Climate Change

[windwalker]

8 minutes ago, ralis said:

One initial condition such as CO2 CH4 will cause massive changes out of control.

 

 

Control of what by whom?

 

Seas were 100ft higher long ago, Co2 was much higher

all before human kind appeared on the scene. 

 

Who was in control then.? ...

[thelerner]

7 hours ago, windwalker said:

Control of what by whom?

 

Seas were 100ft higher long ago, Co2 was much higher

all before human kind appeared on the scene. 

 

Who was in control then.? ...

The answer is Nature and she can still wipe us out.  But modern humans are now a force of nature.  Our industry, our output is unprecedented.  We can produce disaster scenarios all by ourselves.  No natural disaster needed.  We are the disaster.  Thankfully a slow motion one and with intelligent policies and good science we can stave off the man made apocalii, given time, intelligence and effort maybe soften some of the Natural ones too.  

 

We, not mother nature have knocked out, made extinct dozens (100s, 1000s?) of species.  We, not mother nature have caused this planets 6th mass extinction.  We are the comet, the ice age.. we have brought global death beyond biblical destruction to countless eco-systems.  I still like us, but if we're not smart, we will choke on our own poison, and before we do, it will be hell on earth for the last couple human generations. 

 

Things are good now, its a big earth, big atmosphere, but without intelligent management we will poison it.  We need to move environmental science out of the political realm, and see what actions get us the best bang for the lowest buck. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

p.s anyone using apocalii from now on owes me 20 cents. 

 

 

 

Edited March 16, 2019 by thelerner

[windwalker]

18 minutes ago, thelerner said:

We are the disaster.  Thankfully a slow motion one and with intelligent policies and good science we can stave off the man made apocalii, given time, intelligence and effort maybe soften some of the Natural ones too.  

 

I would say you and some others are the disaster

 

a little old but sums it up very good....

 

 

[thelerner]

funny man, but Carlins dead.  Getting your science from a late night comedienne might not be the most intelligent way.  Carlin flunked out of high school, though he later earned an equivalency.  

I understand he's your focus, but probably better if you learned from scientists not satirists. 

 

addon> Carlin (1937-2009) when he was born Los Angeles had clear skies, they rapidly got worse and worse, cars and industry created choking smog.  It's not great now, but its much much better.  It was awful.  quick read-

Photos: L.A.’s mid-century smog was so bad, people thought it was a gas attack Pollution earned the city the nickname ‘Smell-A’https://timeline.com/la-smog-pollution-4ca4bc0cc95d

there's a picture from 1958 of people wearing gas masks in public.  It was as bad or worse in Pittsburgh which had been the Pneumonia capital of the U.S and all the buildings were stained black from the coal and pollution.  Today if you go through it, they kept one building unwashed, blackened as a reminder of how bad it was.  It was killing us, back in the 50's. 

 

We smartened up.  We passed the the Clean Air Act in 1963, we put catalytic converters into our cars, we stopped putting lead into our gasoline.  We listened to scientists.  Yes it cost money, but it saved lives, it made our cities liveable again.  Thank god we did it, otherwise we'd be in gas masks right now.  And there are parts of the world that are choking to death. 

 

We don't have to.  Listening to science, not satirists can make our lives our better, because we have changed things.  Without having to sacrifice life quality, matter of fact, without the changes we'd be living in a toilet. 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2019 by thelerner

[windwalker]

6 hours ago, thelerner said:

I understand he's your focus, but probably better if you learned from scientists not satirists. 

 

be better if you and some others were chorent 

 

scientists have been  posted to support  different viewpoints

according to some here they'er all shills,,,,,maybe you feel the same

oddly enough the scientists that support their and maybe your viewpoints are not....

 

Climate changes, has changed and will change.

 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2019 by windwalker

[windwalker]

of course it could get cold

 

 

[Taoist Texts]

3 hours ago, windwalker said:

according to some here they'er all shills,

they are despicable shills, and they know that they enable the destruction of the west by the predatory elite (carbon credits). Except they dont care what happens next.

The whole west will be destroyed over the next 100 years. In parallel, the Islamic countries will lob crude nukes at each other till the Islamic zone ceases to exist. After that the world will be split into the starving American continent (one big Venezuela), ghettoized Europe and the thriving Chinese colonial zone. That will be quite the climate change indeed.;)

[voidisyinyang]

7 hours ago, windwalker said:

 

be better if you and some others were chorent 

 

scientists have been  posted to support  different viewpoints

according to some here they'er all shills,,,,,maybe you feel the same

oddly enough the scientists that support their and maybe your viewpoints are not....

 

Climate changes, has changed and will change.

 

Quote

 

“YouTube and other social media platforms have exacerbated the misinformation problem in a number of ways — whether it's creating echo chambers for science denial, making it easy for misinformers to micro-target audiences, or funneling its users to extremist content,” says Dr. John Cook of George Mason University’s Center for Climate Change Communication.

 

“In the case of YouTube, their algorithms result in extremist content like climate denial receiving millions of views. However, YouTube's response has been entirely inadequate. Adding a generic link to Wikipedia under denialist videos is like slapping a tiny bandaid on a large, open wound.”

 

While at the University of Queensland in Australia, Cook led a study showing that 97 percent of climate scientists agreed that global warming was caused by human activity. Cook also led the production of a free Massive Online Open Course, through the university, to explain the science of climate denial, producing many debunking videos that also appear on YouTube.

 

https://www.desmogblog.com/2019/02/24/youtube-video-serious-climate-science-denial-problem?utm_source=dsb newsletter

 

oops. Interwebs vs. science. Who will win?

 

 

[windwalker]

4 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

they are despicable shills, and they know that they enable the destruction of the west by the predatory elite (carbon credits). Except they dont care what happens next.

 

to add 

 

Quote

oops. Interwebs vs. science. Who will win?

 

one ends getting stupid comments like this revealing their true nature instead of a rational discussion, and yet claiming to understand or know whats going on....In the end is it about winning  

 

 

 

The real problem is not climate change its human population which as the climate changes, it will effect the population.

 

era                life expectancy 

Paleolithic

33

 

 

2014 world average[32]

71.5

 

They don't seem to understand its modern tech that enables longer life for most. As of yet there is no viable alternative for fossil fuels that allow it to be so.   

 

one who is very vocal about the "problem"

 

"Gore has been involved with environmental issues since 1976, when as a freshman congressman, he held the "first congressional hearings on the climate change, and co-sponsor[ed] hearings on toxic waste and global warming."[60][61] He continued to speak on the topic throughout the 1980s,[62] and is still prevalent in the environmental community. He was known as one of the Atari Democrats, later called the "Democrats' Greens, politicians who see issues like clean air, clean water and global warming as the key to future victories for their party."[63][212]"

 

 

 

"

Gore’s mansion, located in the posh Belle Meade area of Nashville, consumes more electricity every month than the average American household uses in an entire year, according to the Nashville Electric
Service (NES)

.

In his documentary, the former Vice President calls on Americans to conserve energy by reducing electricity consumption at home.

The average household in America consumes 10,656 kilowatt-hours (kWh) per year, according to the Department of Energy. In 2006, Gore devoured nearly 221,000 kWh – more than 20 times the national average."

 

 

interesting they want others to conserve asking others to conserve or do with out while they enjoy

what they ask others to do with out.

.

Find it amusing.   Guess he needs a big house,,,,maybe everyone should have a big house....

 

 

  

  

Edited March 17, 2019 by windwalker

[voidisyinyang]

On 3/17/2019 at 9:27 AM, windwalker said:

 

 

The real problem is not climate change its human population which as the climate changes, it will effect the population.

 

era                life expectancy 

Paleolithic

33

 

 

2014 world average[32]

71.5

 

Age is like Economics - you don't want average - you want MEDIAN.

https://understandinguncertainty.org/why-life-expectancy-misleading-summary-survival

Quote

They don't seem to understand its modern tech that enables longer life for most. As of yet there is no viable alternative for fossil fuels that allow it to be so.   

 

one who is very vocal about the "problem"

 

"Gore has been involved with environmental issues since 1976, when as a freshman congressman, he held the "first congressional hearings on the climate change, and co-sponsor[ed] hearings on toxic waste and global warming."[60][61] He continued to speak on the topic throughout the 1980s,[62] and is still prevalent in the environmental community. He was known as one of the Atari Democrats, later called the "Democrats' Greens, politicians who see issues like clean air, clean water and global warming as the key to future victories for their party."[63][212]"

 

  

 

I personally chewed out Vice President Al Gore in the basement of the VFW by Mall of America - he flew away in his helicopter with his 12 secret service men. I'll get you the details.... oh I don't mention how a cop pulled me over, never said why and I never talked to him - just handed him what he asked for and then he went back to his car to record my info - then said "thanks." Strange huH? Usually a cop is gonna tell you WHY they pull you over. haha.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/corporations/conversations/topics/803

March 10, 2000

Activists Confront Gore about the U'WA in half-hour mtg.

Contact Drew Hempel at hemp0027@...

Rainforest Action Network activists in the Twin Cities Minnesota, on the
night of March 10th, had about a half hour confrontation with Vice
President Gore--a private meeting. that occurred in the basement of the
VFW, just after his campaign speech. The meeting was extremely interesting
since we confronted him on many issues and basically spelled out an
anti-elite democratic vision to Gore. Below is my description of the
event--(I refer to other activists as "another" even though sometimes it
maybe the same person again--names were never ok'd for this breaking news
release. Following the description is further background info. on the
issue). The general protest during his speech was scantily dismissed on
National Public Radio and in the Twin Cities paper--the corporate media
just regurgitated the destructive views of Gore as usual.

Upon Arrival at the VFW....The "Speech"

"He's a protester, He's one of them!" cried out one of the Gore
campaigners. I was pulled aside by secret service as I approached the
entryway. The secret service dog was enjoying my smelly socks in my
backpack but the man looking through the bag did not even notice the stack
of "Who is Al Gore?" fliers. According to the campaigners, apparently if I
disagree with Gore, I can't go see him. But after promising that I hadn't
handed out the fliers, that I would not yell anything, that I didn't have a
banner, and that I would not hand anything out inside, they let me in. So
much for first amendment rights. The VFW Hall was an intimate gathering of
mainly union people, VFW people, the mayor of Mpls., Senator Wellstone,
Rep. Sabo, Walter Mondale, their partners, and the corporate media.

When Gore came out to speak--to the tacky blaring of "We Are Family," there
was about 15 of us protesters inside and along with other "non-protesters"
many soon began yelling stuff. I was yelling it's all "the same corporate
elite" and "what about the U'WA!?" Others yelled "stop killing the U'WA!"
and similar statements about Occidental Petroleum (OXY). Gore said "And
about you protesters out there I'll meet with you afterwards," telling us
to be quiet. Paul Wellstone, the sell-out, looked extremely dismayed. We
continued to cry out, since Gore has ignored the 20 or so previous
confrontations with him about the U'WA. When Gore claimed to want open
meetings with Bush and to challenge Bush, I yelled out, "We
challenge Gore about the U'WA!" The Gore campaigners quickly brought
signs to have people hold up all around us so that we were hidden by the
signs. But since we were right in camera view of Gore, the campaigner had
to then ask that the Gore signs be taken down because the view was blocked
but I raised Gore's book "The Earth in Balance," yelling "Read your Book!"
Two others held up a banner several times before getting ejected from the
VFW hall. When Gore walked out I got to the exit line, shook his hand
saying, "What about the U'WA? What about the meeting?" Media people
surrounded us and I heard Gore saying "I'd meet with you but you didn't
keep up your end of the bargain." Implying we had successfully disrupted
him. But these two media guys claimed he said he'd meet with us. They
were standing next to me and could hear Gore better as he left the room. I
thought, "we'll if they say so," so I quickly looked for the Gore
campaigners and the other protesters.

Soon after Gore's assistant came out with the secret service and asked us
to have one leader/spokesperson. She told us this meeting was highly
unprecedented, especially with so many of us. She allowed no media. We
refused to have a leader. We were told to remove jackets, bags, and
potential weapons and we were lead to a backroom to be scanned.

The Meeting with GORE about the U'WA

We decided that one of us would say a short introduction, stating that two
other people would make brief statements with the second person asking the
question. Having experience with corporate elite at the U of MN, I
predicted that he'd try to control the talk and fill us with
irrelevant information that ignored the issue. After being scanned by
secret service and led to a basement room where about 20 secret service
people stood, about 15 of us waited in a semicircle. Gore came out and
tried to shake our hands. He got to the second person, after shaking the
first hand, but the second refused to do so. So then our introduction
began.

Gore, after the first person mentioned the two other coming statements,
interrupted the introduction and tried to go into a long tirade about us,
just as we predicted! I interrupted him and told him to let us finish so
we can ask the question and then I began reading off his connections to
Oxy, as stated in the NY Times ad. He tried to cut me off before the last
connection but I insisted we should just have two more minutes. I
finished then the third person began to speak. She was also cut off by
Gore so I interjected and read, as we had planned to do, the quote from his
book about
the need to protect indigenous peoples.

The I asked him if he was going to divest or not? He laid into us about
how we didn't know what a trust was, how his mom was on life support,
how his family had debts, and how legally he couldn't do anything. I
pointed out that slavery was legal too and we stated that it wasn't just
his financial holdings but that he had alot of influence otherwise
especially since the US Aid to Colombia was coming to vote soon. He stated
the Occidental Navy Reserve privatization was an "open bid." Another
asked him if he knew about the Geneva Convention on Genocide. He argued
that the Environmental Minister supported the oil project and that he had
won the prestigious Goldman Environmental Award. He claimed it was
Colombia's choice to drill and that this will help offset their debt and
help stabilize their guerilla and drug problem. Another pointed out that
it's precisely because of that guerilla/drug problem that oil drilling is a
direct threat
to the U'WA. Another stated that Gore could pull strings and asked if Gore
has been to Colombia. He said he hadn't. She stated that she had been to
Colombia and she didn't know how anyone could trust government officials in
Colombia and that "you [Gore] would probably not be safe in Colombia."

Confronting Gore on Structural Issues of Corporate Capitalism

While he went on about free markets, democracy and the environment, another
person pointed out that the U'WA is a democratic government and how "nice"
that the colonizers gave back some of the land they stole--commenting on a
recent
expansion of U'WA territory that Gore referenced. "What about all the
democratic governments we've overthrown in Latin America?" I asked. He
named two democratic presidents from the 50s but said there were no recent
examples. I asked him, "What about Noreiga and Panama? Did you see the
documentary Panama Deception that was banned from PBS?" He went on about
Colombia being full of Narcotraffickers and guerrillas. I asked him,
"Don't you know about Professor McCoy's book on the CIA? Their complicity
with the global drug trade is well documented." (the secret service seemed
to get edgy about this remark). He stated he's been leading OAS mtgs. to
help promote democracy. I asked him why is it that there is a direct
correlation with increased U.S. aid and an increase in human rights
violations in Latin America. I asked why is it that Colombia is the
highest recipient of U.S. Aid and has become the number one abuser of human
rights.

BACK To the U'WA

He said he knew the U'WA chief. One of us asked did he think the Chief
liked him. Gore responded well I think so. A latina women stated to Gore
that they were her people, that she could speak for them and so why are
they planning to commit mass suicide? Gore asked is she was U'WA and she
said she was Native American and "shame on you Gore." He tried to counter
her and she commented he was saying lies. Another pointed out that his mom
would be retiring but will have $600 a month social security to live on [in
comparison to Gore's mom]. Another asked "Why can't you transfer the
stocks to another equally profitable company?" Another pointed out that if
he cares so much about the environment did he know that the equivalent of
ten Exxon Valdez oil spills have occurred in Colombia. Gore said that he
didn't know this. Another pointed out that the U'WA are people too and
just as valuable as his life even if he didn't think so. Also that the
U'WA's environment is connected to everyone's environment. Another asked
who had the power to move the stocks and Gore said the trustee did but that
the trustee was legally required to do otherwise--implying he was required
to maximize profits. I pointed out that as a graduate student at the
University we just worked to divest $1.5 million and that citizens are
sovereign not corporations. I stated that we have the right to revoke the
charter of corporations that continuously violate the public good.

Others urged him to have the trustee move the stocks and asked him if he
was going to make a public statement. He said we had brought up some
points he hadn't thought of but that we hope he takes in mind the
clarifications [sic.] he made and that the information we've been providing
incorrectly implies he owns personal stock. (but he never specifically
countered our information which states very clearly its family holdings).
Gore stated he decided 26 years ago to never have personal stocks so he
wouldn't have a conflict of interest. The secret service, getting quite
impatient with Gore being put on the defensive for so long, motioned for
him to leave. As he walked off we told him the issue was not going away
and that the suicide of the U'WA would be on his conscience.

My Impression of GORE

The researcher Hannah Ardent used a term, "the banality of evil." The
issue of the U'WA is only one of many that Gore could be confronted
with--the genocidal war-crime sanctions on Iraq come to mind as well. I
think Gore is evil: he tried to cut us off and manhandle us by berating us
with irrelevant information. He tried to push responsibility onto others
that have less power, he avoided the direct issue. I perceived a lust for
power and disdain for the truth. He hid in ignorance and kissed up to
corruption by trying to hold out his life-support mother as a shield. He
left a wake of cynicism as he left the room, while his presence was
disgusting maybe we got through to him and maybe this information will help
keep the pressure on!

For Further Information
see www.ran.org, www.amazonwatch.org or www.moles.org

AMAZON WATCH RAINFOREST ACTION NETWORK PROJECT UNDERGROUND

For Immediate Release March 6th, 2000

Contact: Stephen Kretzmann, 510-551-7953 or Atossa Soltani, 310-317-7045
Lauren Sullivan, 415-398-4404 or Danny Kennedy, 510-705-8981

Enviros Question Gore's Commitment in a N.Y. Times Ad
Expose V.P.'s "Deep Ties" to Occidental Petroleum
Gore Urged to Act in Defense of the U'wa People of Colombia

Escalating a campaign questioning Vice President Al Gore's environmental
commitment, environmental organizations today placed a full-page ad in
the west coast edition of the New York Times. The ad, whose headline
reads "Who is Al Gore? Environmental Champion or Petroleum Politician?
The U'wa people need to know" substantiates Gore's connections to
Occidental Petroleum and argues that the Vice President has a specific
responsibility to act on behalf of the U'wa people.

The U'wa, a remote Colombian tribe, are engaged in a tense standoff with
Los-Angeles based Occidental Petroleum (Oxy) over the drilling of the
Gibraltar 1 oil well. The U'wa, a deeply spiritual people who believe
that oil is the "blood of Mother Earth", have repeatedly stated that
they "are willing to die" to keep oil drilling off of their ancestral
lands. More than 2,500 local farmers, union members, and students have
joined thousands of U'wa and other indigenous peoples in non-violent
blockades and protests near the well site to stop Oxy's project. The
heavy military presence around the oil project has already led to
violence against peaceful indigenous peoples. In the last month, many
have been injured and at least three have died. The situation remains
very tense.

Gore has enjoyed the corporate sponsorship of Oxy throughout his
political career. He controls up to $500,000 in Oxy stocks and has
received $20,000 a year for almost 30 years from mining rights to his
land that Oxy never mined. Gore's father made a great deal of his wealth
while working for Oxy and its ex-chairman, Armand Hammer. Gore Sr. sat
on the Board of Oxy for twenty-eight years. Since Gore was elected Vice
President, Oxy Chairman Ray Irani has given more than $400,000 to the
Democratic Party. Furthermore, Gore's "reinventing government"
initiative resulted in the sale of the Elk Hills Naval Petroleum Reserve
to Occidental in 1998. The unprecedented closed bidding process was the
largest privatization of federal property in U.S. history, one that
tripled Occidental's U.S. oil reserves overnight.

Environmental and human rights leaders have been attempting to direct
the Vice President's attention to this issue for years. In March 1998,
the Amazon Coalition wrote the Vice President on this issue requesting
his assistance. There was no reply. A month later a full-page ad in the
New York Times generated hundreds of letters to Gore. Gore also met
briefly with the spokesman for the U'wa people, Berito Kuwaru'wa, after
the Indian chief received the 1998 Goldman Environmental Prize. Despite
repeated attempts, Gore has consistently ducked the issue by attempting
to both deny his connections to Oxy and claim political impotence.

In January, grassroots environmental activists from around the country
began targeting Gore at his campaign appearances. Eight were arrested at
a sit-in at Gore's campaign headquarters over the U'wa issue in
Manchester, New Hampshire. The Democratic debate at the Apollo Theatre
was briefly interrupted by protesters, and in Olympia Washington, U'wa
supporters reportedly drowned out Gore supporters. Just Saturday,
activists in Boston disrupted yet another campaign rally. In all,
organizers estimate that at least twenty-five campaign appearances over
the last 6 weeks have been marred by protests around the U'wa issue.
Activists continue to demand that Gore take action that results in an
immediate suspension of Oxy's project, and a significant reduction of
tension on the ground.

"Neither we, nor the U'wa, are going to go away", said Steve Kretzmann
of Amazon Watch. "As a professed champion of the environment, Gore has a
general moral obligation to take action in defense of the U'wa and their
homeland. More importantly, as someone with deep ties and access to
Occidental, Gore clearly has a specific duty to take action in this
case. We won't accept the excuse that he's powerless to stop this
situation. As Vice President of the United States, he has the power to
make a difference".

 

 

Edited March 21, 2019 by voidisyinyang

[windwalker]

2 minutes ago, voidisyinyang said:

I personally chewed out Vice President Al Gore in the basement of the VFW by Mall of America - he flew away in his helicopter with his 12 secret service men. I'll get you the details..

 

Good,  he with others are part of the problem. 

We seem to have very different view points on 

what is happening, why, and what should be done.

 

I do enjoy reading some of things you've posted 

even though do not agree with many of conclusions. 

[voidisyinyang]

2 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

Good,  he with others are part of the problem. 

We seem to have very different view points on 

what is happening, why, and what should be done.

 

I do enjoy reading some of things you've posted 

even though do not agree with many of conclusions. 

You ever been to Alaska? I lived there for 6 months back in 1990.

I'm not sure "enjoying" abrupt global warming is what the Alaskans are doing.

https://www.anchoragepress.com/lack-of-ice-and-climate-change-creating-fear-in-alaska/article_aae8b78e-49e7-11e9-b9d7-e3dbcb42f1e3.html

Or is this a liberal-Tard conspiracy fake news story?

Quote

 

A serious subsistence food shortage has hit some coastal villages in the high Arctic regions in Alaska leaving villagers to wonder how they will respond to a brand new challenge – the fast disappearance of their hunting grounds by a lack of sea ice.

“It’s getting scary,” one tribal leader said.

 

So what's your take on this? Just local weather?

Quote

“The ice went out way too early this year — maybe a month or two ago; like last year, too,” he said. “Ice around the island used to be 15-20 feet thick all winter. Now, it’s about 3-feet to 5-feet thick at the most. There’s no heavy ice like there used to be when I was small.”

 

[voidisyinyang]

6 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

Good,  he with others are part of the problem. 

We seem to have very different view points on 

what is happening, why, and what should be done.

 

I do enjoy reading some of things you've posted 

even though do not agree with many of conclusions. 

 

On 3/17/2019 at 9:27 AM, windwalker said:

 

to add 

 

 

one ends getting stupid comments like this revealing their true nature instead of a rational discussion, and yet claiming to understand or know whats going on....In the end is it about winning  

 

 

 

The real problem is not climate change its human population which as the climate changes, it will effect the population.

 

era                life expectancy 

Paleolithic

33

 

 

2014 world average[32]

71.5

 

They don't seem to understand its modern tech that enables longer life for most. As of yet there is no viable alternative for fossil fuels that allow it to be so.   

 

one who is very vocal about the "problem"

 

"Gore has been involved with environmental issues since 1976, when as a freshman congressman, he held the "first congressional hearings on the climate change, and co-sponsor[ed] hearings on toxic waste and global warming."[60][61] He continued to speak on the topic throughout the 1980s,[62] and is still prevalent in the environmental community. He was known as one of the Atari Democrats, later called the "Democrats' Greens, politicians who see issues like clean air, clean water and global warming as the key to future victories for their party."[63][212]"

 

 

 

"

Gore’s mansion, located in the posh Belle Meade area of Nashville, consumes more electricity every month than the average American household uses in an entire year, according to the Nashville Electric
Service (NES)

.

In his documentary, the former Vice President calls on Americans to conserve energy by reducing electricity consumption at home.

The average household in America consumes 10,656 kilowatt-hours (kWh) per year, according to the Department of Energy. In 2006, Gore devoured nearly 221,000 kWh – more than 20 times the national average."

 

 

interesting they want others to conserve asking others to conserve or do with out while they enjoy

what they ask others to do with out.

.

Find it amusing.   Guess he needs a big house,,,,maybe everyone should have a big house....

 

 

  

  

Stronger Extinction Alert

 

The February 2019 temperature is in line with an earlier analysis that 2019 could be 1.85°C above preindustrial and that a rapid temperature rise may take place over the next few years, as illustrated by the image on the right.

Let's walk through the steps once more. The combination image below shows that the February 2019 temperature was 0.93°C above a 1951-1980 baseline (left) and 1.21°C above a 1885-1915 baseline (right), a difference of 0.28°C.

In other words, when using a baseline that is centered around 1900, the data should be adjusted by 0.28°C. In the image below, the gold graph uses 1951-1980 as baseline and two linear trend are added, one using data starting in 1880 (gold) and one using data starting in 1900 (blue).

 

 

Both linear trends are out of line with the recent temperature rise, the gold trend even more so than the blue trend, illustrating that starting a linear trend from an earlier year can make an analysis worse.

As said, if we want to use a baseline that is centered around 1900, the data should be adjusted by 0.28°C, and this is what the green graph does. A 4th-order polynomial trend is added that lines up perfectly with zero at the year 1900.

Further adjustment is needed for a 1750 baseline, which better reflects preindustrial as in the Paris Agreement. As discussed in an earlier post, this could result in an additional adjustment of 0.3°C.

Furthermore, have another look at above maps. Much of the extreme anomalies are in line with changes to the Jet Stream, as also illustrated by the insert. More cold air escaping the Arctic and more warm air entering the Arctic are both speeding up Arctic warming. In the map on the right, much of the Arctic is left grey, since no data are available for the Arctic around 1900, but the Arctic should not be left out of the picture and adding a further 0.1°C adjustment seems appropriate to better include the Arctic.

Finally, the NASA temperatures for oceans are the surface temperatures of the water, but it makes more sense to use air temperatures close to the water, which likely adds a further 0.1°C. This adds up a total adjustment of 0.78°C as applied in the red graph, which also has an 8th-order polynomial trend added.

Trend analysis that uses data going back many years can only be part of the picture; it's also important to anticipate changes that could occur in the near future. When taking the many feedbacks, tipping points and further warming elements more fully into account, the temperature could rise even more strongly than is pictured in the red trend in the image at the top and there could be an 18°C rise by the year 2026. In the graph at the top, the vertical axis is cut off at 5°C, since life on Earth will already have disappeared by then (see box on the right).

 

 

[ from an earlier post ]

The situation is dire and calls for comprehensive and effective action, as described at the Climate Plan.


Links

• Extinction Alert
https://arctic-news.blogspot.com/2019/02/extinction-alert.html

• Co-extinctions annihilate planetary life during extreme environmental change, by Giovanni Strona and Corey Bradshaw (2018)
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-35068-1

• How much warming have humans caused?
https://arctic-news.blogspot.com/2016/05/how-much-warming-have-humans-caused.html

• Extinction
https://arctic-news.blogspot.com/p/extinction.html

• A rise of 18°C or 32.4°F by 2026?
https://arctic-news.blogspot.com/2019/02/a-rise-of-18c-or-324f-by-2026.html

• Climate Plan
https://arctic-news.blogspot.com/p/climateplan.html

 

http://arctic-news.blogspot.com/2019/03/stronger-extinction-alert.html

[windwalker]

It is strange isn't it.

 

Quote

When the hype subsides the facts catch up. In 2015, the UK Daily Telegraph reported:

 

"Two events last week brought yet further twists to one of the longest-running farces of our modern world. One was the revelation by the European Space Agency that in 2013 and 2014, after years when the volume of Arctic ice had been diminishing, it increased again by as much as 33 percent.

 

The other was that Canadian scientists studying the effect of climate change on Arctic ice from an icebreaker had to suspend their research, when their vessel was called to the aid of other ships trapped in the thickest summer ice seen in Hudson Bay for 20 years."

https://tylerpaper.com/climate-change-predictions-from-haven-t-held-true/article_89557ddd-2a05-51e3-adf9-d324895dcbd5.html

 

I guess they'er just more shills...as you and some others like to say....

 

Quote

This page lists climate science and climate impact claims that have either not been proven, or have had the claim modified, moved, or expanded to protect the claimant from having to admit the original claim was wrong.  https://wattsupwiththat.com/climate-fail-files/

 

 

Others are always asking me to read things, including you..how about reading some of this and rebutting  it.

In a couple of paragraphs

 

Quote

The autumns of 1997 and 1998 were two of the warmest seasons on record. In both years, hunters reported poor seal hunting because of diminishing sea ice.  https://nsidc.org/cryosphere/seaice/environment/indigenous_impacts.html

 

 

Quote

Rankin Inlet, Nunavut gets cold in the winter. Located on the northwestern shore of the Hudson Bay at 62 degrees north and between Chesterfield Inlet and Arviat, the town is definitely in a remote yet exposed region. Weather is just a part of life and recently the weather has been colder than cold.

 

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/02/12/arctic-chill-at-85f-below-zero-so-cold-eskimos-advised-to-stay-inside/

 

 

In answer to your question never been to alaska, but have trained and lived in areas while in the military that were below zero for most of the time in the winter.   Cold enough that if one didn't pay attention the cold would take advantage of this very quickly...not good.

 

Habitats change, people or humankind adapt or die....whats the problem?

 

 

The main problem is really one of population.   

More people, more food, more resources needed. 

 

The technology that allows for this to happen is based on fossil fuels. 

Less people, less need or reduced usage of the energy sources currently used. 

Robotics will solve a lot of the problems for amount of people needed. 

 

 

 

Edited March 21, 2019 by windwalker

[ralis]

8 minutes ago, windwalker said:

It is strange isn't it.

 

https://tylerpaper.com/climate-change-predictions-from-haven-t-held-true/article_89557ddd-2a05-51e3-adf9-d324895dcbd5.html

 

I guess they'er just more shills...as you and some others like to say....

 

 

 

Others are always asking me to read things, including you..how about reading some of this and rebutting  it.

In a couple of paragraphs

 

 

 

 

 

In answer to your question never been to alaska, but have trained and lived in areas while in the military that were below zero for most of the time in the winter.   Cold enough that if one didn't pay attention the cold would take advantage of this very quickly...not good.

 

Habitats change, people or humankind adapt or die....whats the problem?

 

 

The main problem is really one of population.   

More people, more food, more resources needed. 

 

The technology that allows for this to happen is based on fossil fuels. 

Less people, less need or reduced usage of the energy sources currently used. 

Robotics will solve a lot of the problems for amount of people needed. 

 

 

 

 

He already has debunked everything you have or will post. The ideology that informs your narrative is social-Darwinist in scope which has been refuted by research in biological systems or the interdependence of all life in the biosphere. Survival of the fittest as proposed by Herbert Spencer was an erroneous hypothesis.. Why? Species evolve as a group based on altruism and other social group interactions. 

[windwalker]

8 minutes ago, ralis said:

He already has debunked everything you have or will post.

 

he and you have posted view points 

which for some reason you both feel outweigh 

other view points.

 

he and you might be shills,  as you and he like to label

others.  

 

 

[ralis]

8 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

he and you have posted view points 

which for some reason you both feel outweigh 

other view points.

 

he and you might be shills,  as you and he like to label

others.  

 

 

 

Scientific research is not based on opinion or viewpoints. Have you been to college or studied any science? I think you haven’t been exposed to any of the hard sciences including math?

[windwalker]

39 minutes ago, ralis said:

 

Scientific research is not based on opinion or viewpoints. Have you been to college or studied any science? I think you haven’t been exposed to any of the hard sciences including math?

 

there ya go 

 

and I think you should take your meds.

its time....you and he are just view points on the net in a discussion

in which you both like to cut and past large amounts of data to shift through 

maybe thinking more is better....when with less iits more. 

 

If you both understood what you were posting it should be easy to say it in  paragraph  or so,

so that anyone could understand it.   

 

But you don't,  you both come up with all others are incorrect "shills" 

we have the truth.     Not buying it.....

Edited March 21, 2019 by windwalker

[voidisyinyang]

1 hour ago, windwalker said:

It is strange isn't it.

 

https://tylerpaper.com/climate-change-predictions-from-haven-t-held-true/article_89557ddd-2a05-51e3-adf9-d324895dcbd5.html

 

I guess they'er just more shills...as you and some others like to say....

 

 

You can read a whole forum devoted to scientists discussing arctic sea ice loss

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php?board=3.0

Enjoy the real scientists - discussing in detail - what your closed off shill websites are desperately trying to ignore.

Let's take a gander shall we?

 

OK that was clicking on the "image of the day."

Now I click on the "sea ice and extent" thread.

Quote

JAXA Global Sea Ice Extent as at 16 March 2019 :-  17,112,765  km2

Global Sea Ice Extent on this day is 3rd lowest, above 2017 & 2006. Unusual extent loss for a second day.

- extent loss on this day 15k, 94k less than the average gain of 79 k on this day,
- extent gain from minimum to date is 860k, 750k (46%) less than the average gain of 1,610k,
-on average 17.8% of extent gain done and 233 days to maximum ( 4-Nov),
- last 10 years average remaining extent gain would give a maximum of 24.84 million km2,  1,205 k more than the record low max of 2016.

 

See all you have to do is WANDER off the SHILL sites - into some real science sites and PRESTO! abrupt global warming is more than real.

OK are we having fun yet? Let's click on another thread....

 

 

OK so that was the "pinned" sea ice extent thread.

 

Jim Hunt on March 20, 2019, 03:06:33 PM

After flatlining for a while Arctic sea ice area has fallen off the proverbial cliff over the last few days:

 

 

[ralis]

36 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

there ya go 

 

and I think you should take your meds.

its time....you and he are just view points on the net in a discussion

in which you both like to cut and past large amounts of data to shift through 

maybe thinking more is better....when it be much better with less is more. 

 

If you both understood what you were posting it should be easy to say it in  paragraph  or so,

so that anyone could understand it.   

 

But you don't,  you both come up with all others are incorrect "shills" 

we have the truth.     Not buying it.....

 

This is your response given that you are in over your head in this discussion and accusing me of being off medication. Where did you come up with that one? Obviously you haven't read Voids post and may not even understand what he has been writing about.

Edited March 21, 2019 by ralis

[windwalker]

3 minutes ago, ralis said:

 

This is your response given that you are in over your head in this discussion and accusing me of being off medication. Obviously you haven't read Voids post and may not even understand what he has been writing about.

 

 

 

did ask him to refute some things,  he has yet to reply.

maybe you can reply for him...give it a try.....

Edited March 21, 2019 by windwalker

[ralis]

1 minute ago, voidisyinyang said:

You can read a whole forum devoted to scientists discussing arctic sea ice loss

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php?board=3.0

Enjoy the real scientists - discussing in detail - what your closed off shill websites are desperately trying to ignore.

Let's take a gander shall we?

 

OK that was clicking on the "image of the day."

Now I click on the "sea ice and extent" thread.

 

See all you have to do is WANDER off the SHILL sites - into some real science sites and PRESTO! abrupt global warming is more than real.

OK are we having fun yet? Let's click on another thread....

 

 

OK so that was the "pinned" sea ice extent thread.

 

Jim Hunt on March 20, 2019, 03:06:33 PM

After flatlining for a while Arctic sea ice area has fallen off the proverbial cliff over the last few days:

 

 

 

Well stated!

[ralis]

3 minutes ago, windwalker said:

 

 

 

did ask him to refute some things,  he has yet to reply.

maybe you can reply for him...give it a try.....

 

He has responded. Read it or must we teach how to read a graph?

[windwalker]

21 minutes ago, ralis said:

 

He has responded. Read it or must we teach how to read a graph?

 

Do I need to remind you of history...

 

Quote

Twelve thousand years ago, the great ice sheets retreated at the beginning of the latest interglacial – the Flandrian – allowing humans to return to northern latitudes.

 

This period has been relatively warm, and the climate relatively stable, although it has been slightly colder than the last interglacial, the Eemian, and sea levels are currently at least 3 metres lower – differences that are being closely scrutinised by researchers keen to understand how our climate will develop.

 

But this respite from the ice is likely to prove short-lived, at least in geological terms. Human effects on the climate notwithstanding, the cycle will continue to turn, the hothouse period will some day come to an end – and the ice sheets will descend again

 

[voidisyinyang]

20 hours ago, windwalker said:

 

Do I need to remind you of history...

 

 

History is not "rate of change"

Quote

“Global warming triggered by the massive release of carbon dioxide may be catastrophic, but the release of methane from hydrate [its frozen state] may be apocalyptic.

https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/earth-permian-mass-extinction-apocalypse-warning-climate-change-frozen-methane-a7648006.html

Quote

 

“The emission of carbon dioxide from volcanic deposits may have started the world onto the road of mass extinction, but it was the release of methane from shelf sediments and permafrost hydrates that was the ultimate cause for the catastrophic biotic event at the end Permian,” the researchers added.

Professor Peter Wadhams, head of the Polar Ocean Physics Group at Cambridge University, suggested a major methane pulse was possible.

However he said this would be “maybe not apocalyptic, but catastrophic”.

“If there were a large methane release, which is now possible because of the instability of the methane hydrates underneath the Arctic continental shelves, the off-shore waters, that could quite easily give rise to a very large pulse,” Professor Wadhams said.

 

Quote

 

He was one of the authors of a paper in the journal Nature, which suggested it was possible for a truly vast amount of frozen methane to be released over just 10 years – a blink of an eye in geological terms.

“We were concerned if there were a 50 gigatonne release, about eight per cent of the methane in the hydrates, that would give an immediate 0.6°C of global warming, which is a very large pulse indeed,” Professor Wadhams said.

“That modern threat is very real and very serious and has been disregarded a lot by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change … I feel strongly about it.”

 

Earth's worst-ever mass extinction of life holds 'apocalyptic' warning about climate change, say scientists

 

Some 250 million years ago, runaway global warming saw the planet's average temperature hit 29 degrees Celsius, compared to about 15C today