 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

Always said by those, who've benefited from modern technology, lifestyle. 

 

The reason there are too many humans can be directly attributed to Western technologies and science enabling more to live.

 

Which as many seem to want on this site, to do away with and go back to the natural way of living.

 

I should say they want others to go back to the natural way of living,  they do like to write about it, some how never get around to doing it.

 

Yep, to many humans.  

Very true

 

Embrace death as part of life learn how to die well, doing so one will understand how to live well.

I've got to say you are always contrary. Personally I have lived a very simple life, so I have experienced that and it is obvious that modern technology and medicine has kept people alive longer. This really is not the point, but what can we do with the situation we find ourselves in now? We will ignore the nasayers who are just trying derail the thread, because they think that science has told them that in the USA Climate change doesn't exist. There are very strong political reasons why this is coming from the USA.

[windwalker]

8 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

This really is not the point, but what can we do with the situation we find ourselves in now? We will ignore the nasayers who are just trying derail the thread, because they think that science has told them that in the USA Climate change doesn't exist.

 

what can "you" do not we....not I. 

 

No one has said climate change does not exist. what many talk about is the rate .

 

Climate has changed and will change.  The real issue is one of rate allowing for adaptation.

The other issue is that those that can not adapte mostly 3rd world countries who tend to be overpopulated

also tend to be the most affected by changes. 

 

Any Country that manages to affect their whether will have the power to effect others either directly or indirectly.

[ralis]

23 minutes ago, Jonesboy said:

Let’s look at some local (my local) climate change propaganda that happened this week shall we.

 

Two weeks ago, Flagstaff, Arizona joined the fight against global warming. They were immediately rewarded with the largest one day snowfall on record, and rescued Minneapolis from global warming at the same time.

 

 

 

Eight weeks ago, the Arizona Republic Repulsive announced the end of snow in Flagstaff, due to global warming.

 

Now, of course this one day of heavy snow is more proof of climate change even though the end of snow was announced in the mountains forever just days earlier.

 

Let’s see if history can tell us anything...

 

That was nowhere near the record of 60 inches set in 1967.

 

20 Dec 1967, Page 1 – Arizona Republic at Newspapers.com

Toto’s friend tells me that her next door neighbor was there for the 1967 storm, and that it was a man-made disaster. The city had sold their snow plows earlier in the year, because they never used them. Apparently, lack of snow is a thing of the past in Arizona.

https://realclimatescience.com/

 

 

Only with climate change is it okay to be wrong all the time.

 

Once again, you are confusing local weather with climate in which the latter is defined by the climatic conditions of the entire biosphere over a period of time, i.e, not one weather event. The blog referred to is not based on research, but propaganda as disseminated by paid shills representing the fossil fuel industry, including the Republican propagandist Frank Luntz.

 

Cut/paste with no comments of your own does not lead to any fruitful discussion here. 

[Jonesboy]

11 minutes ago, ralis said:

 

Once again, you are confusing local weather with climate in which the latter is defined by the climatic conditions of the entire biosphere over a period of time, i.e, not one weather event. The blog referred to is not based on research, but propaganda as disseminated by paid shills representing the fossil fuel industry, including the Republican propagandist Frank Luntz.

 

Cut/paste with no comments of your own does not lead to any fruitful discussion here. 

 

Local weather would be impacted by global climate change. If it isn’t then I look forward to you denouncing fake news from the media within the thread explaining how the are wrong about there local climate change agenda. You can start by discussing how 9000 cities are teaming up against climate change when they are wrong about local compared to the biosphere.

 

Everything else in your post is just ungrounded uninformed attacks without any merit. Other than that a good post ralis.

[ralis]

11 minutes ago, Jonesboy said:

 

Local weather would be impacted by global climate change. If it isn’t then I look forward to you denouncing fake news from the media within the thread explaining how the are wrong about there local climate change agenda. You can start by discussing how 9000 cities are teaming up against climate change when they are wrong about local compared to the biosphere.

 

Everything else in your post is just ungrounded uninformed attacks without any merit. Other than that a good post ralis.

 

For any discussion to ensue, are you convinced that CO2 emissions emitted by human activity are the cause of Anthropogenic Global Warming, id est, AGW?

[Jonesboy]

Summer is right around the corner and every year it seems new extreme weather comes with it.

 

Let’s take a trip down memory lane to 1913 to see what was happening then across America.

 

Also, please pay attention to the NASA graph of that time.

 

NASA – Losing The Heat Of 1913

Posted on July 10, 2018 by tonyheller

On this date in 1913, California set the world’s all-time temperature record of 134 degrees. It was the first of three days over 130 degrees that week.  By contrast, no place in the United States has reached 130 degrees any time in at least the last 55 years.



PDFfiller – mwr-050-01-0010.pdf – docs.lib.noaa.gov – docs lib.pdf

Unlike the vast majority of the thermometers used by NASA, NOAA and Berkeley Earth to generate their fake global temperature graphs, these measurements were taken using high quality equipment and standard methodology.



https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/sites/default/files/coop-form-greenland-ranch-july-1913.pdf

The summer of 1913 was second or third hottest on record in Missouri, with fifty-six days over 100 degrees. Most stations in Missouri have have not reached 100 degrees any time in the last three years.



The 1913 heat was across most of the country and lasted all summer.



03 Jul 1913, Page 2 – The Logan Republican at Newspapers.com

NASA has identified the record heat of 1913 as being among the coldest on record.



graph.png (1130×600)

Houston had some of their worst flooding in 1913, even without CNN hysterics.



The worst floods on record in the Ohio Valley also occurred during 1913.

 

In the world of climate science seance, record hot is reported as record cold, and reality never interrupts the global warming agenda.

 

Just image if weather like that happened today and how people would freak out.

 

 

[Jonesboy]

1 minute ago, ralis said:

 

For any discussion to ensue, are you convinced that CO2 emissions emitted by human activity are the cause of Anthropogenic Global Warming, id est, AGW?

 

No, not even a little bit.

[flowing hands]

17 minutes ago, Jonesboy said:

Summer is right around the corner and every year it seems new extreme weather comes with it.

 

Let’s take a trip down memory lane to 1913 to see what was happening then across America.

 

Also, please pay attention to the NASA graph of that time.

 

 

 

 But for thousands of years there has been dramatic events and freak weather, that doesn't say that human pollution and interference is not causing more changes and greater changes now.

[Jonesboy]

7 minutes ago, flowing hands said:

 But for thousands of years there has been dramatic events and freak weather, that doesn't say that human pollution and interference is not causing more changes and greater changes now.

 

Pollution is a serious problem but separate from climate change as it is being argued by the media and governments.

 

There is zero evidence of extreme weather or more changes, whatever that means.

 

What is always left out of climate debates is the impact of the sun.

Edited February 23, 2019 by Jonesboy

[ralis]

27 minutes ago, Jonesboy said:

 

No, not even a little bit.

 

It is a very complex subject in which the rules of complex nonlinear dynamic systems apply. The blog you cut/paste from fails to discuss such basic considerations. BTW, this planetary biosphere does not belong to you and the cabal of AGW deniers alone!!

[flowing hands]

7 minutes ago, Jonesboy said:

 

Pollution is a serious problem but separate from climate change as it is being argued by the media and governments.

 

There is zero evidence of extreme weather or more changes, whatever that means.

 

What is always left out of climate debates is the impact of the sun.

What we do know since measurements were taken that the sea has risen by a significant amount.

[dawei]

I'm no climate changer advocate...  as I've stated, global cycles exists and human population by the law of numbers should mean we'll contribute than say 2,000 years ago.  I'm not going to argue against that.

 

What I do simply agree with is we should continue to make better use of technology and reduce our emissions however possible.  Alternate energy seems a good idea.    Electric cars is something I'm on the fence about as there is the problem of disposing of the batteries... but on the surface it seems reasonable to look into... but GM is killing themselves to think they can retrofit themselves into an electric car maker too fast.