Climate Change

[d4rr3n]

1 hour ago, ralis said:

Are you denying human activity as the primary cause of AGW?

Yes the increase in planet temperature currently being experienced by ALL the planets in our solar system is due to increased solar activity. The Sun is not like a light bulb with a continuous output, its output increases and decreases rhythmically like a heart beating. When it increases ALL the planets in our solar system experience planetary warming and when it decreases ALL the planets in the solar system experience planetary cooling, in the case of our planet the Ice ages.

[d4rr3n]

54 minutes ago, sean said:

I am not the one who is the victim of brainwashing taxation scam...that would be you!

[ralis]

7 minutes ago, d4rr3n said:

Yes the increase in planet temperature currently being experienced by ALL the planets in our solar system is due to increased solar activity. The Sun is not like a light bulb with a continuous output, its output increases and decreases rhythmically like a heart beating. When it increases ALL the planets in our solar system experience planetary warming and when it decreases ALL the planets in the solar system experience planetary cooling, in the case of our planet the Ice ages.

The science is not on your side on this! I suggest you read the owner of this site as to what he said regarding AGW denial here. Look in tech support area. 
 

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by ralis

[d4rr3n]

4 minutes ago, ralis said:

The science is not on your side on this! I suggest you read the owner of this site as to what he said regarding AGW denial here. Look in tech support area. 
 

 

Ur how am I now "right wing" ?

[ralis]

1 minute ago, d4rr3n said:

Ur how am I now "right wing" ?

I guess you didn’t read the entire post where it states no global warming denial. 

[d4rr3n]

21 minutes ago, ralis said:

I guess you didn’t read the entire post where it states no global warming denial. 

But I have not denied global warming have I?

[sean]

[ralis]

6 minutes ago, d4rr3n said:

But I have not denied global warming have I?

Denial of human caused AGW. You have equated solar heat as the main driver. Big mistake!

[sean]

Uh oh. Pack it up fellas, we're victims of a brainwashing taxation scam. LMAO. Fortunately we've got an extremely smart boy here to help us see things clearly.

 

Sean

 

[Earl Grey]

3 hours ago, sean said:

Uh oh. Pack it up fellas, we're victims of a brainwashing taxation scam. LMAO. Fortunately we've got an extremely smart boy here to help us see things clearly.

 

Sean

 

He’s a messiah for the planetary masses who sasses that it’s all gasses coming out of our asses but he’s just thick as molasses with how he harasses!

Edited October 15, 2019 by Earl Grey

[sean]

51 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

He’s a messiah for the planetary masses who sasses that it’s all gasses coming out of our asses but he’s just thick as molasses with how he harasses!

 

I liked his "hurr durr how am I right wing? Preposterous! I'm only merely regurgitating right-wing, easily debunkable talking points that climate change is unrelated to human activity and just a hoax to * wait for it * increase mah taaaxes."

 

Sean

 

[Earl Grey]

Just now, sean said:

 

I liked his "hurr durr how am I right wing? Preposterous! I'm only merely regurgitating right-wing, easily debunkable talking points that climate change is unrelated to human activity and just a hoax to *cough* increase taxes."

 

Sean

 

How crass! He thinks he surpasses science’s top brass when in truth he has no class so let’s all just take a hard pass!
 

It’s as clear as glass that one look at the grass and we already know that the earth has reached critical mass!

 

Come what may let us not delay our combined efforts to allay the inevitable disaster that is already happening today based on what Miss Thurnberg has to say!

[Zork]

8 hours ago, d4rr3n said:

Yes the increase in planet temperature currently being experienced by ALL the planets in our solar system is due to increased solar activity. The Sun is not like a light bulb with a continuous output, its output increases and decreases rhythmically like a heart beating. When it increases ALL the planets in our solar system experience planetary warming and when it decreases ALL the planets in the solar system experience planetary cooling, in the case of our planet the Ice ages.

This is wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Maximum

The Modern Maximum^[1] refers to the period of relatively high solar activity^[2] which began with Solar Cycle 15 in 1914. It reached a maximum in Cycle 19 during the late 1950s and may have ended with the peak of Cycle 23 in 2000, as Cycle 24 is recording, at best, very muted solar activity.^[3] Another proposed end date for the maximum is 2007, with the decline phase of Cycle 23. In any case the low solar activity of Cycle 24 in the 2010s marked a new period of reduced solar activity.

This maximum period is a natural example of solar variation, and one of many that are known from proxy records of past solar variability. The Modern Maximum reached a double peak once in the 1950s and again during the 1990s.

 

Where do you get your facts from??

[Phantalor]

I know im somewhat halfway into this post an did not read it completely.... but why the Hell do all talk about climate change as the main point? 

I mean Yeah the climate is changing, but it is changing all the time ... historically seen we are in an ice age, and 80% of the earths history there was no frozen polar cap, so maybe climate just goes back to warm time or normal time...

But what the problem at hand is, is that we are fastening that process, we can by no means stop  it, even if we cling to that notion that it may be possible. What we can do is slowing that process down, so that we may survive a little bit longer. But inevitably it will get warmer, and the climate will change.

But what we have to do is to clean the environment and stop the industrially made destruction, so that even with the changing climate, we can find a way to accomodate our existence, because nature will every time find a way to survive, but through our actions, nature may find mankind as bothersome.

[Zork]

1 hour ago, Phantalor said:

I know im somewhat halfway into this post an did not read it completely.... but why the Hell do all talk about climate change as the main point? 

I mean Yeah the climate is changing, but it is changing all the time ... historically seen we are in an ice age, and 80% of the earths history there was no frozen polar cap, so maybe climate just goes back to warm time or normal time...

But what the problem at hand is, is that we are fastening that process, we can by no means stop  it, even if we cling to that notion that it may be possible. What we can do is slowing that process down, so that we may survive a little bit longer. But inevitably it will get warmer, and the climate will change.

But what we have to do is to clean the environment and stop the industrially made destruction, so that even with the changing climate, we can find a way to accomodate our existence, because nature will every time find a way to survive, but through our actions, nature may find mankind as bothersome.

The problem isn't the change, the climate is always is in flux like you said.

The problem lies in the RATE the changes are happening because the various species and ultimately humanity can't adapt to the new environment!

Flora and fauna can't cope with the 1^o C or more increase because they are adapted to certain local conditions which change drastically because of that seemingly innocuous increase.

https://www.dw.com/en/invasive-poisonous-fish-on-the-rise-in-the-mediterranean/a-19345848

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2914016/

See what happens when waters warm up even a little?

 

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by Zork

[Phantalor]

2 hours ago, Zork said:

Flora and fauna can't cope with the 1^o C or more increase because they are adapted to certain local conditions which change drastically because of that seemingly innocuous increase.

https://www.dw.com/en/invasive-poisonous-fish-on-the-rise-in-the-mediterranean/a-19345848

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2914016/

See what happens when waters warm up even a little?

 

That statement is not different from what i said, just that it is sugarcoated, as i said, the changes in nature may make her to find us bothersome, so well we will die out in one way or another if we don´t do something.

But going by biodiversity, the main factor you mentioned, is still humankinds exploits of nature.  Going by the mediterran it would be overfishing, and pollution. 

Going by the ncbi article climate change is "only" 4th place, main places are habitat degradation ( caused by different factors)   exploitation and pollution. 

Nature could most likely cope with 1°C increase in temperature. But it can not cope with it if the areas are polluted and destroyed by tourism etc... 

Nature is in normal cases self regulating but only up to the point where humans destroy the regulating factors. Warming up the water would be ok, but not with a broken balance, where idiotic humans introduce steadily factors that further destroy the balance. For example ... Dubai (ok thats not mediterran) in its whole, the lion headed fish, tourists that kill coral reefs for wathever reason, fishing like there is no tomorrow, cruise ships ... and that list can be lengthened indefinitly ...

 

TL;DR, Not the climate change is the Problem but human introduced factors that change/destroy the balance of nature

Edited October 15, 2019 by Phantalor

[Zork]

1 hour ago, Phantalor said:

Nature could most likely cope with 1°C increase in temperature. But it can not cope with it if the areas are polluted and destroyed by tourism etc... 

On the contrary the importance of these is reversed. A 1C increase will kill corals and marine life due to the change on pH and salinity of the waters alone. Pollution goes away after a time. Even heavy metals like lead form insoluble salts and settle. Water temperature increase has lasting effects.

 

1 hour ago, Phantalor said:

For example ... Dubai (ok thats not mediterran) in its whole, the lion headed fish, tourists that kill coral reefs for wathever reason, fishing like there is no tomorrow, cruise ships ... and that list can be lengthened indefinitly ...

The example is wrong. the lion fish is not native to the Mediterranean but it is in Dubai. Plus it is a very effective and antagonistic species which invades the Mediterranean due to the fact that water temperatures have gone up. It is a warm water fish which has invaded through the Suez canal. The canal exists for 200 years yet the problem arose recently. Pollution was always a thing in the area. Warm waters were not. 

[Phantalor]

56 minutes ago, Zork said:

On the contrary the importance of these is reversed. A 1C increase will kill corals and marine life due to the change on pH and salinity of the waters alone. Pollution goes away after a time. Even heavy metals like lead form insoluble salts and settle. Water temperature increase has lasting effects.

... as far as my chemical expertise goes, pollution is the cause of lower pH which in return kills corals.

water takes up CO2 which is part of our extensive generated pollution. Water absorbs CO2 because of the higher partial pressure. This in return binds ions, which lowers the pH of the Water. Funny thing is it directly binds CO2 which counteracts warming, but at the same it would be less severe if there was no warming, as the partial pressure is dependant on temperature.

But what kills the corals is sadly not the lower pH or temperature which are the numbers you can measure, but the due to the CO2 bound Ions, that are missing.

So in a sense we are both right.

 

1 hour ago, Zork said:

The example is wrong. the lion fish is not native to the Mediterranean but it is in Dubai. Plus it is a very effective and antagonistic species which invades the Mediterranean due to the fact that water temperatures have gone up. It is a warm water fish which has invaded through the Suez canal. The canal exists for 200 years yet the problem arose recently. Pollution was always a thing in the area. Warm waters were not. 

i gave only examples where humans changed the balance of nature, Dubai is the prime example, a "green" city in the desert and new islands that were not rised by nature.

as for the fish there is no clear cut explanation, some say it wanderd, others said aquarists brought it over, but clear is it needed some niche to wander, so somehow or other all factors played a role here (fishing, pollution etc.)  

Also there is no clear cut term for pollution, more CO2 in water can also count and that came up massively in the last 100 years and became truly apparent in around the last 50 years

[voidisyinyang]

6 hours ago, Phantalor said:

. historically seen we are in an ice age, and 80% of the earths history there was no frozen polar cap, so maybe climate just goes back to warm time or normal time...

But what the problem at hand is, is that we are fastening that process, we can by no means stop  it, even if we cling to that notion that it may be possible.

http://arctic-news.blogspot.com/2019/10/arctic-ocean-october-2019.html

So according to the scientists - the arctic is currently 44% warmer than what it is supposed to be.

The rate of warming will continue to accelerate due to the Methane Bomb going off in the East Siberian Arctic Shelf.

This did make Newsweek but they, of course did not mention the global context.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/10/11/methane-sos/

Quote

 

 

 

Global warming is on speed, especially in northern latitudes where an international team of scientists led by Igor Semiletov of Tomsk Polytechnic University, Russia’s oldest technical institution, recently made a startling discovery aboard the Academic Mstislav Keldysh (see photo above), the kind of discovery that sends chills down the spine, i.e., “methane bubbles boiling in water.”

 

According to Semiletov: “This is the most powerful seep I have ever been able to observe… No one has ever recorded anything similar.” (Source: Research Vessel Encounters Giant Methane Seep in Arctic Waters, The Maritime Executive, Oct. 10, 2019)

That’s bad news for the entire world community as the East Siberian Arctic Shelf hasn’t been on the radar of mainstream science for years, but only recently the global scientific community has come to realize the inherent danger. After all, the massive continental East Siberian Arctic Shelf is the size of Germany, France, Great Britain, Italy, and Japan combined, and it is jammed full of methane buried at sea beneath underwater permafrost. But, it’s starting to leak big time, and this could be one of the biggest problems of all time for civilization, with staggering consequences.

 

The scientists were able to scoop up buckets full of bubbling methane from within the five square meter hot spot. The next day the expedition discovered another giant seep hot spot in the same region. The air in the vicinity registered methane concentrations of up to 16 ppm, which is 9xs the background rate. Semiletov said it is the “highest ever registered for a seep at sea.” He’s explored the Arctic forty times.

 

This is the ONLY article that gives the recent documented Methane explosion in the arctic it's proper global context!!

Quote

 

Thereafter, Jamail discussed the work of Natalia Shakhova, who was formerly the head of the International Arctic Research Center at the University of Alaska. She has done seminal work on the East Siberian Arctic Shelf. Her research indicates that enormous bursts of methane could occur at any time as the subsea permafrost is rapidly thinning. She has discussed the potential of a 50-gigaton burst, although it is very controversial within the scientific community. It would equal 1,000 gigatons of CO2.

 

For perspective, “since 1850, human influenced CO2 emitted into the atmosphere has been 1,475 gigatons over the past 170 years,” Ibid, pg. 198. Thus, a 50-gigaton burst would be similar to 116 years of CO2 emissions released all at once.

The consequences of such a burst “may cause an approximately 12-times increase of modern atmospheric methane burden with consequent catastrophic greenhouse warming,” Ibid, pg. 198.

 

So the corporate-state media keeps allowing "tidbits" of news to get out about abrupt global warming but has YET to discuss the global context. Maybe http://democracynow.org has discussed it - I emailed them a year ago asking them to cover this story.

https://www.democracynow.org/search?utf8=✓&query=methane

nope.

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by voidisyinyang

[ralis]

1 hour ago, Phantalor said:

... as far as my chemical expertise goes, pollution is the cause of lower pH which in return kills corals.

water takes up CO2 which is part of our extensive generated pollution. Water absorbs CO2 because of the higher partial pressure. This in return binds ions, which lowers the pH of the Water. Funny thing is it directly binds CO2 which counteracts warming, but at the same it would be less severe if there was no warming, as the partial pressure is dependant on temperature.

But what kills the corals is sadly not the lower pH or temperature which are the numbers you can measure, but the due to the CO2 bound Ions, that are missing.

So in a sense we are both right.

 

i gave only examples where humans changed the balance of nature, Dubai is the prime example, a "green" city in the desert and new islands that were not rised by nature.

as for the fish there is no clear cut explanation, some say it wanderd, others said aquarists brought it over, but clear is it needed some niche to wander, so somehow or other all factors played a role here (fishing, pollution etc.)  

Also there is no clear cut term for pollution, more CO2 in water can also count and that came up massively in the last 100 years and became truly apparent in around the last 50 years

 

Oceans are a CO2 sink in which the oceans are moving into a slight acidic pH range. Crustaceans form shells from calcium carbonate and any variation of pH will prevent shell formation. 

[voidisyinyang]

On 10/15/2019 at 11:35 AM, ralis said:

 

Oceans are a CO2 sink in which the oceans are moving into a slight acidic pH range. Crustaceans form shells from calcium carbonate and any variation of pH will prevent shell formation. 

https://www.vancourier.com/permafrost-emits-more-carbon-in-winter-than-plants-absorb-in-summer-study-1.23984137

Permafrost emits more carbon in winter than plants absorb in summer: study

[ralis]

https://e360.yale.edu/features/why-rising-acidification-poses-a-special-peril-for-warming-arctic-waters

 

 

Quote

That tipping point involves certain carbonate minerals that are essential to shell-building organisms. Carbonate ions, normally present at high, or “saturated,” concentrations in seawater, help buffer the acid produced when carbon dioxide reacts with water. But as marine carbon levels climb, more and more carbonate ions are being used up, lowering the ocean’s ability to buffer, and causing acidity — measured as a drop in pH — to rise. Those same carbonate ions are needed by creatures like starfish and clams, whose shells or skeletons are made of the calcium carbonate minerals aragonite or calcite.

As the carbonate levels in seawater decrease, mollusks and other shell-building creatures find it increasingly difficult to get enough ions to build and maintain their shells. And at a sufficiently low carbonate concentration — called undersaturation — the shells begin to corrode.

Models predict that large parts of the Arctic will cross this threshold as early as 2030, and researchers forecast that most Arctic waters will lack adequate aragonite for shell-building organisms by the 2080s. As the corrosive water spreads, it will spill into neighboring regions such as the North Atlantic, where it could impact the ocean food web and threaten important fisheries. Already, high levels of acidification in the cold waters of the North Pacific have caused some oyster die-offs in the U.S. Pacific Northwest.

Not only do these cold waters act like a sponge for atmospheric carbon, but many areas are also being diluted with freshwater from melting ice and increasing river flows, which further reduces their buffering capacity. To make matters worse, marine life in the Arctic is particularly vulnerable to the effects of acidification because it is accustomed to consistent pH levels — unlike ecosystems, such as estuaries, where creatures have adapted to variable pH conditions.

 

[gendao]

On 9/29/2019 at 2:35 AM, rideforever said:

If Christianity was still the dominant force the loving God with all your might and your neighbour as your self would be dominant.

Lol, no if Christianity was dominant, then global colonization (the complete deletion, displacement, and replacement of all Old World, aboriginal cultures) would have happened!

Quote

Genesis 1:26 - let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Deuteronomy 12:12 - These are the decrees and laws you must be careful to follow in the land that the Lord, the God of your ancestors, has given you to possess - as long as you live in the land.
Destroy completely all the places on the high mountains, on the hills and under every spreading tree, where the nations you are dispossessing worship their gods.
Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones and burn their Asherah poles in the fire; cut down the idols of their gods and wipe out their names from those places.

Quote

Treaties, and the U.S. government’s history of unilaterally breaching them, have had a profound effect on Native people. To be blunt, we were lied to. Treaties were used as a ruse to coax tribes out of defending their territory and to steal Native lands and resources.
The government also defaulted on payments to the Dakota. It kept more than 80% of the money. Of the payments that were made, the government often gave the money directly to traders who were supposed to supply the Dakota with rations.
About 400 Dakota were arrested by the U.S. military. Ultimately, 38 Dakota men were hung in the largest mass execution in U.S. history, in Mankato, Minnesota, on December 26, 1862, under the orders of President Abraham Lincoln.
The governor of Minnesota put a bounty on the scalps of every Dakota man, woman, and child.
Women and children were slaughtered there. They even killed the Dakota’s dogs and horses.
The Black Hills are the birthplace of the Lakota. Important ceremonies that bring harmony to the Universe have been held there for millennia.
Lakota treaty land also includes the Standing Rock Sioux Reservation, where I was born and where water protectors camped out for nearly a year to prevent the construction of the Dakota Access pipeline through ancient Oceti Sakowin burial sites and under the freshwater source of millions of people downstream, both Native, and non-Native.

Quote

RAPID CITY, SOUTH DAKOTA –– Yet another federally funded “improvement” project threatens to further undermine the sanctity and integrity of a culturally relevant Native American landmark in the Black Hills, or Paha Sapa.
Pe Sla is the genuine, living heart of the Black Hills for the region’s indigenous peoples. For thousands of years prior to European invasion, the Lakota prayed and paid ritualistic homage to the earth and sky, as well as to everything in between and beyond, unencumbered at Pe Sla.

Ohhhh, wait...guess it did!  Mission accomplished!

 

It still mystifies me today when Christian apologists simply somehow Disneyfy Christianity into a bumper sticker labeled "LOVE"...and leave out all the fear, hatred, destruction, and killing espoused (and carried out on a global scale).... 
But just remember, it actually sits at the TOP OF THE FLOW CHART here!

Edited October 29, 2019 by gendao

[rideforever]

.
 

Edited October 28, 2019 by rideforever

[Walker]

The Guardian: Climate crisis: 11,000 scientists warn of ‘untold suffering’